BS3 still happening?

[Fri13]

16 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

ED are supposedly overhauling everything IR (though details are kinda absent), but it includes improvements to IR missiles, maybe they'll improve the fidelity of track modes on TGPs - a similar thing could be done for Shkval. Obviously providing this is actually the case.

 

A properly done contrast detection system would be usable almost everywhere. You can use it to simulate almost everything in the DCS even at the background for the radars using raytracing and chaff as reflector. For the IR missiles it is easier as raytracing is not required but can be used directly with the chaff. 

 

All the lasers are light beamers, you get smoke and rest act as reflectors and as well as "black hole" that will just block the light coming through.

 

In most systems the contrast detection is required only be done in 16 x 16 pixels resolution. It could be run as low as 12-15 times a second for high speed targets (A-A missiles) or even just a 1-2 times a second for low speed targets (ie. Maverick against tank or Shkval locking on a vehicle), and when it is done by the client computer that launched the weapon, it is lightweight to a server where you can have tens or hundreds of projectiles in air at the same time.

 

Cheats could be as well be used with it to lower calculation requirements. As eventually just the contrast detection and proper locking scene is required for first phase and then it can be checked with longer delays that is it maintained. Like first run a contrast lock for a IR missile seeker to try to lock on the target, when the lock is achieved then there is no need to run the detection continually, but each time when the flare is inside FOV or the cloud/ground becomes as background when the target IR heat signature gets small (throttle is set idle). 

 

But, considering we have no typically a 3 or even 7 CPU cores (or even 11 or more) unused at this moment, there is a lot of calculation power to be used for these kind tasks. 

And contrast detection should be a primary research target for ED as it would allow to move toward real simulation instead scripted behavior. So if one doesn't see, it doesn't see. There is no need to go scripting the functionality for each specific case, like "is the unit ID centroid center of the locking gate?".  

 

 

 

[Blackjack_UK]

I'm not after Iglas. I'm not really after FLIR, though it would be nice to have. I'm not after anything new. I just want what we have to be fixed so that it works properly, and in all honesty I don't think that's an unreasonable viewpoint.

 

The Shark will always be handicapped in some ways against a 2 crew aircraft. But in other ways it has advantages. but only if systems that help it be so effective are modelled properly so they actually bloody work!

[Northstar98]

2 minutes ago, Blackjack_UK said:

I'm not after Iglas. I'm not really after FLIR, though it would be nice to have. I'm not after anything new. I just want what we have to be fixed so that it works properly, and in all honesty I don't think that's an unreasonable viewpoint.

 

Absolutely, that and an updated external model and major overhaul of the damage model, and graphical representation of damage.

[Mars Exulte]

8 hours ago, ResonantCard1 said:

That super-vague law has already killed the BS3, and it will kill the MiG-29 if ED decides to actually try to make it. I think it's useless to keep hoping to get more modern Russian aircraft from ED, it looks like it'll be basically impossible. At least we're getting the now defunct Mi-24. Thank the Apache for its death. But I guess it could only go that way. 

 

  I like how you find 47 different threads and manage to complain about your top two or three pet peeves/dramas in all of them, usually in the same post.

[3WA]

I really want Igla's.  Even when I can get a lock on an enemy heli, a lot of times, the vhiker seems to miss it, and explode usually behind it (and right now there is no fragmentation modeled).  The vhikers seem a little slow to take on aircraft (and of course, they can't take on a jet at speed).  The real problem to me is the Shkval is just a simple script (placeholder), that doesn't work anywhere near realistically; and without FLIR, it is impossible to do night missions, which makes the Shark useless, as darkness increases it's stealth abilities.  Not to mention, every tank down there has FLIR, and can see it, floating hot against a cold sky.  So, without FLIR, it's at a horrible disadvantage.

Edited March 5, 2021 by 3WA

[3WA]

8 hours ago, ResonantCard1 said:

That super-vague law has already killed the BS3, and it will kill the MiG-29 if ED decides to actually try to make it. I think it's useless to keep hoping to get more modern Russian aircraft from ED, it looks like it'll be basically impossible. At least we're getting the now defunct Mi-24. Thank the Apache for its death. But I guess it could only go that way. 

The fact that the law is so vague means it doesn't really kill anything.  I see it as a shot across the bow and a warning to all, probably because some people in Russia were doing crooked stuff like selling secret information.  The whole law looks like it has to do with spying and espionage.  Looking at it, I doubt it has anything to do with ED.  I'm sure if they keep up good relations with the companies that make these aircraft, tanks, etc., they will keep well within legal status.  And they seem to be doing just that.

[Enduro14]

Nineline said yesterday on discord when I asked him about BS3, ‘that news is coming soon and it’s been a rollercoster ride”. So take that how you will 

[3WA]

21 minutes ago, Enduro14 said:

Nineline said yesterday on discord when I asked him about BS3, ‘that news is coming soon and it’s been a rollercoster ride”. So take that how you will 

Good to know!

[RPY Variable]

In my opinion Iglas would be super useful. Specially in MP environment. I have been on lots of cases when I needed them. Vikhr AA employment is a bit cumbersome when the bandit is on the move, and specially if it is a fast mover.  RWR also, just to know if I have a good terrain masking or not. And FLIR for night operations would be incredible. I love night operations more that day operation, but is a no go with the Ka-50. All this things are present on a modern attack helicopters and are the main limitations of the Ka-50 version we have right now. 

This are just opinions on what would be nice to have, regardless of what ED is planning at the moment.

Edited March 5, 2021 by RPY Variable

[Rogue Trooper]

On 2/28/2021 at 8:37 AM, Fri13 said:

 

The game of "balance" is already over. The "DCS World" could very well be changed to something else as it is so heavily US weighted, but it is just fault of ED by first going so heavily to western side and then Russia changed their laws that simply denied ED to research, search, find, hold any military secrets.

But would it have mattered, as they wouldn't have been able update old modules if they would have managed to do them 10 years ago. 

 

And here we are, ED shouldn't even be able to make a AI version of the BTR-72 or T-72B3 as they need to handle military secrets about weapons, sighting systems, engines etc.

As if you can not hold in your posession any of such information, you can not search for any of such information, and you can not distribute any of such information, then it doesn't matter who does anything as ED needs to distribute the information through the DCS World.  Isn't law the law regardless is it about air force or army? 

 

We should basically just forget all the arguments about anything that Soviet Union or Russia has ever made, and just focus all the maps and terrains to just now to West areas where it would be simulated combat USA vs Germany or USA vs UK or USA vs the western world. As Russia and Russian made military equipment can be left outside of the whole equation.

 

So we should turn to see a Eurocopter Tiger, Agusta A129 Mangusta and then some armed utility helicopters to be done that would fight against AH-64 Apache and AH-1W Super Cobra and other US made armed utility helicopters. 

 

It would be balance, not what many would like but still far better than nothing. 

The KA-50 is a very good weapon system. The airframe is agile, manoeuvrable, has awe inspiring rudder authority and packs a massive punch. The full calibre 30mm Kannon and hyper ballistic missiles are the icing on the cake.

An automated self defensive system like president s may not be perfect but I think it will give this chopper a good boost in the right direction.

BS3 will go a long way to balancing Red and blue choppers.... not a perfect balance but not bad.

But for sure doing nothing with the KA-50 will just tip the balance massively in favour of Bluefor and I can find no validity in that argument.... no validity what so ever!  

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Rogue Trooper said:

Further to this, for utility choppers. Redfor is well ahead.

I even doubt a hunk of junk black hawk will change that balance!

 

when I look at modern jets in DCS, I think it is a joke how imbalanced it is with airframes and weapons.

DCS Choppers is something special, it will not be this way!

It will be balanced.... like WWII.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Rogue Trooper

[IcedVenom]

I really hope they don't can the BS3 update entirely. I was really looking forward to this when I heard about the Apache coming into the game. It would really help balance REDFOR and BLUFOR.

I know they say it is "on hold"  but let's be honest. It is flat out cancelled. All I can hope is that they can shelf it now and wait the years or decades it takes until the law changes, the systems become old enough for DCS implementation, or they somehow miraculously get permission. It doesn't even have to be all the features, just a couple like Iglas or RWR would help.

[Fastbreak]

"I really hope they don't can the BS3 update entirely. I was really looking forward to this when I heard about the Apache coming into the game. It would really help balance REDFOR and BLUFOR"

 

 

 

[Mars Exulte]

Was looking at comments in Casmo's Youtube interview and saw Wags say BS3 is still in active development with both new art and systems!

 

-edit

My broken link is no longer necessary, somebody else uploaded one

Edited April 6, 2021 by Mars Exulte

[IcedVenom]

6 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

Was looking at comments in Casmo's Youtube interview and saw Wags say BS3 is still in active development with both new art and systems!  Imgur isn't working just now, sorry. It's a google drive link.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VSB3rlTELGH476WOBR2up9bnARkIYynp/view

 

I hope this is true. Black Shark 3 is one of the things I'm most looking forward to. I'm praying all the new systems are not completely cancelled and they still have plans/working towards something for us Ka-50 players.

[Gizzy]

Snipped 06APR21... you can work out the time line from that.....  Brilliant!

 

 

 

[Avimimus]

On 3/5/2021 at 2:01 PM, 3WA said:

The fact that the law is so vague means it doesn't really kill anything.  I see it as a shot across the bow and a warning to all, probably because some people in Russia were doing crooked stuff like selling secret information.  The whole law looks like it has to do with spying and espionage.  Looking at it, I doubt it has anything to do with ED.  I'm sure if they keep up good relations with the companies that make these aircraft, tanks, etc., they will keep well within legal status.  And they seem to be doing just that.

 

I'm not sure you understand how vague laws work... there is the risk that you'll be vaguely prosecuted on a vague accusation - but the actual jail is apparently unvague though. Until there is clarity on exactly what is meant - it is best to keep the devs safe.

 

The fact it that the existence of modelling of any Russian system in any simulation could be used for training by an opponent. A Russian who builds such a simulation is actively contributing to that. Obviously the more plausible your simulation is (even if it uses unclassified data) the more it can be used for such a purpose - and just because other countries can build such simulations themselves to even higher fidelity might not protect you depending on the ruling. So I could see why a passage like that would make someone very nervous.

 

*edit - I'm not a lawyer, and certainly not an expert on Russian legal system - but I am a bit afraid of lawyers... hence my post.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Avimimus

[3WA]

Well, I'm sure Wags has his connections that will tell him what is approved for simulation and what is not.  Considering the Ka-50 looks to have been scrapped, along with the Shkval ( they're using the GOES-451 now) which was probably the most high tech thing on it, I doubt if continuing the module is going to be a problem.

[Mars Exulte]

On 4/6/2021 at 11:29 PM, Avimimus said:

I'm not sure you understand how vague laws work... there is the risk that you'll be vaguely prosecuted on a vague accusation - but the actual jail is apparently unvague though.

  Rofl, yeah, that's pretty much how it works. It's all vague and ambiguous until they throw your ass in a cell, then it becomes crystal clear you're screwed lol

[dimitriov]

On 4/7/2021 at 5:29 AM, Avimimus said:

 

I'm not sure you understand how vague laws work... there is the risk that you'll be vaguely prosecuted on a vague accusation - but the actual jail is apparently unvague though. Until there is clarity on exactly what is meant - it is best to keep the devs safe.

 

The fact it that the existence of modelling of any Russian system in any simulation could be used for training by an opponent. A Russian who builds such a simulation is actively contributing to that. Obviously the more plausible your simulation is (even if it uses unclassified data) the more it can be used for such a purpose - and just because other countries can build such simulations themselves to even higher fidelity might not protect you depending on the ruling. So I could see why a passage like that would make someone very nervous.

 

*edit - I'm not a lawyer, and certainly not an expert on Russian legal system - but I am a bit afraid of lawyers... hence my post.

 

 

Well, (soon) being one, that's simple : If law is vague, then it'll be up to the judge to fill the holes... Not sure that ED want's to be this precedent ^^

 

Don't know what's better. In France technically even datas on the Mystere are still classified... Still we have the Mirage 2000 in DCS. You'll notice that it's nowhere called this way in DCS (M-2000), and Razbam is a foreign company so they probably worked on this to escape legal issues. They may try to do the same with the Kamov. 

Edited April 11, 2021 by dimitriov

[S. Low]

On 4/6/2021 at 6:03 AM, Gizzy said:

Snipped 06APR21... you can work out the time line from that.....  Brilliant!

 

 

 

The tag on this thread now says project on hold.

[Ikaros]

Man, what is going on?

[Mars Exulte]

13 hours ago, Relic said:

The tag on this thread now says project on hold.

This thread we're posting in right now? It's said that for quite a while. Has nothing to do with the YouTube comments which are much more recent, thus all the excitement.

[Gizzy]

From Russian Forum via Goo.Tr.

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Gizzy

[Avimimus]

How lovely!

[XPACT]

Such great news, I won't celebrate too early but oh boy oh boy our coaxial rotor bird is not forgotten!

I hope electrical system overhaul is also planned

Edited April 22, 2021 by XPACT