Apache control mapping recommendation from a REAL Apache pilot

[bradmick]

Howdy!

 

Been thinking on this for a while and seen some traffic in various Discords about how to map the controls of the Apache. This is my recommendation! The way I plan on doing this personally is the XBox and Warthog Combo, but I did a version where everything is mapped to the Warthog using the pinky switch as the mode selector. It covers all of the critical functions for the front seat and some of the Collective Mission/Flight grip items useful to the pilot or someone who's solo'ing the aircraft. Granted, this is 100% subject to change based on what we ACTUALLY get, but hey, it's a start! Here's the link:

 

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1VOGq5rAgwdCn288y7fmE8Ontksc-ZEJVCbT9zVZP_kM/edit#slide=id.gbb35f7e78e_1_1388

 

And yes, I am a real Apache pilot, like the title says. Been flying them since 2009.

 

V/R

 

BradMick

Edited February 27, 2021 by bradmick

[Sarge55]

Great.  Thanks for the insight. This will be invaluable.

 

Any chance on a recommended layout for the MFD's but using the TM Cougar MFD's which are the prevalent model in the sim world.  (At your leisure, I think we have time)

[bradmick]

On 2/27/2021 at 11:47 AM, Sarge55 said:

Great.  Thanks for the insight. This will be invaluable.

 

Any chance on a recommended layout for the MFD's but using the TM Cougar MFD's which are the prevalent model in the sim world.  (At your leisure, I think we have time)

 I don't, because at any given time all 6 of those buttons along the top, bottom, and sides of the MPDs can be super important to you...just depends on what your current page/sub-page is.

 

V/R

 

Brad

[Sarge55]

Good to know, thank you again. 
 

Going to be a challenge for us then.

[Bedouin]

8 hours ago, Sarge55 said:

Good to know, thank you again. 
 

Going to be a challenge for us then.

 

i am considering using Elgato SteamDeck XL instead of the TM MFD's

[Sarge55]

Is there a 6 button per side model?  I have my 4 MFD’s mounted on a second monitor and export the screens.
Or, will you export the DDI screen above each of the units.

Looks like great option for an UFC. 

[VTJS17_Fire]

On 2/27/2021 at 6:47 PM, Sarge55 said:

Great.  Thanks for the insight. This will be invaluable.

 

Any chance on a recommended layout for the MFD's but using the TM Cougar MFD's which are the prevalent model in the sim world.  (At your leisure, I think we have time)

 

I would recomment this. You can use the BRT/SBL/etc 2-way switches on the corners of each MFD. I do that in the Hornet, as well. The upper ones for the radios, for example. I have to tune the brightness so seldom, that I can use the mouse for that.

 

With that setup, you have 7 OSB on each side of the MFD.

[Sarge55]

Excellent. I’ll keep that in my notes. Sounds like a workable solution. 

[Meathawk]

Thats great Stuff! Thanks a lot! Is it ok if I link it on Facebook?

Regarding the MFDs (MPDs) for VR Users I would recomend the pointCTRL mice.
For 2D Users I would build the MPDs with a 3D printed Frame, Buttons and a Button Box - its not rocket science.

[maxxstv]

thank you, very usefull.

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by maxxstv

[MRTX]

I know this question doesn't really have anything to do with the control setup, rather with the autopilot. So far i've been looking for the answer if you could engage the altitude hold while in a bank to set up an orbit above your target area (which would be awesome, since i'm probably going to solo the apache for a while) but even in an operators manual i couldn't find that answer.

 

So would you have to use an attitude hold for doing this, or would this work just fine with the altitude hold?

[Raptor9]

1 hour ago, MRTX said:

I know this question doesn't really have anything to do with the control setup, rather with the autopilot. So far i've been looking for the answer if you could engage the altitude hold while in a bank to set up an orbit above your target area (which would be awesome, since i'm probably going to solo the apache for a while) but even in an operators manual i couldn't find that answer.

 

So would you have to use an attitude hold for doing this, or would this work just fine with the altitude hold?

 

Short answer: Maybe, maybe not.  It depends on how stable you have the aircraft in it's flight path using the force trim.

 

Long answer: The Apache is like the A-10C, in that it only has hold modes, no coupled autopilot like the Ka-50.  You could get the aircraft trimmed up real stable, and engage the altitude hold to control the collective, but the attitude might eventually drift to a point that any altitude hold system will not be able to compensate; as is the case with most aircraft when you try to control one axis of movement without properly paying attention to the others.

[MRTX]

Thanks!

[Thunder_]

That’s good I will try that set up , is it working ? Anyone tried ?

[BaD CrC]

Thanks for sharing @bradmick. Good stuff here. Although ultimately the community will certainly come with 3D printed solutions that will very closely match the actual controls. Our pilots at Black Shark Den have already been able to create exact functional replicas of the 58D collective and adapt real Mi24 parts to work with DCS. I have no doubt this will also happen for the 64 although the collective for this aircraft is the weirdest I have seen so far.

 

[BlacleyCole]

On 2/27/2021 at 8:23 AM, bradmick said:

Howdy!

 

Been thinking on this for a while and seen some traffic in various Discords about how to map the controls of the Apache. This is my recommendation! The way I plan on doing this personally is the XBox and Warthog Combo, but I did a version where everything is mapped to the Warthog using the pinky switch as the mode selector. It covers all of the critical functions for the front seat and some of the Collective Mission/Flight grip items useful to the pilot or someone who's solo'ing the aircraft. Granted, this is 100% subject to change based on what we ACTUALLY get, but hey, it's a start! Here's the link:

 

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1VOGq5rAgwdCn288y7fmE8Ontksc-ZEJVCbT9zVZP_kM/edit#slide=id.gbb35f7e78e_1_1388

 

And yes, I am a real Apache pilot, like the title says. Been flying them since 2009.

 

V/R

 

BradMick

 

 

hey I’ve refused to go the Microsoft way trying to avoid Xbox and windows where I can.  I have a old cheese crater Mac Pro and an old MacBook Pro plus all the iOS devices iPhone,iPad Pro and Apple Watch plus two older iPads and iPhone that are out of date and use.  I do have an Acer Predator 17X laptop with 6 tb of hard drive space and 64 gb of ram. That I run my sims on since msfs and dcs will not run on a Mac. I have xplane on it for vr flights I just got msfs and have actually flown a single flight yet I’ve us ai to fly a couple.  In your statement above you say Xbox and warthog combo.  Is this a Xbox controller and a warthog controller or do you run dcs on your Xbox somehow with the warthog controller?  If you do run it on the Xbox how does it run?  Better than a pc since it’s a risk computer?  I’m un educated on the Xbox since I never even play on one.

[cordite]

He means Xbox controller. See the second page in his document.

[BlacleyCole]

Thanks I did see a second page still learning the new format

[NWGJulian]

Am 27.2.2021 um 16:23 schrieb bradmick:

Howdy!

 

Been thinking on this for a while and seen some traffic in various Discords about how to map the controls of the Apache. This is my recommendation! The way I plan on doing this personally is the XBox and Warthog Combo, but I did a version where everything is mapped to the Warthog using the pinky switch as the mode selector. It covers all of the critical functions for the front seat and some of the Collective Mission/Flight grip items useful to the pilot or someone who's solo'ing the aircraft. Granted, this is 100% subject to change based on what we ACTUALLY get, but hey, it's a start! Here's the link:

 

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1VOGq5rAgwdCn288y7fmE8Ontksc-ZEJVCbT9zVZP_kM/edit#slide=id.gbb35f7e78e_1_1388

 

And yes, I am a real Apache pilot, like the title says. Been flying them since 2009.

 

V/R

 

BradMick

 

thanks for the docs, altough i have a few questions:

1. what exactly is meant with PAN TADS? i cant find that on the discription page of the systems. is this the slew of the cursor? or is the cursor slew just on the tdc slew on the throttle axis?

2. what is the difference between the normal cursor (on mission grip and left tedac) and the thumbforce controller?

3. some bindings that i miss, but i am not sure if they are needed: cursor display select (thats a button, right? sounds like the SOI button on the f18/a10), CSCOPE button, FLIR/PLRT button, sensor select switch (on tedac) and laser spot tracker mode switch

4. also, what about the FCR mode switch? this looks like a pretty important button, due its on the mission grip and on the TEDAC control grip (gmt, tpm, rmap and atm)

5. boresight/polarity switch? no need for this?

 

i actually made an own version of your profile, with some slight changes, not sure if its nonsense

 

AH-64D APACHE PILOT TMWH HOTAS.pdf

Edited September 16, 2021 by NWGJulian

[NWGJulian]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb kgillers3:

@NWGJulianK I'm looking at what you posted.  1st of all I am NO ONE to tell you how to set up your own personal controls.  Looking at your controls, replace bore pol b/s with slave or give slave a more dedicated button.  If you're front seat you'll use the shit outta it. Your sight select fcr/tads, you're gonna want it to be matched regardless of mode. I know what you're trying to do but depending on what you plan on doing you could run into a situation where you're swapping through both.  You're Store update up needs to be a dedicated button as well, that tgt store is clutch for building sa and quickly reorientation on a tgt area. Take fire, you're up hmd, look at it tgt store left pull get some space acq source Txx slave.    You could probably dump your ICS button and repurpose it (maybe slave) seeings how most peeps talk either over discord, and even in the actual aircraft we have vox. I'd recommend second detent for both laser and trigger for game purposes.  Again you asked if someone would look at em.  Again it's your personal setup.  That's just my opinions on it. I have an idea of how i'm gonna chop this tree down but I'll probably change some things along the way as I go through.  Hope this helps. 

 

thank you very much for looking into it!  in fact, my pdf sheet is based on the the sheet that the creator of this thread here made, he is also an apache pilot. all i did was basically adding some keybinds that i THINK that could be helpful (obviously i have no idea if it really is  )

 

the whole topic is a subject-to-change obviously, we will see how it will be if the module finally arrives.

 

but its nice to hear a real pilot giving his thoughts about this! thanks!

Edited September 17, 2021 by NWGJulian

[NWGJulian]

.

Edited September 17, 2021 by NWGJulian

[NWGJulian]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb kgillers3:

Your sight select fcr/tads, you're gonna want it to be matched regardless of mode. I know what you're trying to do but depending on what you plan on doing you could run into a situation where you're swapping through both

 

alright, got it  actually this was not my own idea, but from @bradmick, i just stole it from his sheet and i thought it was a really cool idea  i will dump the bore pol switch for the sight select then, and put bore pol on the flaps switch on the throttle base. looks like this switch is not used very much anyways

 

laser on the trigger, i am actually not sure if its possible to bind trigger AND laser to the same second detent you mean with a modifier? fcr or tads modifier?

 

i will put the target store where the laser button was, under the fmc release, i think that could make sense (btw would you even waste a button on the fmc release?)

i just noted following line it matt wagner‘s pinned threat about the controlls: 

8. Target store switch. Not a feature with late-Block II AH-64D.

 

slave button: i do have a free dedicated button for it now (i like the ics button tbh, for roleplay reasons :P)

 

updatet it for now, but still 100% subject to change

AH-64D APACHE PILOT TMWH HOTAS.pdf

Edited September 17, 2021 by NWGJulian

[NWGJulian]

vor 38 Minuten schrieb kgillers3:

 Fcr and tads I was saying make them both selectable regardless of what the pinky switch is in. So pinky back bind both, pinky forward bind both. 

 

if i do that, then i can completely get rid of the pinky switch as a modifier. and bind every fcr and tads control input on an own switch/hat. but i dont have enough switches on my hotas, thats why i made these 2 modifiers. 

or did i missunderstood something terribly wrong here?

 

my understanding was: as a gunner, you either control the fcr (switch forward) or the tads (switch back), but not those 2 together.

 

just to clear it up, only the green and blue texts are modified bindings. all those who are red, are working independent from the pinkie mod switch. 

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by NWGJulian

[NWGJulian]

vor 49 Minuten schrieb kgillers3:

Target store update up is target store, target store update down is update which isn’t necessary. On the cyclic below fmc release is a target store as well

alright, got it. so all that is needed is the target store below the fmc release, and not the switch on the tedac; if i understand that right.

but, why does i say in wags pinned post that the „target store switch“ on the cyclic is not needed in our apache block model?

[sobe]

bradmick

 

I have been looking at your alternative Warthog key system and have two questions.  Could you please clarify what the different colors stand for.  Also, could you please explain Mode1, Mode 2 and especially "both".    I have a spare joystick that I might you as a second joystick for the Tedac.  This is going to be fun figuring all this out.

NWGJulian

 

Could you please add a legend for what the colors mean on your Hotas.  Thanks.