requested Proposal for VR head limits implementation

[Nodak]

Take the wheels and swivel off the office chairs and you won't suffer these issues.  Anyone using VR from a fixed seat knows this is utter bull crap.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Nodak

[Dunx]

I find it very hard to believe that ED are actually considering adding more to the already exhauseted VR pipeline.

[kablamoman]

Yikes… Looks like a lot of arguing over nothing in here.

I don’t know if people read the original post (looks like a few were merged) but the whole point of it was to have hard limits as an option for those that want it and soft limits still available for those that didn’t (and no limits at all as an option on servers that allow it or offline).

In my mind, nothing is taken away from anybody in that scenario.

Nobody would be forced to get sick.

Again, for the record, I am a VR user advocating for this.

[Convexrook]

Solution: Fade to black/ grey screen when you poke your head through cockpit. Similar to black out effect or this:

[peachmonkey]

not to feed the famous non-vr troll in the vr section I think ED should focus on fixing the spotting/LOD issues within 2 mile radius around the player.

As it currently stands if you miss the Distant LOD -> Close LOD transition and lose sight of the aircraft because it merges with the background no amount of "peeking outside of the canopy" can help you when the said aircraft magically appears on your six like a freaking ghost.

edit:  this may be applicable to VR only. I don't know how it works/looks in 2D.

Edited December 2, 2021 by peachmonkey
edit: this is applicable to VR only. I don't know how it works/looks in 2D.

[Magic Zach]

On 12/2/2021 at 10:38 AM, kablamoman said:

Yikes… Looks like a lot of arguing over nothing in here.

I don’t know if people read the original post (looks like a few were merged) but the whole point of it was to have hard limits as an option for those that want it and soft limits still available for those that didn’t (and no limits at all as an option on servers that allow it or offline).

In my mind, nothing is taken away from anybody in that scenario.

Nobody would be forced to get sick.

Again, for the record, I am a VR user advocating for this.

This, it's an option.
Gotta admit though some of the twisted arguments from these pushing against adding limits are hilarious though, good for a laugh for sure.
Besides them saying no is if anything more just the same enforcement but in reverse.  I don't want a jank VR experience, I want one that was obviously refined, for a better and more experience in the cockpit.  I don't want the current jank experience to be enforced on me like everyone arguing against these limits is doing.  Oh, the hypocrisy

Edited December 10, 2021 by Magic Zach

[horstweihrauch]

I played the other sim today for the first time using VR. The warping effect of the cockpit, when moving the head to the side, is ugly and feels very weird. Glad it’s not like this in DCS

[draconus]

On 11/29/2021 at 8:02 AM, Nodak said:

Take the wheels and swivel off the office chairs and you won't suffer these issues.  Anyone using VR from a fixed seat knows this is utter bull crap.

Looks like ED can already implement any limit. You wouldn't even notice. Just like all naysayers who just don't get to the limits in the first place.

[cfrag]

On 12/11/2021 at 12:49 AM, draconus said:

Looks like ED can already implement any limit. You wouldn't even notice.

That sounds like good news indeed. Have you tried this yourself? What does it feel like when head and HMD de-synch? It should be somewhat noticeable because the immediate reference points (cockpit) stop moving with your head. I'm really looking forward to seeing this. 

[draconus]

26 minutes ago, cfrag said:

That sounds like good news

There's no news. Only sarcasm.

I'm looking forward to that too.

[Creep]

bump... curious where this is in the priority list for ED, what the level of effort is, etc. who is the right person to ask / tag?

[Creep]

[Magic Zach]

On 4/8/2022 at 10:02 AM, Creep said:

bump... curious where this is in the priority list for ED, what the level of effort is, etc. who is the right person to ask / tag?

Considering that it's already implemented in a way for 2D users, I'd think at minimum that same boundary but in VR would work fine.  So, the actual work needed to do this would be minimal, looking at other tasks in ED's pipeline.  Then give people the VR option to turn it on/off as they want, and it's golden.

[Magic Zach]

Ah, ah, ah, ah, stayin' alive.  Stayin' alive.  Ah, ah, ah, ah, stayin' aliiii-

[Creep]

 

[Magic Zach]

A couple of us got to talking about this again.  Really would be a good feature, especially in the WWII aircraft to increase that "lid on the coffin" effect.
Also it's weird when all the VR players can stick their head outside the aircraft to look underneath them without hardly rolling over

[sirrah]

You, and a few others in this thread, made your point. There's really no need to bump this thread each month @Magic Zach.

 

Please remember that many, if not most DCS players couldn't care less about this. Also, as said before in this thread by many that actually did try VR; there really isn't a proper way to implement a head limiter for VR users, other than an actual physical barrier.

[kablamoman]

21 hours ago, sirrah said:

Please remember that many, if not most DCS players couldn't care less about this. Also, as said before in this thread by many that actually did try VR; there really isn't a proper way to implement a head limiter for VR users, other than an actual physical barrier.

Disagree. I believe the majority of VR users would really appreciate some more love given to the implementation, in the form of options for the users related to head limits. Still don't get why anybody would advocate against it -- either the options would be welcomed, or you wouldn't use them and their existence wouldn't affect the way you enjoy the game, anyway.

Edited January 17, 2023 by kablamoman

[Baldrick33]

1 hour ago, kablamoman said:

Still don't get why anybody would advocate against it -- either the options would be welcomed, or you wouldn't use them and their existence wouldn't affect the way you enjoy the game, anyway.

 

It depends whether the implementation is deemed for immersion - those that hate it the sim lets them accidentally stick their head out of the window - and is a totally user controlled option

Or is a "realism" option to cater for those who believe VR users have an unfair advantage wing walking to spot the enemy in the blind spot so demand it is a server controlled option.

Once the option is added client side how long before it is demanded to be a server side option? 

It isn't risk free - it could become a barrier to entry on multiplayer servers for those that would get nauseous if the world suddenly moves with the headset which fixed limits would do.

[sirrah]

1 hour ago, kablamoman said:

Disagree. I believe the majority of VR users would really appreciate some more love given to the implementation, in the form of options for the users related to head limits. Still don't get why anybody would advocate against it -- either the options would be welcomed, or you wouldn't use them and their existence wouldn't affect the way you enjoy the game, anyway.

 

Well, I'm not against more options. To each their own . But, as @Baldrick33 also mentioned, this will have an effect on the DCS MP scene. And imho, a negative effect. (Casual) MP servers, with a proper amount of active players are already very scarce (only ones that come to mind, but I'm no hardcore MP player, are the Buddyspike and 4YA servers).

 

A nauseating VR head limiter (which is what it is, no matter how it's implemented), will cause even more strain on the already exhausted MP servers.

 

Personally; I don't play MP often (and never pvp) I couldn't be bothered too much, but what does bother me is the apparent feeling of injustice non-VR users seem to have over VR users. Sure, being able to stick your head through the canopy might help you in combat, but there are also many advantages pancake users have over VR users, that you don't hear anyone complaining about.

Personally 2 ; In my opinion, people should stop trying to make DCS MP into some sort of 100% "fair" experience. There's so much of influence preventing just that. Some have build an entire pit with replica HOTAS, some use a mouse/keyboard, some use a 19" screen 1080p, some use a 27" curved 4K screen with Track-IR. Let's just face and accept that DCS MP will never be as fair/competitive as for instance a CS:GO, Call of Duty, or stuff like that. In fact, war is hardly ever "fair" irl, so in that respect, DCS MP is currently actually very realistic  

[draconus]

1 hour ago, Baldrick33 said:

which fixed limits would do.

You assumed hard limit but it was not yet decided whether or not there will be any limits, much less what kind of implementation it would be.

Edited January 17, 2023 by draconus

[Baldrick33]

3 hours ago, draconus said:

You assumed hard limit but it was not yet decided whether or not there will be any limits, much less what kind of implementation it would be.

 

Agreed. I just think some think this is a simple quick and easy fix - just like the "other" sim, whereas it needs a properly thought out design IMHO which is more involved (and time/resource consuming)

[kablamoman]

Nobody is advocating for a "nauseating head limiter".

The whole point of the original thread was the opposite.

[Baldrick33]

1 hour ago, kablamoman said:

Nobody is advocating for a "nauseating head limiter".

The whole point of the original thread was the opposite.

I guess until we see an alternative to hard limits working in practice it is hard to advocate for it.

You state that "either the options would be welcomed, or you wouldn't use them and their existence wouldn't affect the way you enjoy the game" yet your proposal is to give server owners the option to force limits, so they would affect the way we enjoy the game on those servers.

The question is whether soft limits would work for those that find hard limits nauseating (or simply horrible). Judging by the reaction to the Apache helmet visibility in VR it could create more problems than it solves. Maybe not but I think it is why some are luke warm to the proposal.

 

[Magic Zach]

On 1/17/2023 at 9:44 PM, Baldrick33 said:

It depends whether the implementation is deemed for immersion - those that hate it the sim lets them accidentally stick their head out of the window - and is a totally user controlled option

Or is a "realism" option to cater for those who believe VR users have an unfair advantage wing walking to spot the enemy in the blind spot so demand it is a server controlled option.

Once the option is added client side how long before it is demanded to be a server side option? 

It isn't risk free - it could become a barrier to entry on multiplayer servers for those that would get nauseous if the world suddenly moves with the headset which fixed limits would do.

Well, VR users will typically get VR for the purpose of immersion.  It doesn't really have too many advtanges in combat effectiveness versus flatscreen.  So already the most definite answer will be immersion. Fairness is knowledgebly thrown out of the window the moment you put on VR.  Trying to make everyone use the same setting isn't the goal.  It's for personal level of immersion.  And it's broken horribly every time I look back and my head pops out the glass.  But this is why this option is best used as a client-side option.

Not sure what's being implied by "soft limits" but if this that suggestion where the display is just made black when you poke your head outside the canopy, that is even worse than the problem originally trying to be solved.

On 1/18/2023 at 7:39 AM, kablamoman said:

Nobody is advocating for a "nauseating head limiter".

The whole point of the original thread was the opposite.

And frankly it's not even that bad or nauseating, hard limits on your view in VR.  And if you do initially feel that way, you get used to it incredibly quickly.  This isn't a standing VR game where that kind of stuff has that big of an effect.  Our butts are planted, we're always grounded to where we are.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Magic Zach