correct as-is Cold start procedure changed, buggy or user error?

[AstonMartinDBS]

Since last OB (2.7.10.18996) I'm unable to start up my cold and dark viper as usual.

Pre 2.7.10 we had to set the JET FUEL switch into position 2. APU spools up to > 20 % as usual, but since 2.7.10 nothing happens, when I move the Throttle to the IDLE POSITION, as soon as the RPM gauge moves >= 20 %.

F-16C ColdStart JETFUEL2.trk

 

The Viper only starts up when I set the JET FUEL switch to 1.

F-16C ColdStart JETFUEL1.trk

 

There is no related note in the OB Changelog.

Is the current behaviour a bug or is it correct, that we have to set the JET FUEL switch to position 1 instead of 2?

Or am I doin' something wrong?

Edited January 30, 2022 by AstonMartinDBS

[Northstar98]

You need to make sure that the SEC caution light extinguishes before advancing to idle. In your start 2 track, you advanced to idle before the SEC caution light extinguished.

What I do is instead of advancing to idle at 20%, I wait until the SEC caution light extinguishes and only once RPM has stabilised (at about 25%) advance to idle, it takes a little bit longer (maybe 15 seconds, if that), but you shouldn't run into any issues with hung starts.

F-16CM_START_2.trk

Edited June 20, 2022 by Northstar98

[fagulha]

No issues whatsoever here in starting the aircraft, better review your start up (as stated). 

Keep up.

[AstonMartinDBS]

49 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

You need to make sure that the SEC caution light extinguishes before advancing to idle.

You're right - it was just an user error.

I've never noticed the SEC caution light until now. Thanks for reviewing my tracks @Northstar98.

[Carbon715]

was going to say...SEC light

[JetCat]

On 1/30/2022 at 1:02 PM, Northstar98 said:

You need to make sure that the SEC caution light extinguishes before advancing to idle. In your start 2 track, you advanced to idle before the SEC caution light extinguished.

Can you please tell me where the SEC caution light is positioned in the cockpit? I was always looking for N1 fan rotation speed gauge climbing over 20% N1 before putting the thrust lever to idle.

By the way I found another potential bug... When watching real F-16 videos the ITT temperatur rises only to 800°C or 810°C, but when I start the turbine ITT always rises to 950-980°C celsius temperature. Sometimes ITT only rises to 880°C but I haven´t found out under which conditions this is happening. Am I doing something wrong during the startup or is this a bug?

[Deano87]

The SEC light is on your main warning light panel just in front of the stick, near your right knee.

And regarding your ITT, I haven’t checked but if you’re adding fuel early (which it sounds like you may be) you could be getting a hot start. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Deano87

[Frederf]

The rule is 20% for the GE-129 which is before SEC light extinguish. Waiting for the light to extinguish should always work but it should be possible a little before. In some weather you can't even get the rated RPM so you just have to go the maximum attainable even if it's less.

[Northstar98]

14 hours ago, JetCat said:

By the way I found another potential bug... When watching real F-16 videos the ITT temperatur rises only to 800°C or 810°C, but when I start the turbine ITT always rises to 950-980°C celsius temperature. Sometimes ITT only rises to 880°C but I haven´t found out under which conditions this is happening. Am I doing something wrong during the startup or is this a bug?

Yeah, I always get hot starts, every single time, and that's with going the long method of waiting for RPM to stabilise (at about 25%) before advancing to idle.

13 hours ago, Frederf said:

The rule is 20% for the GE-129 which is before SEC light extinguish. Waiting for the light to extinguish should always work but it should be possible a little before. In some weather you can't even get the rated RPM so you just have to go the maximum attainable even if it's less.

I'm guessing engine behaviour is still something ED needs to work on.

[Datajack]

Watching RPM to 20% and waiting for SEC light to extinguish works 100% of the time for me.

[AstonMartinDBS]

On 2/2/2022 at 9:47 PM, JetCat said:

Can you please tell me where the SEC caution light is positioned in the cockpit?

[Cookie01]

On 2/2/2022 at 9:47 PM, JetCat said:

By the way I found another potential bug... When watching real F-16 videos the ITT temperatur rises only to 800°C or 810°C, but when I start the turbine ITT always rises to 950-980°C celsius temperature. Sometimes ITT only rises to 880°C but I haven´t found out under which conditions this is happening. Am I doing something wrong during the startup or is this a bug?

AFAIK, Engine Simulation is still being worked on, same with SEC Mode.. if you snap your throttle to mil power, your engine RPM stalls, vs IRL it should follow your throttle command without stalling.
as i said.. the whole engine simulation is WIP

[ldl01031]

Newbie question here. I can't get my engine to spool past the 20% mark. I'm fairly sure I'm doing everything right, based on (relatively) recent videos on performing a cold start. I'm using a WINWING Orion HOTAS F-16EX that seems to be working fine. But I'm clearly missing something

Most basic steps (this should work, right?)

- Power on
- JFS Start 2
- Wait for SEC light
- Move throttle up to idle
Engine should spool up, yes?

I should mention I've gone through all the more detailed steps as well, multiple times, and waited a 'long time' to ensure nothing ever happened (and tried moving the throttle way up, etc.).

Thoughts?

 

[itn]

After JFS you wait for engine to spool up to at least 20% RPM. If you want to be sure, wait for the RPM to stabilize and SEC light to extinguish (NOT lit anymore).

In practice you can advance throttle to idle a bit before SEC is off but we're talking seconds here, like Northstar98 said on the second post to this thread, also marked as Solution. There's no reason to rush. If you're too early, you need a new jet or repair, so never go too early. You can actually run the JFS for quite a while, so there's never a reason to go too early and risk not having a good start.

If you still have issues starting up, make sure your jet has fuel. For example in many MP servers you start with empty jet.

[ldl01031]

Thanks. I'm spooled up to 22% or so (and stable), and SEC light is out. Since this is a 'cold dark start practice' built-in mission, I have fuel.

I half think the jet isn't recognizing the throttle for some reason. That's why I specified my HOTAS set-up, in case I'm missing something there.

[_SteelFalcon_]

17 minutes ago, ldl01031 said:

Thanks. I'm spooled up to 22% or so (and stable), and SEC light is out. Since this is a 'cold dark start practice' built-in mission, I have fuel.

I half think the jet isn't recognizing the throttle for some reason. That's why I specified my HOTAS set-up, in case I'm missing something there.

If you move the throttle axis, does the throttle in the jet also move from the off to the idle position? You might have to bind a key for that, or set your axis up to include off and idle positions

Edited June 20, 2022 by _SteelFalcon_

[arb65912]

2 hours ago, _SteelFalcon_ said:

You might have to bind a key for that, or set your axis up to include off and idle positions

How do you do that? Please explain. I used keys bind to move throttle to idle but with joystick would be better. Thanks!

[_SteelFalcon_]

25 minutes ago, arb65912 said:

How do you do that? Please explain. I used keys bind to move throttle to idle but with joystick would be better. Thanks!

there's buttons that can be bound in the controls that basically set throttle from OFF to IDLE and another to set from IDLE to OFF. there might even be one that toggles the state IDLE/OFF.
For axis settings i dont know. it definitely is possible to set up within some software (depending on your joystick of course) to define the first say 5% of your axis range to act as a button. this would work well probably with Throttle quadrants with physical detents. so you could set the idle detent where your throttle range reaches 5%.

drawback of such a "virtual button" is obviously, that you'd sacrifice some axis range and depending on how much range your throttle has, it can make fine adjustments a little tricky, for AAR or formation flying as an example. but i personally havent tried it myself, so i dont really have any experience with that. i use 2 buttons, one from off to idle, and one from idle to off. and it works perfectly fine

i'm sure some guys can describe it a lot better and there may even be some youtube tutorials on such things.

[arb65912]

8 hours ago, _SteelFalcon_ said:

there's buttons that can be bound in the controls that basically set throttle from OFF to IDLE and another to set from IDLE to OFF. there might even be one that toggles the state IDLE/OFF.
For axis settings i dont know. it definitely is possible to set up within some software (depending on your joystick of course) to define the first say 5% of your axis range to act as a button. this would work well probably with Throttle quadrants with physical detents. so you could set the idle detent where your throttle range reaches 5%.

drawback of such a "virtual button" is obviously, that you'd sacrifice some axis range and depending on how much range your throttle has, it can make fine adjustments a little tricky, for AAR or formation flying as an example. but i personally havent tried it myself, so i dont really have any experience with that. i use 2 buttons, one from off to idle, and one from idle to off. and it works perfectly fine

i'm sure some guys can describe it a lot better and there may even be some youtube tutorials on such things.

Thank you very much for the response.

Actually, after reading some more I figured out how it was done.

I understand about disadvantage of assigning all to axis and losing some range.

I will experiment more with that and will see.

Thank you again!!!!

 

[ldl01031]

Got it. Hitting right-shift-home did the trick. Note: not the numeric keyboard 'home' key - the one to the left of the numeric keyboard - at least on my keyboard.

Awesome. Now I can look at campaigns, etc. Thanks!