Would I like the F14 if I don't like the F18

[Biggus]

For what it's worth, I find it easier for some reason to switch between the  Viper and the Tomcat than I do between the Hornet and the Tomcat.  However, the Hornet does things that the 14 cannot do and that the Viper cannot do quite as well.  So I treat flying the Hornet as a necessary chore, and the Tomcat as a reward for getting my chores done.

[Spurts]

I have the Hornet.  It is very capable.  I call it "The Easy Button".  I fly it the least of my FF Modules.  Tomcats and Harriers for me.

[captain_dalan]

On 8/3/2021 at 4:03 PM, dawgie79 said:

6 hours is by far not long enough to properly assess if you like an aircraft or not. At least in my opinion. So go and fly some more first. You just can't expect to learn a modern combat aircraft in an hour or so. Nobody can.

Ok, you are new to DCS, but are you new to flight sims? Any prior experience? Any RL flying experience? And what do you prefer doing in DCS? BVR? WVR? CAS? Interdiction? Joyriding? 

[Hobo 1-1]

• I can only tell you my personal experience, your mileage may vary. I flew the F-18 religiously when I first started DCS. It’s a very intense aircraft systems-wise and an “easy” aircraft to fly. Flying solo in the Tomcat is the polar opposite. In the front seat the systems are pretty easy (Jester does most everything avionics wise for you VIA command), the aircraft is moderately hard to fly generally and very hard to fly really well, particularly behind the boat and particularly in the A model. 
• For me, and what I consider fun, I find the Hornet can be a crazy busy sim pit. Overwhelming many times. That’s just me though and the lens I am looking through is purely based on my idea of fun after work, tired and looking for really engaging mission on SAW 
• In my worthless opinion, I like having Jester take care of most of the avionics work while I worry about the pointy end getting off of and back on to the boat, locking up visual range bad guys and finding that sweet spot for the AIM 7 (pro tip - lead like a gun shot, but more…….no more than even that - a lot of lead and you’ll rarely miss) or heaters. The long range 54 shots are fun too, but that’s more about setting up a nice geometry and going as fast as possible at launch. 
• Currently I fly the A Tomcat and find it immensely enjoyable, almost exclusively on SAW. The B has way more power, but I find myself really enjoying the Tomcat of the Top Gun days, just as peculiar, somewhat lacking and picky as they were back then. 
• I don’t mean to insult Hornet fans or gush like super mil sim try-hard about the Tomcat. Just the way I see things, totally imperfect and totally flawed (like anyone)

ETA - I have no idea how a real Tomcat does, should or did handle. I’m only sharing my opinion as a layperson playing DCS 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Palmetto 1-1

[Dangerzone]

2 hours ago, Palmetto 1-1 said:

• I can only tell you my personal experience, your mileage may vary. I flew the F-18 religiously when I first started DCS. It’s a very intense aircraft systems-wise and an “easy” aircraft to fly. Flying solo in the Tomcat is the polar opposite. In the front seat the systems are pretty easy (Jester does most everything avionics wise for you VIA command), the aircraft is moderately hard to fly generally and very hard to fly really well, particularly behind the boat and particularly in the A model. 
• For me, and what I consider fun, I find the Hornet can be a crazy busy sim pit. Overwhelming many times. That’s just me though and the lens I am looking through is purely based on my idea of fun after work, tired and looking for really engaging mission on SAW 
• In my worthless opinion, I like having Jester take care of most of the avionics work while I worry about the pointy end getting off of and back on to the boat, locking up visual range bad guys and finding that sweet spot for the AIM 7 (pro tip - lead like a gun shot, but more…….no more than even that - a lot of lead and you’ll rarely miss) or heaters. The long range 54 shots are fun too, but that’s more about setting up a nice geometry and going as fast as possible at launch. 
• Currently I fly the A Tomcat and find it immensely enjoyable, almost exclusively on SAW. The B has way more power, but I find myself really enjoying the Tomcat of the Top Gun days, just as peculiar, somewhat lacking and picky as they were back then. 
• I don’t mean to insult Hornet fans or gush like super mil sim try-hard about the Tomcat. Just the way I see things, totally imperfect and totally flawed (like anyone)

ETA - I have no idea how a real Tomcat does, should or did handle. I’m only sharing my opinion as a layperson playing DCS 

 

 

I don't think you've insulted the hornet guys at all. I am primarily a Hornet flyer so far - but I am thinking of getting the Tomcat. From what I've viewed - the Hornet is more a weapons deploy system (not to the extent of the A10 or KA-50, but much more than the Tomcat). Half (or more) of the pilots interaction is with the weapons, avionics, etc - and not about 'seat of your pants' flying.

 

I also fly helicopters. My favorite being the UH-1. It's all about the flying with the Huey. Very little systems, but in combat it's all go-go with flight only.

 

I'm thinking that I may enjoy the Tomcat more than the Hornet - simply because for me - I enjoy the flying more than I do the weapons delivery. I enjoy the challenges brought with realistic flying. IRL I'd far prefer to be doing circuits on a blustry windy day than flying in a straight line for hours on a calm day - because I like the challenges. I think that flows over to the simulator for me as well. The only reason I haven't gotten the Tomcat yet is that I want a couple of weeks free time to try it out first (live has been too hectic lately) to make sure that I'm actually going to use it - coz I have a couple of other modules I've purchased and hardly use. 

 

I like the Hornet (now that I have learned all the systems) - because it allows me to be a jack of all trades on multiplayer. I can work with other people, and be effective at multiple tasks depending on what's required on the day. That's very handy. 

 

But it seems that the Tomcat is more about the flying (and additional challenges), whereas the Hornet is more about the weapons system, and half they flying/thinking is done for you by FBW computers - and it's that which is appealing to me with the F14.

 

As for the O.P. - whether you'll like the F14 over the F18 will really depend on what it is that you enjoy out of flight simulators. It may not hurt to actually write down a list in priority order about what gives you the most satisfaction to the least, and post it here - and then people will have more to go on.

 

I really appreciate knowing the systems and being able to fly the Hornet using most systems now - but if I had to go through all that learning curve again - it would be a tough one. It was made easier because I had a coupe of other friends - we were all starting off together, and we did one system at a time online in multiplayer with missions designed solely for those systems which was much easier to talk back and forth - than trying to learn solo.

 

I could be wrong with this - but would the following be a fair assessment:

 

Hornet - Far more to learn - and take in, but easier to fly / handle.

 

Tomcat - Much less to actually learn - but much more skill refinement required to fly it well.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Dangerzone

[freehand]

lol you gotta love the HB groupies also remember if there is anything wrong or your not happy it's always ED fault.

[Thundercat710]

Disliking the F-18 is a pre-requisite for liking the F-14

[DD_Fenrir]

8 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

 

I could be wrong with this - but would the following be a fair assessment:

 

Hornet - Far more to learn - and take in, but easier to fly / handle.

 

Tomcat - Much less to actually learn - but much more skill refinement required to fly it well.

 

 

As a summary, spot on.

 

The Tomcat is more rewarding to fly.

 

The F/A-18 is more rewarding to employ.

 

The Tomcat is more limited in it's mission sets - SEAD and anti-shipping for example, whilst not impossible (an appropriately placed Mk.84 will make a mess of anything!) will require far more lenient Air Defences (or exploitation of a system weakness) for guaranteed mission success, where the Hornet can stand-off engage these targets.

[Bremspropeller]

Most answers here are good points, so I'll just add a couple of additional thoughts.

 

What are you trying to do?

What is your goal? The Hornet's mission is more akin to the Viper, while the Tomcat isn't really. It can drop some ordnance onto people, but there are no AG missiles and there's no GPS-guided stuff. Is that what you're looking for? Or are you rather looking more into "defending the fleet"? You currently cannot lase offline or without a human RIO when online. Thus LGBs won't work as easily for you as they did in the Horper (or is it Vinet?) - you'll have to rely on buddy-lasing online if you don't have a tame RIO-buddy to play with.

Playing with a RIO-buddy is a hole new level of fun.

The Tomcat may be the hardest module to fly right. Your right thumb will become fairly muscular, as the Tomcat is intensively trim-hungry. Adverse yaw is a thing.

Are you used to seeing much of the tanker while tanking? Haha, time to level up...

The Tomcat almost has as much internal gas as a Hornet with three bags, so you won't need the tanker as often - which is both cool and boring at the same time.

The Tomcat will most likely make you a better, finer polished pilot, as both the Hornet and the Viper are fairly simple in the stick-actuating department and you'll encounter several *new* things in the Tomcat right in the traffic-pattern. Or even around the boat. Be ready to be scared around the boat for the first couple of hours.

Make sure you have rudder-pedals.

 

 

You might want to think of the Hornet more as an attack-aircraft than a fighter. Think "it replaced the A-7E".

That might sound like blasphemy to some people, but it tricks your brain into not always wanting to compare it with the Viper. I like them both.

 

I for myself have figured out that changing airframes every once in a while brings me more joy than committing to them long-term. That makes it a bit harder, as you have to re-learn at lot of the *being dangerous to others and not just yourself* stuff. But that's also rewarding in it's own way.

 

I have rather recently taken the plunge into helicopters - and I thought they had the cooties. Turned out, it was an entirely new dimension of fun.

And I'm very much looking forward to flying missions with several modules and several people in them each interacting. With the choppers currently in the cue, there's a lot of additional potential coming down the pipe. I'm a sucker for options - the more, the merrier.

 

 

[Jayhawk1971]

The Tomcat will make you want to grow a stache, wear a Cowboy hat, listen to Iron Maiden and drive an '86 Corvette. The legacy Hornet OTOH will make you want to collect pocket calculators, watch "Friends", drive a Prius slightly below the speed limit (in the fast lane, of course).....and start a podcast.   

[Bremspropeller]

You forgot about the "showering together with the other dudes" and "playing volleyball-all-greased-up-in-sweat" part.

 

Then again, bothering other people in a Prius, listening to Billy Idol sounds like fun to me

[Jayhawk1971]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Bremspropeller:

 

Then again, bothering other people in a Prius, listening to Billy Idol sounds like fun to me

You don't listen to Billy Idol in a Prius. You'll listen to Kenny G.

[freehand]

2 hours ago, Jayhawk1971 said:

The Tomcat will make you want to grow a stache, wear a Cowboy hat, listen to Iron Maiden and drive an '86 Corvette. The legacy Hornet OTOH will make you want to collect pocket calculators, watch "Friends", drive a Prius slightly below the speed limit (in the fast lane, of course).....and start a podcast.   

I saw maiden before bruce dickinson joined nice pop music Motorhead original line up would fly the Hind 

[Hector45]

3 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

You currently cannot lase offline or without a human RIO when online. Thus LGBs won't work as easily for you as they did in the Horper (or is it Vinet?) - you'll have to rely on buddy-lasing online if you don't have a tame RIO-buddy to play with.

 

There is a handy mod you can get that lets you map the LPOD controls to the pilot letting you control it like the RIO would. It works in single and multiplayer. Also a lot of the multiplayer servers have JTAC's in the air that can lase for you, just be sure to punch in the proper laser codes while on deck since you cannot change once you're airborn unlike the Hornet.

 

 

[Spurts]

8 hours ago, Thundercat710 said:

Disliking the F-18 is a pre-requisite for liking the F-14

HAHAHA!

[Uxi]

I got the Hornet first and honestly wasn't quite clicking with me.  I mean great detail, certainly functional... just wasn't ringing my bell.  The Tomcat at first was bewildering with semi useless HUD, kept losing control and spinning when trying to land on the ground... As I got to know and appreciate the raw performance of the Tomcat and where she excels in raw thrust and endurance, though I also began to appreciate the refinement and technological improvements in the Hornet and now enjoy both greatly though am still easily 3 to 1 in hours of Tomcat vs Hornet. 

 

Muscle car is the best analogy for the Tomcat while the Hornet is the luxury coupe. 

[Hobo 1-1]

12 hours ago, Thundercat710 said:

Disliking the F-18 is a pre-requisite for liking the F-14

But I love the F-18. I have the most sim hours in the 18 and it’s not even close. That will change eventually as I’m pretty much flying the Tomcat now, but I really like the F-18. I like everything about the module, just prefer the Tomcat because of my own personal “wants” around what I consider fun. When the A model launched I got absolutely wrecked for asking on Reddit (basically) what the big deal is? A less powerful Tomcat? Compressor stalls? Whoppie! I said that (can’t believe it now, but I did). 

 

Like another poster, I also prefer the Huey precisely because there’s so much stick and rudder work. It’s just a preference, not meant as a judgement against others. One suggestion I have for any sim pilot is pick up the Huey and learn the basics. It will make you a better sim pilot all around. Trust me - it’s a fun module and the finesse it requires rubs off on all the other modules you might fly. 
 

One last thing - I’d be damn happy to fly high cover for anyone on SAW doing the pew-pew in the weeds. If you see me on, and you want a missile-monkey in one sexy jet to go ballistic on bad guys (or look semi good while getting shot down so you don’t) shout out on 253 or 136. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Palmetto 1-1

[veenee]

8 hours ago, Jayhawk1971 said:

The Tomcat will make you want to grow a stache, wear a Cowboy hat, listen to Iron Maiden and drive an '86 Corvette. The legacy Hornet OTOH will make you want to collect pocket calculators, watch "Friends", drive a Prius slightly below the speed limit (in the fast lane, of course).....and start a podcast.   

I like 'Friends'....but can't stand legacy Hornet....something's wrong then

[Dangerzone]

10 hours ago, Palmetto 1-1 said:

Like another poster, I also prefer the Huey precisely because there’s so much stick and rudder work. It’s just a preference, not meant as a judgement against others. One suggestion I have for any sim pilot is pick up the Huey and learn the basics. It will make you a better sim pilot all around. Trust me - it’s a fun module and the finesse it requires rubs off on all the other modules you might fly. 

 

Looks like where you get your enjoyment from and I are on similar wavelengths. 

 

Having just started in the F14 for a trial - so far I've found it both challenging and rewarding. I've found having a real human RIO for me really changed the dynamics. Not yet ready to commit - will give it some time, but so far with the limited time I've had after going to trial, I'm really enjoying this.... and I haven't even managed to get to the stage of being really immersive by playing "playin' with the boyz", or "danger zone" while flying it yet. 

 

For A-G operations, I suspect the Hornet will always be my go-to aircraft. But at this stage I'm thinking it will be nice to have a choice between Hornet and Tomcat for CAP operations to shake things up a bit.   But what I'm really being drawn to is that there is less to learn / get into it - but far more to practice skill wise to be proficient. 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Dangerzone

[SCPanda]

F-16 is just the best multi-role jet ever developed. Keep flying the F-16. 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

I fly in DCS the FA-18C first, still love it.  F-14A/B is the third plane module I buy, well, from an onlooker PoV, if you love planes, who doesn't love the turkey?

 

Learning both planes are of different story. I do not get a human RIO to fly with for I never fly online, the Hornet has a lot of things to cater for, if and only if, you wish to learn everything. If you stick to getting to one thing at a time, say dogfighting, it is actually not that hard, but having fun or not, it varies. At least I find it is way better than the DCS F-15C.

 

I am still learning to fly the F-14 and waiting for @Prez to complete his excellent "DCS F-14 Tomcat for Dummies" series (I am not rushing). After watching that 3-part dogfight tutorial series by GR, you can get the feeling of how to fly the plane, in case one does not want to spend the time downloading the module through free-to-try programme.

 

As for the RAZBAM stuffs, I do not have any of them so I cannot comment. I only know some of the players out there have, shall I say, very strong feelings about this company.

Edited August 13, 2021 by VFGiPJP

[Bremspropeller]

20 hours ago, veenee said:

I like 'Friends'....but can't stand legacy Hornet....something's wrong then

 

You sound like your favourite character is Ross.

[WarbossPetross]

12.08.2021 в 18:15, Uxi сказал:

As I got to know and appreciate the raw performance of the Tomcat and where she excels in raw thrust and endurance, though I also began to appreciate the refinement and technological improvements in the Hornet and now enjoy both greatly though am still easily 3 to 1 in hours of Tomcat vs Hornet.

 

12.08.2021 в 20:48, Palmetto 1-1 сказал:

But I love the F-18. I have the most sim hours in the 18 and it’s not even close. That will change eventually as I’m pretty much flying the Tomcat now, but I really like the F-18. I like everything about the module, just prefer the Tomcat because of my own personal “wants” around what I consider fun. When the A model launched I got absolutely wrecked for asking on Reddit (basically) what the big deal is? A less powerful Tomcat? Compressor stalls? Whoppie! I said that (can’t believe it now, but I did). 

 

Like another poster, I also prefer the Huey precisely because there’s so much stick and rudder work. It’s just a preference, not meant as a judgement against others. One suggestion I have for any sim pilot is pick up the Huey and learn the basics. It will make you a better sim pilot all around. Trust me - it’s a fun module and the finesse it requires rubs off on all the other modules you might fly.

This. At one time I struggled with maintaining energy and landing (on the ground, the carrier is a different story all along). Then I bought some warbirds and after a fair share of falling like a ton of rocks I started to more or less hold myself in the air and arrive on the ground in one piece. I then fired up my good old MiG-15 and was amazed how easy it was to haul around. And that made me realise how wrong I was before, writing cheques the machine couldn't cash! And all of a sudden Yak-52 starts making an awful lot of senseFBW or not, the older planes have a lot of tricks to teach dem youngins.

 

5 часов назад, VFGiPJP сказал:

I fly in DCS the FA-18C first, still love it.  F-14A/B is the third plane module I buy, well, from an onlooker PoV, if you love planes, who doesn't love the turkey?

 

Learning both planes are of different story. I do not get a human RIO to fly with for I never fly online, the Hornet has a lot of things to cater for, if and only if, you wish to learn everything. If you stick to getting to one thing at a time, say dogfighting, it is actually not that hard, but having fun or not, it varies. At least I find it is way better than the DCS F-15C.

 

I am still learning to fly the F-14 and waiting for @Prez to complete his excellent "DCS F-14 Tomcat for Dummies" series (I am not rushing). After watching that 3-part dogfight tutorial series by GR, you can get the feeling of how to fly the plane, in case one does not want to spend the time downloading the module through free-to-try programme.

 

As for the RAZBAM stuffs, I do not have any of them so I cannot comment. I only know some of the players out there have, shall I say, very strong feelings about this company.

 

The need for human RIO is relative, in fact I tend to do BVR from the back seat, Iceman does perfectly fine before the merge once you get the hang of the menus. The conversation about Razbam has more to do with their general business strategy, I own all three of their current modules and so far they are very good.

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by WarbossPetross

[veenee]

On 8/13/2021 at 4:20 PM, Bremspropeller said:

 

You sound like your favourite character is Ross.

how did you know?!?!?

[Bremspropeller]

WE...WERE...IN...THE...BREAK!