A size comparison of DCS maps

[xvii-Dietrich]

We've taken a look at the scale of the all DCS maps and how they relate to each other. Nevada and Marianas are completely separate from all the others. The Channel and Normandy overlap each other. The Caucasus, Syria and Persian Gulf maps are near each other, but there is no overlap. But these are spaced at the correct distance apart on the image.
 

The "populated" (in a scenery sense) areas of each map are not the same. It is pretty obvious on the Caucasus where the filled-in area is. The Persian Gulf has detail for the Strait of Hormuz, while Kuwait, Bahrain and Iraq are coastlines only. The Syria map actually has the most scenery-populated land area. And, of course, water is water... the Marianas has a minuscule landmass but is still, in a sense, the largest map.

 

A link to the full article (and hi-res downloads) is here if anyone is interested: https://stormofwar.net/2021/07/19/july-2021-dcs-map-comparison/

 

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[Bananabrai]

Nice, gives a good impression.

 

I never quite realized that the maps are actually not that far apart.
I mean I knew it, but now that you visualized it, it's lookling to be less than I imagined

[Rick50]

Would it be fair to say the Syria and Nevada maps have the highest number of custom buildings objects and such?

 

Thanks for the compilation, Dietrich!!

[StevanJ]

This is a great insight.
When you fly in the Channel, It actually feels that small too..
 

[Mike Force Team]

When you are creating  the DCS map, do you have the ability to add weather effects?  For example, you can add clouds that would simulate things like smog or smoke from runaway wildfires.  What about adding weather effects such as hail?  In creating maps that show arid deserts, what about having vegetation such as cactus, trees, and oasis?  Camel caravans?

[Rick50]

Weather is not the map, but ED's doing. And they gave us a good upgrade with 2.7

 

Someone created fires with black smoke for a few missions in the Persian Gulf map... 

[Rick50]

So regarding map size, according to a dev from Razbam who is working on the South Atlantic map (Falkland Islands and a portion of Argentina, with a LOT of water in between), that map was already at about 12 gigs worth of data in August 2020, and may well have grown since then. Remember, that's a map with mostly water, and the islands seem rather sparse.

 

I've no idea how much more data would be involved with milions of object counts, for a much more object dense map. Maybe we ought to focus as much on the data size of the various maps, than just the area size.  

Edited August 29, 2021 by Rick50

[Mike Force Team]

Thank you for your response and clarification.  I did not know that over 12 GB of data was involved.  That is a HUGE amount of data.  At the same time, I believe the South Atlantic map will be another popular addition to the D.C. world.

 

I watched a presentation on the HIP (How I Play) Network channel.  The narrator said that he flew a mission on the South Atlantic Ocean Map, which he likely had access to as a beta participant.  Anyway, he said that he flew to the Falkland islands and he flew for one hour!  This map is ideal for maritime missions against the Falkland islands or the tip of southern Argentina.  

Edited August 29, 2021 by Fighter Mike

[Rick50]

 

Well that does make sense: from Rio Gallegos Argentina, to Port Stanley is 492 miles, or 791 km, and that's probably around what your cruise speed is per hour, in many fighters. 

 

I remember hearing somewhere that one reason the Argentinian strike fighters were not as effective as expected, was because the very long distances meant that their pilots had extremely short time on station, in order to have enough return fuel. Meaning one or two passes and "Bingo!", gotta return home. Two hours in the air might not seem so bad for giant fighters with lots of internal and externals and some air tankers supporting you... but for smaller fighters in 1982 with no air tanking...

 

 

[draconus]

On 8/28/2021 at 3:47 AM, Fighter Mike said:

In creating maps that show arid deserts, what about having vegetation such as cactus, trees, and oasis?  Camel caravans?

Like already said - weather is not part of the map - it is added in Mission Editor and so are other objects like all statics or AI military crew, ships, aircraft, vehicles, equipment and weapons, some buildings and structures and also effects like smoke, explosions and fire. We have only one animal atm in DCS, that is cow, and we can place them as objects on the map, but good idea about camels. Trees and other vegetation is part of the map, but removable with the right function in ME.

 

On 8/29/2021 at 5:08 PM, Rick50 said:

Maybe we ought to focus as much on the data size of the various maps, than just the area size.

By all means it is one of the more important things devs take into consideration.

 

On 8/29/2021 at 10:42 PM, Fighter Mike said:

I did not know that over 12 GB of data was involved.  That is a HUGE amount of data.

Compared to what? Syria is 60GB afair.

Mind that there is huge number of trees on the new South Atlantic map.

 

[Lace]

On 8/30/2021 at 6:20 PM, Rick50 said:

 

Well that does make sense: from Rio Gallegos Argentina, to Port Stanley is 492 miles, or 791 km, and that's probably around what your cruise speed is per hour, in many fighters. 

 

I remember hearing somewhere that one reason the Argentinian strike fighters were not as effective as expected, was because the very long distances meant that their pilots had extremely short time on station, in order to have enough return fuel. Meaning one or two passes and "Bingo!", gotta return home. Two hours in the air might not seem so bad for giant fighters with lots of internal and externals and some air tankers supporting you... but for smaller fighters in 1982 with no air tanking...

 

 

 

Both A-4s and SuEs were A2A refuelled during the Falklands war.  It was only the Mirages and Daggers which couldn't.  Even so, you are right about the short time on target, though that was largely down to the fact that once the bombs were gone, there was no reason to hang around.  They were not keen to mix it with the SHARs and 'bravely running away' was the preferred tactic.  No disrespect meant to the Argentine pilots, but given their losses to the SHAR (21-nil) it was the sensible choice.

[Rick50]

 

I wouldn't be too excited either, to dogfight with British Harrier pilots armed with brand new Limas and itching for a good fight... with an hour or more of hostile, very cold ocean to swim home in, for even a tiny amount of damage... I mean, if you had to ditch 300km from land... that wouldn't just be very miserable, I'd be severely doubting successful rescue before dieing of hypothermia. Sure, maybe today with the very long range specialised rescue helos you might stand an ok chance... but in 1982 Argentinian service? Doubtful, I'd think. The Argentinian pilots did their job, followed the orders, and did what they could in the conditions they were stuck with. Might not be glamorous or inspire big movies, but I do think they ought to have pride just the same.

[rkk01]

IIRC, from reading… the Argentinian Mirages started the conflict with long range external tanks.

BUT, at the first sign of contact with the FAA SHARs, they ditched the tanks to evade - normal combat tactics, but in no time at all, no LR tanks left…

Edited November 21, 2021 by rkk01

[SPS48A]

Good info and discussion. I understand the data requirements, or should I say I appreciate the requirements, but Microsoft has figured out how to do it on a pretty much seamless world wide basis. It can be downloaded by section as needed. Again, I appreciate the complexity of these endeavors, but there has got to be a way. There is really no reason that the entire European theater, or Middle East, or SE Asia could not be a single map parsed up and loaded as necessary.

On another note, I would love to see someone with access to a plotter print out these maps and offer them for sale. I would gladly pay for a few of them to hand on the wall in my virtual flight world. Something 24x24 or 36x36 would be a great reference.

[Rick50]

 

Well... Microsoft has HUGE reserves of money, and huge reserves of talent, and dramatic amounts of ndustry support. And... if you look at some forums, it seems they have not actually perfected it either, problems here, problems there. But it IS impressive, and they will soon perfect it, I'm certain. And it also does prove it can be done.

ED's plan is to attempt to make a "global map" for DCS or it's successor, but they aren't certain if it will work, or how much time it will take. Nor do we really know any other real details.  I just know I'm wishing both companies great success!

 

[Rick50]

For reference, DCS map sizes in ascending order:

 

Channel map : 40,000 km2

Normandy map: 92,916  sq km

Caucasus map: belongs here

Persian Gulf map: 200,000 sq km  (note, this number seems to represent the detailed area, not the pure edges of the map)

Nevada NTTR: uncertain, but it's probably roughly fits here

Syria map : 450,000 km2

 

NTTR is roughly half the raw size of the Syria map, albeit with less objects to render (much fewer buildings, much fewer trees and shrubs) Also, keep in mind that more than 1/3 of the Syria map is Mediteranean sea... so the Nevada map is not that far behind Syria for the actual land area... but again, the map is not as dense as the Syria map.

Similarly, the Caucasus map, right to the edges, is massive, but most of that is flat, little textures, no roads or buildings... the detailed area is probably roughly between the size of Normandy and Nevada.

 

Compare to other video games, where only a couple are larger... and "no man's sky" is a spaceship game/sim... 

 

[WelshZeCorgi]

Can there be a comparison with the South Atlantic map added for visual aid?

[Rick50]

 

Might be a little early for that, considering that new map is not finished.  I'm sure when it's done or close to done someone will figure this out for this thread topic, but it might be a  bit of a wait!!

[draconus]

11 hours ago, WelshZeCorgi said:

Can there be a comparison with the South Atlantic map added for visual aid?

[WelshZeCorgi]

Marianas map?

[Rick50]

Dunno about pure size, but it'd be a few green pixels and all blue for the rest!

[Rick50]

 

So ORBX is VERY experienced at making quality high detail terrain addon products for various civilian oriented flight simulations... for decades. And they have now announced a very cool terrain add on, the Kola Peninsula, with a little bit of Russia, a tiny bit of Sweden and Finland, and the northern bit of Norway! 

I've been busy lately or this would have been done earlier... but I just did a rough check on the map area... and this terrain is HUGE compared to most maps. It seems to be roughly 1200 km wide!  

 

Area: 370251 sq mi (958,949 sq km)

This is only a rough estimate, and may not represent the final product... but this is about twice the area of the Syria map, for reference, at roughly 450,000 sq km.

Now, normally, this might be a cause for concern... but this is ORBX, they are not new to sims, nor to high quality terrain products for sims. 

On 3/14/2022 at 8:18 PM, Rick50 said:

For reference, DCS map sizes in ascending order:

 

Channel map : 40,000 km2

Normandy map: 92,916  sq km

Caucasus map: belongs here

Persian Gulf map: 200,000 sq km  (note, this number seems to represent the detailed area, not the pure edges of the map)

Nevada NTTR: uncertain, but it's probably roughly fits here

Syria map : 450,000 km2

 from the earlier post

[Despayre]

On 9/1/2021 at 4:40 AM, Lace said:

 

...They were not keen to mix it with the SHARs and 'bravely running away' was the preferred tactic...

 

Hey! Bravely running away is my best combat tactic, don't knock it!

[Rick50]

 if it works for Monty Python, good enough for me!!

[Silver_Dragon]

On 6/22/2022 at 8:02 AM, draconus said:

That sizes dont match with the DCS editor size.