Checking to see how much interest in low cost $250 to $350 F16 throttle

[Osita]

Hey everyone, my team is thinking of making this throttle already but we plan to do it some time in the future... but if enough people want it now I could probably get this project started more quickly. So this is just a check to see how many of you are interested in this product at this price.

 

 

It will be $250 to $350 and we will try to make that including the cost to send it, but maybe depends on where you live. We don't know much about the EU VAT law, so we might have to add something for VAT in your country if we are told by your govt that we have to do that.

 

 

Some things to know:

 

 

1. It's planned to make it very strong and work very well.

 

 

2. Plan to have proper detents (using sensors to track motion of the lever)

 

 

3. It will be made in Thailand

 

 

4. It might not be a perfect 100% replica but much better than the cheap Thrustmaster and Saitek single lever throttles.

 

 

5. Having said that at point 4, we will still make as much effort as reasonable to make it look authentic while keeping it "affordable" (that very much depends on your circumstances if it is really affordable or not, but we try!).

 

 

If there would be about 75 to 100 positive responses it's probably enough that I can get this project started more early than planned. But please be sincere in your replies. If you really would not like to have it, that is also useful information.

 

 

 

Thanks!!!!

[Fusedspine33]

There is always interest in quality peripherals and an absence of new throttles for the F-16, F-14 and Harrier. I would like to have/purchase all three with a common sized base.

 

Hall sensors and quality switches are high on many folks list of must haves.

 

Can't wait to see what you create.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[RogueSqdn]

I've had to do so much tedious maintenance on Cougar throttles through the years, and I'd love to be rid of it. Count me in.

[punk]

There is always interest in quality peripherals and an absence of new throttles for the F-16, F-14 and Harrier. I would like to have/purchase all three with a common sized base.

 

Hall sensors and quality switches are high on many folks list of must haves.

 

Can't wait to see what you create.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Would be nice to see them fit the standard 5.75" panel space minus the dezus rails - so a little larger than the panels, at least for an F-14 throttle. I would have to dig out my A model throttle quadrant for exact dimensions. A larger, detachable base plate is okay, but I would want to add it to a side console. Probably unrealistic, I know. $.02

[ebenitez]

+1 for me. It looks promising

 

 

Enviado desde mi RMX2020 mediante Tapatalk

[tugais]

Hey everyone, my team is thinking of making this throttle already but we plan to do it some time in the future... but if enough people want it now I could probably get this project started more quickly. So this is just a check to see how many of you are interested in this product at this price.[…]

 

Hi,

 

Would you introduce your team and your past and present projects/products so people might know you a little bit more and decide if they would commit to your Viper throttle ? Thank you.

[FuriousFingers]

Super interested. Especially so if a few discrete controls were added so the throttle could be used for more aircraft in general.

Some thoughts:

1.Pinkie lever / button to use as a modifier switch - must be easy to reach.

2.a rotary switch around the cursor enable and control - to be used as a mode switch or as a small f14 grip style weapon selector.

3. man range/uncaged is turned into a 5-way hat + a ring knob for the man range function.

 

This should largely maintain the look while adding an additional hat + rotary switch + modifier.

 

Would love to own this at any price level (collector’s edition) if it has the above + a built in detent mechanism without using a large external guide rail.

Edited September 27, 2020 by FuriousFingers

[webweaver40]

Build it and they will come

 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[horus-DCS]

Sure I’m interested. Do you have any mockups?

 

 

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[Osita]

We don't have any mock-ups of it yet because it's really at the moment just something our principle engineer conceptualized pretty much on the spot when we were in a meeting on something else related to our A-10 project.

 

 

It got mentioned how TM has all these good products for A-10 and had stopped making the viper throttle once the A-10 was so popular, which is disappointing.

 

 

 

Then our PE says something about being sure that we can make a "fairly decent" replica of the viper throttle for low cost.

 

 

So that is one of the projects we penciled in for consideration in a year or two after we finish work on the A-10 and JAS-39... but if a lot of people want this F-16 throttle, we could justify bringing that project forward more quickly. I just have to prove there's a reasonable market for it.

 

 

For reference see https://photos.app.goo.gl/Fb6yHoiX2SxKuMWz5 which is an early stage prototype of a CDU we're developing now for our A-10 project. It is different from other products available now because it has its own dedicated PC that will be mounted under it, so an all in one unit (which also has full computer functionality). We did not design this one for selling though, because we think it would be too expensive to offer for sale because of the PC.

 

 

 

But again, if people will be interested, just need to let me know. We also are planning to make A320 style MCDU.

 

 

I know what is shown in the pic is not perfect, but it's just an early prototype. Also notice we are using 16:9 screen instead of 4:3 just because it's a lot simpler and because it actually gives a bit more room for the display, and the display can be set to a higher resolution than the real thing (full HD) for better clarity.

 

 

And further down the track, we'll be making functioning HUD kit for F-16, A-10, F/A-18, F-14, and maybe some others. Again that's intended mostly for our own internal needs and not for selling because everyone is using VR now. We might sell them if people ask. Expensive also because of the special glass they need to have.

[Osita]

Well it is less than one day since this poll was started and already we're 20% of the way to our goal of 100 positive responses, so it is looking good! Thanks to everyone who is voting, even the negative responses, because it helps a lot.

[Osita]

I added a new image to the shared set (https://photos.app.goo.gl/Fb6yHoiX2SxKuMWz5) showing one of the challenges in the design, which is that we need to keep the left and right edges free of bulk so it can be easily added to a physical cockpit.

 

 

One possible idea is to integrate the EPU, ELEC, JET START, and Manual Pitch panels with the throttle into one big unit a-la-ThrustMaster Hog HOTAS, but some concern that this will make the whole thing too big.

 

 

If you have any thoughts, feel free to share. My feeling is that for pit builders having all those additional panels added is just going to save them a lot of time and frustration, but for ordinary desktop users, where are they going to fit all that hardware?

[RogueSqdn]

After looking at that, my initial question is how long of a throttle arm are you actually talking about making?

 

If you’re planning on putting the panels underneath it’ll have to be a lot longer than the Cougar.

 

If you’re going for realism it’ll have to be too long for anyone without a full cockpit (and likely too long for those in between (like myself with a Monstertech cockpit).

 

I think the happy medium should be to make one around the middle, having a throttle arm long enough for switch panels underneath but no so long it inhibits desktop and cockpit usage. Perhaps something that can be split into two pieces like the Winwing throttle and panel. That way, anyone who wants to integrate it into a full cockpit can detach the grip and integrate it into their own longer throttle arm.

 

Of course I could probably adapt my cockpit to use a full throttle arm, but it would likely mean losing use of my left armrest.

 

 

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[Osita]

If you’re planning on putting the panels underneath it’ll have to be a lot longer than the Cougar.

 

 

For sure, the Cougar could rightfully be categorized as a "realistic toy".

 

 

 

If you’re going for realism it’ll have to be too long for anyone without a full cockpit (and likely too long for those in between (like myself with a Monstertech cockpit).

 

I think the happy medium should be to make one around the middle, having a throttle arm long enough for switch panels underneath but no so long it inhibits desktop and cockpit usage. Perhaps something that can be split into two pieces like the Winwing throttle and panel. That way, anyone who wants to integrate it into a full cockpit can detach the grip and integrate it into their own longer throttle arm.

 

 

As we're mostly making this for our own use (as a training provider to the military and airlines) we want to make it as realistic as possible for ourselves, but we'll try to figure out what will work best for consumers who just want something to have fun with.

 

 

Because of that, I would appreciate your input on what you'd consider perfect, and we can go from there.

 

 

Another option, which again might affect the cost, is that we could look at making interchangeable arms, so you could unbolt it from the base and detach the grip, and then swap to the right size for your rig.

 

 

 

 

Of course I could probably adapt my cockpit to use a full throttle arm, but it would likely mean losing use of my left armrest.

 

 

But then where will you put your drinks?

 

 

No, in seriousness, I totally get what you mean and we'll have to explore the possibilities. I believe that is where we are a bit different from those who mass produce stuff for the consumer market... we don't try to force our own ideas, we are open to anyone's ideas if they will help. And we don't focus on what's not possible, but instead what can be made possible!

 

 

Thanks for your questions, and more questions or suggestions are certainly welcome.

[Mars Exulte]

I seriously doubt you're going to make anything ''strong that works very well'' for $200-300. The prices of other throttles aren't random or based in greed )

[Bob_Bushman]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, or suggested.

 

But I wouldn't mind just having the grip and the main axis, and forego any additional buttons on the base.

 

I have a dual throttle with buttons already, also there are plenty ways to get button units either throug diy or something else.

 

Or you can offer a button box entirely as an optional addon.

[javelina1]

I seriously doubt you're going to make anything ''strong that works very well'' for $200-300. The prices of other throttles aren't random or based in greed )

Interesting to see where this goes nonetheless.

[Lynchsl62]

I am definitely interested in acquiring a Realsimulator F16 throttle. The most important thing is the quality it must match the track record and innovation of Realsimulator and not just be a marketing pitch that dilutes the range.

 

 

With regard to additional flight panel buttons, etc - not interested as I will have this covered with add on button boxes, though a simple level for flaps and a separate level for gear would be accepted. I fully endorse the suggestion of a short/medium stroke that is compatible with MonsterTech desk mounts

[tugais]

I can't see why RealSimulator would damage their perfect record regarding very high quality products. Their product range comes at a cost but they always delivered great products.

[Osita]

I seriously doubt you're going to make anything ''strong that works very well'' for $200-300. The prices of other throttles aren't random or based in greed )

 

 

I can understand that point of view, but those guys have a completely different business model. Even though to you and me the sim community seems really large, for a manufacturer it's tiny. Compare to the market for blenders or microwave ovens and it's obvious. Or to put it another way, there's a much bigger market for toasters than for microwave ovens, so toasters are a lot cheaper even though the tech isn't significantly cheaper.

 

 

Working out pricing is a tough game. You need to look at volume of sales vs volume of production, then calculate that over the time between production and sales. It's cheaper to manufacture 100 items at a time than 1 item, but if you can only sell 1 per month it will take 100 months to get your targeted profit (which is a really long time). But 100 toasters can sell in one day.

 

 

Also there's a really big difference between the typical manufacturer's market, which involves a supply chain and wholesalers, and the market for niche products produced in low quantities and sold directly online.

 

 

So they are going to be pricing based on their estimates of how much they need to make to cover their costs and come out in front (keep in mind it's not just income - cost of materials, there are salaries, rents, interest, water and power bills, internet fees, marketing costs and much more). Their pricing needs to be high and also aggressive.

 

 

What is interesting is the home hobby guy who charges as much as the big vendors, because that guy doesn't have anywhere near their overheads. But the reason he needs to charge more is because he's got to make enough sales to make it worth his time to bother doing the job. He can't market on the scale that ThrustMaster or Saitek can do. It's more difficult for people to find him and his products. So he is also charging a high price, and I think that is fair, too.

 

 

But we have a totally different business model to either of these groups. We're not a traditional manufacturer in the sense that we mainly produce products for our own use and not for sale to the public. I changed policy on this because I noticed it's something people want and can't get.

 

 

What makes this different is firstly we don't rely on sales to make our profits, because we're primarily a service provider. Second, we don't have the same kind of overheads, because our business doesn't solely work in manufacturing, so even though we still have to pay for salaries and water and so on, those costs are covered by the main business activities and don't need to come out of any sales we make.

 

 

Super cool, right? It's a good situation for everyone because we can make the products you want, earn a little bit of pocket money, and we don't have to charge a King's ransom to make these things.

[Lt_Jaeger]

 

Super cool, right? It's a good situation for everyone because we can make the products you want, earn a little bit of pocket money, and we don't have to charge a King's ransom to make these things.

 

I need a F-14 simpit ;)

 

 

 

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[Osita]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, or suggested.

 

But I wouldn't mind just having the grip and the main axis, and forego any additional buttons on the base.

 

I have a dual throttle with buttons already, also there are plenty ways to get button units either throug diy or something else.

 

Or you can offer a button box entirely as an optional addon.

 

 

Hmm.... do you mean that you'd like something where you can disassemble your TM / Siatek / Virpil throttle base and connect the Viper stick?

 

 

That could be possible, but in this case there are some additional factors. The main one being the different shape and mechanism of the real thing (but for some users that's not a big factor). But it also means we can't include the sensor-based method that we intended.

 

 

Plus the controller card inside the TM or Virpil or whatever... it is set up to support certain buttons and switches, in some cases with a very precise number. If the number of buttons and switches we need is not supported by their card, then a lot of fiddling about will be required to get it working.

 

 

We definitely could convert the TM A-10 to F-14 or F-15 in this way though (but then again, so could you with a bit of 3D printing and a lot of stubborn determination). Not sure if there are any licensing restrictions that would make it illegal for us to make the F-14 or F-15 throttle grips for the ThrustMaster base, though. Have to check that. We don't want to annoy anyone.

[Osita]

I can't see why RealSimulator would damage their perfect record regarding very high quality products. Their product range comes at a cost but they always delivered great products.

 

 

I agree, RS seems to be reputable and has a lot of fans. I think the main issues for many people waiting are that there's no clear agenda, a lot of uncertainty, and concerns about high pricing.

 

 

If they produce their product it will be excellent, I am sure. But this thread isn't really for those who want to pay what RS charges. It specifically says low cost in the title, so that is the focus.... quality / cost = value.

 

 

What represents an acceptable "value" varies from person to person.

[sirrah]

Whenever/if my Cougar throttle dies, I would probably buy this new F-16 throttle.

 

But obviously if quality/price are reasonable

 

Also, I don't think I'll ever spend more than $350 for a single controller. (and honestly, I would be surprised if the quality and functionality as stated in the OP, can be done for under $350,-.. Happy to be proven wrong though :))

[Osita]

I need a F-14 simpit ;)

 

 

Strangely enough, we are going to be making these (2 seat version). But the cost is >$35,000 per item (not including taxes and shipping), so I don't exactly expect a line at the front door waiting to collect them.

 

 

But you will be welcome to come and play with ours once they are ready!