To developers...

[hreich]

After seeing so many replies to my thread New Black Shark Movie on SimHQ ! from yasterday, I am hopeing that developers will see the need to release BS demo for whole community...Also if you take in account how many people probably upgraded their PC (like myself) to meet demands for your simulation, i think it would be logical to give the demo to community, who is supporting your work, and ultimatively will spend their money once your new product is finished. Think of how many new potentiall buyers you will get when, demo is out! Dont you feel obligated to give your loyal comunity a chance to try your product before buying? Dont you feel that way too...?

I know that you decided not to release demo, but i think you are making a mistake...

But hey, its just me thinking like that.....or....?????

[Boberro]

There are pluses and minuses. If to create demo is needed a "little" time (rather is needed, to cut some things, compile, missions, ect) so if this would prelong the final release it is not worth IMO, if not why not :D. My few cents ;]

[nemises]

There are a lot of people in the communicty in the Closed Beta.

 

If these people are able to say (once the NDA is lifted) how it REALLY is, then that is good enough for me.

 

At this point, I am determined to buy the product based on the media that ED have released, + the info on these boards.

 

I can easilly infer from discussions what the hardware requirements are, and what performance is going to be like on my Rig.

 

I do not require a demo, nor would I bother downloading one, unless it was released in advance and I am AGAINST a demo released in advance, as it would take resources away from completing the final product, which I am allready gagging for.

 

Perhaps a non interactive Tech Demo that would benchmark your system would suffice ?

[Groove]

Nemises, im not fully understanding your question regarding "how it REALLY is".

 

So far the community is getting a really unfiltered view on all the systems, including some real in depth videos made by Wags plus Chris` Videos on SimHQ.

 

Can you elaborate what you mean with "REALLY is" ?

[Doggy]

Pure impatience, but I do not wonder. It is like looking at beautiful woman and can't touch her still, only read and see how great she is :smilewink:

 

So be patient, she is coming... 2008 :D Demo will only delay her arival.

 

Somewhere I read that waiting itself is more exciting than day "D" alone :book: Well, we should enjoy these days till we can :lol:

 

;)

Edited July 2, 2008 by Doggy

[VMFA117_Poko]

Well, we should enjoy these days till we can :lol:

Always looking on the bright side of life :music_whistling:

[nemises]

Nemises, im not fully understanding your question regarding "how it REALLY is".

 

So far the community is getting a really unfiltered view on all the systems, including some real in depth videos made by Wags plus Chris` Videos on SimHQ.

 

Can you elaborate what you mean with "REALLY is" ?

 

Ah yep, I don't mean to be in any way contraversial, but it is possible that the image of how the product is and the reality of what the product is can differ!

 

I trust what people are saying through the NDA, but I will also definately value an out-of-NDA assesment on the finished thing..does that make sense? ...

 

As I've said above, I'm totally sold on the product as presented so far, and I'd be amazed if that could change before release.

I guess I meant that a Demo is not more usefull than a non-NDA honest review of the product by a trusted community member would be! (I may have just over complicated!)

 

Say for example, hreich is worried that his system might not be up to par, and therefore wants a Demo to benchmark. Instead of going to all the trouble of a Demo, I personally would accept a "it runs fine on my xxxx" from a community beta tester. capiche ? ... and as there are plenty of those sorts of comments around, it kind of mitigates the function of a Demo in my eyes *whew*

[Fodder]

Well maybe the people who have tested BS in the lowland tiger meet and wherever it has been displayed, might comment on how this sim feels. They're not under NDA I guess :) Maybe what the flight model feels like compared to Xplane or FSX or some other sim that has choppers etc.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Fodder
typo

[Boberro]

So be patient, she is coming... 2008 :D

 

Good joke :D

[Highwayman-Ed]

Good joke :D

 

lol, as much as I hope to see it this year, I'm not holding my breath either ;)

[sobek]

[snip]

 

I can really see your point, although there are IMHO so many cons for a demo, plus the devs have already commented numerous times that there wont be one, so dont waste your breath.

 

Also if i understand correctly you want to have a demo of the unfinished product. I think this would only be possible, if the game was almost finished, except for demo unrelated stuff as campaigns and stuff. As this is not the case now, ED would be foolish to release a demo of their beta as this would surely turn down lots of users.

 

Even further, a demo would delay work on the final product so its definately a no-go as far as i am concerned.

[Groove]

There is just one REALLY unbiased opinion on Black Shark - and thats your own.

 

On Low Land Tiger Meet we had the latest beta of Black Shark running and everybody was amazed by it. Believe it or not. We even had a active CH-53 Pilot flying who was very excited about the flight model.

 

But it will be always the same, what is okay for me might be not good enough for you and vice versa, off course.

 

With hardware prices that low right now most people should be able to afford some minor hardware updates if needed.

[sobek]

There is just one REALLY unbiased opinion on Black Shark - and thats your own.

 

On Low Land Tiger Meet we had the latest beta of Black Shark running and everybody was amazed by it. Believe it or not. We even had a active CH-53 Pilot flying who was very excited about the flight model.

 

I never said i was unbiased, i even said its my own opinion, so wth? Isnt stating your opinion and arguing for it whats discussion all about?

 

From what i have seen in the movies, im excited as hell myself, still there must be some unfinished business with the game or ED would have released it already.

[Glowing_Amraam]

Of course there is... Fixing bugs, polishing the game, adding music, missions and so on..Takes time :)

[Groove]

My reply was a general one, not as a reply to your post Sobek.

[Feuerfalke]

I'm with Boberro on this.

 

From the projects I participated in, a demo always had a negative touch for both sides.

 

Any pre-release-demo is taken from a beta, repacked and cut together to be at a manageable download-size and with enough systems to not allow too much for the demo. That way any demo released is usually weeks, if not months behind the current development-phase, unstable and incomplete. Just look at the FC-demo, that didn't even include the complex flight-modell.

Beyond that, all this work mentioned has to be done by the staff. Valuable working-hours that are missing on the main project.

 

 

I'd rather like to have the manual before the release and that was already promised. So I'm pretty glad the way it is. (Still need German translators with graphics experience, btw? ;) )

[sobek]

My reply was a general one, not as a reply to your post Sobek.

 

Whoops, sorry :music_whistling:

 

Sounded like a reply to me.

[BBQ]

I think demo is short for demonstration. Look at Beach and Wags videos for extremely detailed demonstrations of the simulation.

[EvilBivol-1]

Luke, use the FAQ:

Q: Will there be a DCS: Black Shark demo?

A: Right now our primary focus is on finishing DCS: Black Shark and making it available to you. Once this task is complete, we will evaluate the creation of a playable demo. No decision has been made at this time

[EagleEye]

Well maybe the people who have tested BS in the lowland tiger meet and wherever it has been displayed, might comment on how this sim feels. They're not under NDA I guess :) Maybe what the flight model feels like compared to Xplane or FSX or some other sim that has choppers etc.

 

Hey Fodder, if you search this forum and over on SIMHQ you will find reports from the LLTM`08 and other events where BS was shown and was playable. I was also on the LLTM and I was exited about the flight model. I´m not a expert nor flew helicopters in pilot seat (I only fly glider planes) in reallife but it feels very right to me.

I don`t know how they calculate the flight model, but it dont felt scripted to me. Do you ever flew the Su25(T) in Flaming Cliffs? Try it and you will have no doubt on the Ka-50 FM anymore.:)

Another example is the damage model. As you can see in my LLTM vid (

) I was testing the damage model. After some parts of the lower rotor blades was broken this rotor could not compensate the momentum of the upper rotor anymore so the helo was doing a spiral flight path after pulling the pitch.

If you have further questions regarding my experience on LLTM event ask me. I will try to answer it with my poor english. :-)

Edited July 2, 2008 by EagleEye

[Fodder]

Oh I've never had any doubts about this game. I just thought that when someone else wanted to hear opinions from the community members and I did not know there were any other videos or player previews than the ones I had already seen so just thought I'd ask.

 

What I was interested in was just that if some other chopper in a game had about the same feel as BS so I could pretend I was flying the Ka-50 without the weapons to satisfy me until the release of BS :P I just love to fly between the skyscrapers in FSX and the model feels good to me, but was curious of how it would be compared to BS. Not really sure if they even can be compared. The "not being scripted" feeling is good enough for me :) I'm sure this sim will live up to its hype and even if it for some weird reason wouldn't, it's still the only helicopter sim, that can be taken seriously, that has weapon systems in it :) At least in my head

 

I've tried the Su-25t a little bit but since I'm not really a big fan of modern fixed wing aircraft, and the fact that I don't understand half of what is going on under the hood with all the beeping and radars and missiles and stuff, I haven't really learned to fly it. I do like the WW2 planes though because they're more simple to learn and I'm really just learning the basics of flight here :)

 

I love the thought of not having a radar in the Ka-50 (or anything else useless :P) and going up and close with rockets and guns, just hovering above them with my evil laugh echoing in the cockpit when I make them dance to the beat of my 30mm rounds.. It's more personal that way :evil:

 

Imagine dropping a nuke and flying away without even seeing the carnage that follows. Where is the fun in that? That's why I dislike modern planes. Maybe this bit would have been written to the nuke poll or why choppers are more fun than jets and I need to get laid or something but enough rambling of random stuff, the point is in there somewhere.

 

Over and out

[GGTharos]

Choppers are 'more fun' than jets because as we've seen in the A2G v A2A poll, 66% of people suck too much at A2A to even consider it.

 

Disclaimer: If you took this as an insult, you really need to check that your humour-meter did not come from the FBI. :D

 

PS: Try the S-25A or T in LO. The 25A in particular is a 'WW2 fighter with jet engines' ... the 25T you'll want to try after to see the difference in FM that DCS will provide for a differently loaded aircraft. There's no radar on either ... in fact, both are quite a bit simpler to oeprate than the Ka-50.

Edited July 2, 2008 by GGTharos

[Vekkinho]

I don't like demo versions of games or software, never have and guess I never will!

 

IMO, demos can be compared to watching a Jenna Jameson photos, you can't really say wether you like it or not until you "try" a whole package!

[Fodder]

I can't say if I suck at A2A or not because I never get that far. When the beeping comes I panic and eject :D

 

I just finished watching the Su-25t training video from www.flankertraining.com and the plane doesn't feel so intimidating now. Actually the cockpit seems quite logical after all :P Would be good practice to learn to read the russian instruments and symbols as well. Might decrease the learning curve a bit for BS :) And more off topic: The turbine engines can't be over-revved right? Maybe I dive into the manual for a bit

 

And a vote for no demo from here as well. We want to ride Jenna Jameson, not just look at her :joystick:

[GGTharos]

You can over-speed come engines in a dive ... not sure if this is implemented in the frog. It has more to do with combustion temperatures than RPM though, IIRC.

 

The Su-25T's pit will help you become a little more familiar with how Russian avionics LOOK, however, I caution again that unlike in the Su-25T, in the Ka-50, almost all the switches -do- something, and that something can be important at one time or another. The aircraft operation is far more complex overall than LO's fighters.

On the other hand, perhaps a lot of this stuff just makes more sense to people :) So even though a radio might be complicated, people will tend to think of it as a relatively simple instrument- 'I have a radio for this, that and the other, and I need to choose a frequency in each case'.

 

It is a LOT of stuff to remeber though :)