DCS: F-15C Poll

[Eagle7907]

I’d buy.


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[Wizard_03]

On 9/29/2021 at 2:54 AM, bies said:

 

F-15 overall is a museum tech designed ~55 years ago by our grandparents.

With requirements from totally different era, no supercruise, no RCS reduction, no internal weapon bay, no thrust vectoring, no IR signature reduction, previous generation era engines, late 1960s aerodynamics knowledge etc.

There is literally nothing "modern" in the F-15. During 1970s it was a super-fighter like an F-22 was 15 years ago.

 

It ruled the sky during the Cold War.

Then being replaced by the F-22 by 2000s (not completely because the only enemy able to threat their domination disappeared and budget shrinked drastically).

Today it's just an outdated cheap missile truck to release it's weapon and run when F-22 or F-35 guide them to the targets. (Or simply a way to keep Boeing company afloat during the crisis.)

 

Still the most fascinating aircraft, arguably the most successful jet fighter of the previous century. One of the last fighters having an opportunity to perform serious air combat in history, from late 1970s to early 1990s ~30-40 years ago.

 

While I agree with your post, I wouldn't call the F-15C outdated just yet. Yes the airframe is old, but all of the tactical systems are pretty much state of the art. And the airframe itself really hasn't been beaten by any other 4 or 4+ gen fighter with the exception of the eurofighter and possibly the Su-35 in some areas, mainly in the close in BFM department, but it's still equal or better in BVR to both of those air sovereignty fighters which is the relevant metric.

 

So with modern weapons and systems it's still a very credible threat to would be aggressors, that don't have fleets of 5th gen aircraft ready right now at this moment, not in development, not waiting for modern engines ect. ect.  and it looks like it's gonna stay that way until the 2040s. Because that's most air forces today, that the F-15 might fight. 

 

It still is the mainstay for US air defense. It's no longer the best of the best, and will become less and less relevant as time goes on for sure. But when they designed it they went all out so to speak and it payed off IMO. It's still difficult and costly to build an aircraft with it's performance even today in 2021. Let alone a 5th generation equivalent. 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Wizard_03

[bies]

20 minutes ago, Wizard_03 said:

Yes the airframe is old, but all of the tactical systems are pretty much state of the art. And the airframe itself really hasn't been beaten by any other 4 or 4+ gen fighter with the exception of the eurofighter and possibly the Su-35 in some areas, mainly in the close in BFM department, but it's still equal or better in BVR to both of those air sovereignty fighters which is the relevant metric.

 

I adore the legend of the Eagle and the aircraft itself and it makles me sad to be forced to be this guy, but Eurofighter with better kinematic performance, supercruise, better acceleration, climb, better supersonic and subsonic maneuverability, unstable design trim drag, carefree FBW flight control, smaller RCS, smaller IR signature, passive integrated with airframe advanced IR sensor etc. eats Eagle alive BVR and VVR. Let alone Meteor missile. It's not a shame for the Eagle since its production started in year 1972 with Vietnam war still going with Vietnam-era aerodynamics, engine, sensors knowledge.

 

The one and only reason F-15C is even still in service today is the fall of the Soviet empire - F-22 Raptor was ordered to replece F-15C,  1 to 1, with 700 airframes operational in early 2000s. The sole reason this hasn't been finished was the fall of the only real enemy with A/A capabilities. And F-22 vs F-15 is just another league in every department.

 

 

That being said personally i would prefer full fidelity F-15A or C over the Eurofighter in DCS.

Just not from the time when proud Eagle was only a cheap second grade substitute to the F-22. And having all the real air combat 20-30 years behind, just partolling an empty sky for decades without any real purpose.

F-15 A and C forging its legend during late 1970s to early 1990s against Syria and Iraq, when there was no AMRAAMs or secure datalinks. Operation Opera, Lebanon war, Bekaa Valley battle, operation Desert Storm when despite of the US advantage Eagles still were forced to dogfight MiG-25s and MiG-29 in close maneuver air combat.

 

(another thing is realism - all the electronic gizmos connected to its radar, EW suite, ECM, ECCM etc. which F-15 received post Desert Storm would be missing in DCS anyway being strictly classified or changed on purpose not to reveal how the real air combat would be fought)

[Wizard_03]

1 hour ago, bies said:

 

I adore the legend of the Eagle and the aircraft itself and it makles me sad to be forced to be this guy, but Eurofighter with better kinematic performance, supercruise, better acceleration, climb, better supersonic and subsonic maneuverability, unstable design trim drag, carefree FBW flight control, smaller RCS, smaller IR signature, passive integrated with airframe advanced IR sensor etc. eats Eagle alive BVR and VVR. Let alone Meteor missile. It's not a shame for the Eagle since its production started in year 1972 with Vietnam war still going with Vietnam-era aerodynamics, engine, sensors knowledge.

 

The one and only reason F-15C is even still in service today is the fall of the Soviet empire - F-22 Raptor was ordered to replece F-15C,  1 to 1, with 700 airframes operational in early 2000s. The sole reason this hasn't been finished was the fall of the only real enemy with A/A capabilities. And F-22 vs F-15 is just another league in every department.

Well you can't compare 4th to 5th gen and honestly in ever other aspect other then low observables the eurofighter is a 5th gen platform. So yeah it's hands down better, specifically in kinematics.

 

As far as sensors go, compared to other 4th gen fighters the current F-15Cs have AESA, IRST, and Link16 now. As well as a brand new EW suite among other things. So in that regard it's very competitive with other 4th gen aircraft and even some of the eurofighters stuff. The f-15ex even more so, With it's updated engines, and FBW.

 

And yes The F-22 was way overqualified for the threat picture of it's time, and it still is in a lot of ways. 

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Wizard_03

[henshao]

with first flight and introduction dates only 2-3 years apart, the Typhoon as powerful as it is, is more of an analogue of the Raptor. Typhoon is technically newer than AMRAAM, for reference

 

that being said, the fact the Eagle is even in the conversation with a Typhoon is testament enough. if charlie eagles ever got -229 engines the advantages would be narrowed further

[Wizard_03]

Let's switch gears for a second and talk about what ya'll would be willing to pay for DCS: F-15C

 

Now in my mind, since it is in fact a pure fighter with only unguided weapons available I think the pricing should be in 60 dollar US range, similar to the F-5E with the possibility of say 10 bucks off if you own the FC3 version. 

 

For that I would expect a full fidelity module, overhauled textures for the external model and a new cockpit matching current DCS standards. And possibly the inclusion of CFTs as an option in the ME with the associate change in the FM. Now if they decide to give us two versions, which I think would be ideal, one cold war, and one ultra modern. I think the price should be around where the F-14 is or higher in 80 to 100 us dollar range. Since that would require the development of new weapons and systems such as HMD and the inclusion of sniper pod. 

 

How does that sound? 

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Wizard_03

[Exorcet]

5 minutes ago, Wizard_03 said:

Let's switch gears for a second and talk about what ya'll would be willing to pay for DCS: F-15C

 

Now in my mind, since it is in fact a pure fighter with only unguided weapons available I think the pricing should be in 60 dollar US range, similar to the F-5E with the possibility of say 10 bucks off if you own the FC3 version.

 

 

Seems hard to compare the F-5 to the F-15. The Eagle is much more advanced, and I think even the A/C has AG radar.

 

Anyway if it costs as much as the F-14 so be it, still worth it. Especially if it goes to the same level of detail (imperfect RWR and other sensors, visual and sound effects, maybe some kind of Jester like AI for wingmen, etc)

[Wizard_03]

28 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

Seems hard to compare the F-5 to the F-15. The Eagle is much more advanced, and I think even the A/C has AG radar.

 

Anyway if it costs as much as the F-14 so be it, still worth it. Especially if it goes to the same level of detail (imperfect RWR and other sensors, visual and sound effects, maybe some kind of Jester like AI for wingmen, etc)

I mean it is more advanced but the F-5 of course but the F-5 was created from scratch a FF F-15C would have pretty large head start on development because of FC3. There's also playability, Really the only thing the F-15 offers from, a pure gameplay perspective, over the F-5E is BVR. The price, I think should reflect that. 

 

Your buying a fighter only, that you can strap bombs too, just like the F-5, or F-86 not a multirole or ground attack aircraft with a bunch of precision ordinance and sensors that need to modeled. All of which takes much more time and money for ED. 

[bies]

10 hours ago, Wizard_03 said:

Your buying a fighter only, that you can strap bombs too, just like the F-5, or F-86 not a multirole or ground attack aircraft with a bunch of precision ordinance and sensors that need to modeled. All of which takes much more time and money for ED. 

 

True. Even making i.e. F-16C from ~Desert Storm would take about half of the time compared to F-16C from 2007.

F/A-18C in kind of 1980s/Desert Storm standard was released as early access after 2 years (Flight Model, 3D external model, fully interactive 3D cockpit, Sparrow, SIdewinder, Gun, dumb bombs CCIP/CCRP, unguided rockets, besic guided munitions, INS and TACAN navigation, carrier operations etc).

Next 2-3 years was just adding 2000s weapons and avionics to it like JHMCS, GPS navigation and GPS guided munition, datalink, AMRAAM, AIM-9X, targeting pod etc.

Edited October 7, 2021 by bies

[Wizard_03]

The other thing we need to talk about is an official map to go along with the module. 

 

I'm thinking it HAS to be western Europe. Specifically Germany with Rammstein is it's "centerpiece" airbase. This would allow real cold war scenarios and has the add benefit of conversion into a 1944 WW2 map with a bunch of place/period correct flyable assets already in game  

6 minutes ago, gortex said:

 

You don't sound like a fan of the aircraft, or you don't enjoy air-to-air as much as some of us. 

I love the F-15 it's prolly my favorite aircraft of all time, but we have to give ed credit where credit is due. The complexity of the hornet and viper are on another level. So naturally the F-15 doesn't have all the features and playability that those jets offer. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Wizard_03

[henshao]

remember only the USAF operates the F-15C, not Israel or Saudi Arabia, they never bomb or anything...

 

 

USAF before the mudhen never bombed with f-15c either...

 

[Eagle7907]

I’d pay up to $99USD. But that’s just me.


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[AvgeekJoe]

Hope this comes to fruition.  Really like the idea of reenacting wild Israeli Air Force missions and Operation Desert Storm in a full fidelity F-15C... especially as the I/E model is coming online.

Edited October 10, 2021 by AvgeekJoe
Added models of F-15

[killkenny1]

On 10/7/2021 at 10:52 PM, Eagle7907 said:

I’d pay up to $99USD. But that’s just me.


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Pathetic...

 

You want to know what real desperation is to get your favorite combat jet in DCS?

I would literally pay 1000 Euros to get a Su-27 into DCS. Any variant, don't give a crap. I just need a full fidelity Su-27. Plz ED.

Edited October 10, 2021 by killkenny1

[upyr1]

This is an F-15A cockpit but it has an interesting switch A-G select can some one comment on that?

 

[Hummingbird]

I think anyone who downright wouldn't like a full fidelity F-15 is abit crae crae... imho

Edited November 7, 2021 by Hummingbird

[Northstar98]

10 hours ago, upyr1 said:

This is an F-15A cockpit but it has an interesting switch A-G select can some one comment on that?

[snip]

Looks like a station/fusing selector?

[upyr1]

2 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Looks like a station/fusing selector?

according to atricles posted by this guy https://www.quora.com/profile/Balázs-Molnár-28 on quora the F-15A through C do have an A 2 G mode which the USAF simply never utlized. They are limited to CCIP and CCRP bombing. He posted these in an exchange with a jerk claiming to be a former P&W employee 

[USA_Recon]

On 12/5/2020 at 10:46 PM, Wizard_03 said:

It's in one of Wags interviews don't remember which one 

Most disappointing thing I’ve heard - guess FC3 was a bust for ED then ?  

[Eagle7907]

I don’t think it was or is a bust. They still make money from people who don’t really desire to study an airplane and just want to shoot things. I think it’s a matter of being allowed to do it, for what ever the reasons may be. Some argue that it’s because of it’s single role. Well, that’s debatable. Look at the F-14. Very successful module. Most fly it just for the A/A capabilities.

I seriously think it’s because of some limitation outside of ED that is stopping this from happening and FC3 has nothing to do with it.


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[upyr1]

On 11/6/2021 at 10:03 PM, Hummingbird said:

I think anyone who downright wouldn't like a full fidelity F-15 is abit crae crae... imho

 

It will be awesome crazy. I think it would be a good follow up to the F-15E by Razbam 

[Wizard_03]

On 12/25/2021 at 1:23 PM, Eagle7907 said:

I don’t think it was or is a bust. They still make money from people who don’t really desire to study an airplane and just want to shoot things. I think it’s a matter of being allowed to do it, for what ever the reasons may be. Some argue that it’s because of it’s single role. Well, that’s debatable. Look at the F-14. Very successful module. Most fly it just for the A/A capabilities.

I seriously think it’s because of some limitation outside of ED that is stopping this from happening and FC3 has nothing to do with it.


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Thing about the F-14 is you also have carrier ops, two seats, and a significant A2G PGM capacity. In addition to A2A and fleet Defense. 

 

A FF USAF/ANG F-15C won't have nearly as much "gameplay" potential. Even from an AA perspective the F-15C is much more specialized. It's the best, and it's only the best. That may not be enough for ED, it is for me.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Wizard_03

[MstrCmdr]

Guys, wondering if anyone has information on this.  The current F-15C is basically LOMAC and not a PFM.  In the AH-64D release manual on Page 15 there is a picture with the F-15C module icon at the bottom of the main menu that says "beta."  Anybody know if the F-15C is gonna be PFM finally?

[MstrCmdr]

53 minutes ago, ПТНПНХ said:

The F-15C is a PFM.

I thought you weren't able to click around and it was a basic LOMAC aircraft?  At least on mine you can't do much other than the basics and no clicky cockpit.

Anyways some other guys told me that the standalone F-15C, not the FC3 bundle, has always had that at the bottom.  I thought we were gonna get a full fidelity F-15C.

[Flappie]

"PFM" = Professionnal Flight Model

You're talking about SSM/ASM. See here: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support/faq/general/

Edited March 6, 2022 by Flappie