Loukuins Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 3 hours ago, fab.13 said: Not surprised. The goal of the new windows 10 fullscreen mode is to give Maximum Framerates as good as ALT-ENTER FSE give to us ( see microsoft blog ) Could you do the same test with In-game V-Sync OFF an NV V-Sync ON ? For now, DCS 2.8 has stutters when V-SYNC is turned on on your rig. We need to find other player that meet this problem or ask to @flappie to help us about this problem. Just Force V-Sync OFF in the nvidia control panel and you're good to go My Setup : i5-4690 3.50GHz + 24GB RAM DDR3 1600MHz + MSI RTX 2060 Super Ventus OC + 2 SSD + 4 HDD + Oculus Rift CV1 + TM T.16000M Hotas Super Etendard for Life ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosterdog Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 @fab.13 i may have a couple of hours today to help. Please tell me exactly what combinations you want to test. Also how you want me to start the game ( launch play v launch altenter play v tabbing out. MSI Tomahawk X570 Mobo, Ryzen 5600X undervolted on Artic Freezer E34 Cooler, RTX3080 FE, 32GB (2x16GB Dual Ranked) GSkil 3600 CL16 Trident Neo RAM, 2X 4th Gen M2 SSDs, Corsair RM850x PSU, Lancool 215 Case. Gear: MFG Crosswinds, Warthog Throttle, Virpil T50CM gen 1 stick, TIR5, Cougar MFD (OOA), D-link H7/B powered USB 2.0 Hub all strapped to a butchered Wheel stand pro, Cushion to bang head on, wall to scream at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fab.13 Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 The first test is to run dcs 2.8 full stock ( no mod ) in 2D with fullscreen on and v sync on 60hz ( dcs or Nvidia ) Art-j have some stutters when using v-sync Second test will be about alt-tab ( Check that dcs is still in fullscreen mode when returning to Game ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosterdog Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 @fab.13 Test 1 IN GAME - Vsync ON Full Screen on NO autoexec fix NCP Vsync OFF Mission launches without EFS (windows volume window is visible when altering volume from keyboard). Game has apparent frame pacing problems and does not run smoothly Alt- Tab switches focus – no effect on game Alt-Enter does not work Test 2 IN GAME - Vsync ON Full Screen on autoexec fix applied NCP Vsync – Use application setting Mission launches WITH EFS (windows volume window is NOT visible when altering volume from keyboard). Game has NO apparent frame pacing problems and runs smoothly Alt- Tab switches focus – Tabbing back to game EFS is not enforced (windows volume window is visible when altering volume from keyboard) HOWEVER game continues to run smoothly with little of no frame pacing issues Alt-Enter after Alt-Tabbing back returns game to FSE ( (windows volume window is visible when altering volume from keyboard). Since the second 2.8 beta patch, I have noticed that the game reliably launches in FSE with the autoexec fix applied. Prior to this patch it required a single Alt-Enter. Moreover, even when alt-tabbing and returning to the game where FSE (in the old sense) is not applied, the game continues to run smoothly (although not quite as smoothly as in FSE when it is pushed graphically perhaps - difficult to tell). I run no updates on my Win 10 install. Game is stock. Specs in my sig. Track used (AH64 Caucasues) and game settings attached. Stutters SC.trk MSI Tomahawk X570 Mobo, Ryzen 5600X undervolted on Artic Freezer E34 Cooler, RTX3080 FE, 32GB (2x16GB Dual Ranked) GSkil 3600 CL16 Trident Neo RAM, 2X 4th Gen M2 SSDs, Corsair RM850x PSU, Lancool 215 Case. Gear: MFG Crosswinds, Warthog Throttle, Virpil T50CM gen 1 stick, TIR5, Cougar MFD (OOA), D-link H7/B powered USB 2.0 Hub all strapped to a butchered Wheel stand pro, Cushion to bang head on, wall to scream at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art-J Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 14 hours ago, fab.13 said: Could you do the same test with In-game V-Sync OFF an NV V-Sync ON ? Sure. In-game OFF, NV ON, no autoexec, FS optimisations enabled, result - stutters. Frame time remains jittery even if camera is stationary (didn't use TrackIR, just moved camera with mouse and left it there). What I'm more interested in is - why it happens mainly when looking into the cockpit and not really when looking outside (or when in F2 cam view). 2.8 allegedly brought some improved dynamic lighting of the cockpit, but it clearly doesn't play nice with Nvidia Vsync and "native" DCS Full screen. That's with Nvidia driver 526.98. i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosterdog Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 Just now, Art-J said: Sure. In-game OFF, NV ON, no autoexec, FS optimisations enabled, result - stutters. Frame time remains jittery even if camera is stationary (didn't use TrackIR, just moved camera with mouse and left it there). What I'm more interested in is - why it happens mainly when looking into the cockpit and not really when looking outside (or when in F2 cam view). 2.8 allegedly brought some improved dynamic lighting of the cockpit, but it clearly doesn't play nice with Nvidia Vsync and "native" DCS Full screen. That's with Nvidia driver 526.98. My tests were performed looking outside of the cockpit. The judders are not exclusive to the pit interior. MSI Tomahawk X570 Mobo, Ryzen 5600X undervolted on Artic Freezer E34 Cooler, RTX3080 FE, 32GB (2x16GB Dual Ranked) GSkil 3600 CL16 Trident Neo RAM, 2X 4th Gen M2 SSDs, Corsair RM850x PSU, Lancool 215 Case. Gear: MFG Crosswinds, Warthog Throttle, Virpil T50CM gen 1 stick, TIR5, Cougar MFD (OOA), D-link H7/B powered USB 2.0 Hub all strapped to a butchered Wheel stand pro, Cushion to bang head on, wall to scream at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art-J Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 ^ Yeah they happen occasionally to me when looking outside as well, but I thought it might be related to various object shadows problems that 2.8 brought and I so far I couldn't specifically narrow them down to any particular scenery feature (trees, buidings, structures). Makes troubleshooting somewhat difficult. The only 100% reproducible judder scenario on my rig is when more than, say 2/3 of the view is in the cockpit. i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosterdog Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 1 minute ago, Art-J said: ^ Yeah they happen occasionally to me when looking outside as well, but I thought it might be related to various object shadows problems that 2.8 brought and I so far I couldn't specifically narrow them down to any particular scenery feature (trees, buidings, structures). Makes troubleshooting somewhat difficult. The only 100% reproducible judder scenario on my rig is when more than, say 2/3 of the view is in the cockpit. For me its low over heavy forest. Its funny how stuff affects us all differently but perhaps this is more down to our rigs/settingsand some event horizon that throws the load somewhere else at a certain point in each unique case. My feeling personally is that certain "loads" have a greater effect than others - my shadows for instance are set to default. If I switch em off I see littlle stutter as clearly the game is breathing easy. Its only when one begins to reach the edge of the envelope (and by that I do not necessarily mean huge drops in FPS but perhaps VRAM or something) that the Alt-Enter bonus boost begins to count. MSI Tomahawk X570 Mobo, Ryzen 5600X undervolted on Artic Freezer E34 Cooler, RTX3080 FE, 32GB (2x16GB Dual Ranked) GSkil 3600 CL16 Trident Neo RAM, 2X 4th Gen M2 SSDs, Corsair RM850x PSU, Lancool 215 Case. Gear: MFG Crosswinds, Warthog Throttle, Virpil T50CM gen 1 stick, TIR5, Cougar MFD (OOA), D-link H7/B powered USB 2.0 Hub all strapped to a butchered Wheel stand pro, Cushion to bang head on, wall to scream at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fab.13 Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 (edited) Thanks The new Windows full screen mode may be not more exclusive ( sound volume is showed ) while giving good performances as FSE ( Microsoft new features , see blog ) I think we can remove the alt-tab topic for now so we have 2 players that meet the same problem ( stutter and less smooth ) with the new fullscreen mode combined with v-sync ( 2D screen ) in dcs 2.8 full stock This last topic should be a new thread in 2D bug section : « fullscreen + vsync give stutters and not smooth » ( flappie could help us to check your system ) fortunately you have a work around ( FSE ) to play with DCS but this is not supported by DCS more ever i think Edited December 3, 2022 by fab.13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art-J Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 @Boosterdog Yeah, I forgot to mention what shadow settings I use. It's: primary on medium, secondary off and terrain on flat. About the trees, I think I have a good experience with them, even on Normandy and Marianas, despite their rather poor trees optimisation. On the other hand, I use Taz's tree mod for Marianas (which contains some shadow-related tinkering) and my modest shadow settings might make things easier for my 3070. 1 i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scommander2 Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 I (2D user) have tested the stable version (2.8.1.34667.2) on my two laptops with the "autoexec" setting for "Alt-Enter", it works perfectly. Thanks ED for keeping the option. Dell XPS 9730, i9-13900H, DDR5 64GB, Discrete GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080, 1+2TB M.2 SSD, TM HOTAS Warthog/TPR, TKIR5/TrackClipPro, Win 11 Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowblind Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 (edited) Tried on my system 2d Nvidia CP Vsync Off Ingame Vsync ON Autoexec fix applied no alt enter on the latest OB edit: im stupid, i had autoexe not autoexec file it now works, however im not seeing the same performance boost it used to give when doing it Edited January 1, 2023 by Snowblind 8700k @5.2ghz delided \ Asus Maxiumus XI code \ RTX 3090 FE \ 32GB DDR4 corsair vengeance RGB @3600 \ 1TB Samsung 960 pro NVME \ 1TB samsung 850evo \ 2TB WD black HDD \ MFG crosswind v2 \ Virpil WARBRD X2 Constellation Alpha L+R and Mongoose CM3 throttle \ ASUSPG348Q 100hz 34 ultrawide [/i]https://imgur.com/a/VjNEllM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowblind Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 this alt enter fix no longer works on the multithreaded (todays open beta) 8700k @5.2ghz delided \ Asus Maxiumus XI code \ RTX 3090 FE \ 32GB DDR4 corsair vengeance RGB @3600 \ 1TB Samsung 960 pro NVME \ 1TB samsung 850evo \ 2TB WD black HDD \ MFG crosswind v2 \ Virpil WARBRD X2 Constellation Alpha L+R and Mongoose CM3 throttle \ ASUSPG348Q 100hz 34 ultrawide [/i]https://imgur.com/a/VjNEllM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loukuins Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 PLEASE FIX DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE ON THE MT !!!! My Setup : i5-4690 3.50GHz + 24GB RAM DDR3 1600MHz + MSI RTX 2060 Super Ventus OC + 2 SSD + 4 HDD + Oculus Rift CV1 + TM T.16000M Hotas Super Etendard for Life ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unicus Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 Stopped working for me as well with MT (I applied same changes in compability mode to DCS.exe in mt-bin folder). Had to revert to old DCS.exe, I can't play without alt+enter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medway Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, unicus said: Stopped working for me as well with MT (I applied same changes in compability mode to DCS.exe in mt-bin folder). Had to revert to old DCS.exe, I can't play without alt+enter So the normal exe is working for you or do you mean you saved an exe from a previous version? I'm trying the non MT exe and Alt-Enter is not working. I'm getting lots of stutters. I used to be able to run DCS really smooth but something happened. EDIT it seems it's due to objects being loaded - with nothing going on it's butter smooth so probably nothing to do with alt-enter. Edited March 10, 2023 by medway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loukuins Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 (edited) Yes using the flip mode false with MT (Witch doesn't work at all), makes the game VERY unstable with some Graphical settings not working and destroying the frame time stability And yes still no proper G-Sync support for a 2023 game, why?! Edited March 12, 2023 by Loukuins 1 My Setup : i5-4690 3.50GHz + 24GB RAM DDR3 1600MHz + MSI RTX 2060 Super Ventus OC + 2 SSD + 4 HDD + Oculus Rift CV1 + TM T.16000M Hotas Super Etendard for Life ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roostyla Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 For us with older hardware (intel 6700k) this fix was vital, for my part I had much better frame stability with using this autoexec. It stopped working with MT. I would really appreciate if it can be brought back! I assume a new command line in autoexec would do it? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosterdog Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 (edited) @BIGNEWY given the MT branch has effectively reset the clock on this should I raise it the bug section (ED say it isnt a bug and working as intended). It would perhaps keep things neater if stuff stayed here with perhaps a modifed title. Could I respectfully ask you to raise this the ED once again? Thanks Edited March 14, 2023 by Boosterdog awful spelling 1 MSI Tomahawk X570 Mobo, Ryzen 5600X undervolted on Artic Freezer E34 Cooler, RTX3080 FE, 32GB (2x16GB Dual Ranked) GSkil 3600 CL16 Trident Neo RAM, 2X 4th Gen M2 SSDs, Corsair RM850x PSU, Lancool 215 Case. Gear: MFG Crosswinds, Warthog Throttle, Virpil T50CM gen 1 stick, TIR5, Cougar MFD (OOA), D-link H7/B powered USB 2.0 Hub all strapped to a butchered Wheel stand pro, Cushion to bang head on, wall to scream at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loukuins Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 On 3/13/2023 at 8:53 AM, Boosterdog said: @BIGNEWY given the MT branch has effectively reset the clock on this should I raise it the bug section (ED say it isnt a bug and working as intended). It would perhaps keep things neater if stuff stayed here with perhaps a modifed title. Could I respectfully ask you to raise this the ED once again? Thanks Yes please ! This impact FPS and G-Sync ! My Setup : i5-4690 3.50GHz + 24GB RAM DDR3 1600MHz + MSI RTX 2060 Super Ventus OC + 2 SSD + 4 HDD + Oculus Rift CV1 + TM T.16000M Hotas Super Etendard for Life ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverdevil Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 (edited) i noticed something today. i ran ST to get the latest version. DCS started in the background (chrome was forefront. i had to click in the DCS windows to make it come forward. possibly because the update dialog is forefront. dunno. then i ran MT and it started forefront and stayed that way. clicking in my other monitor minimized DCS. clicked on icon in taskbar and the DCS came forward again. this seems to be related to the full screen questions. i use GSYNC and getting good performance. Edited March 18, 2023 by silverdevil AKA_SilverDevil AKA Forums My YouTube “It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.” — Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scommander2 Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 Are we able to the full screen back in MT yet? Dell XPS 9730, i9-13900H, DDR5 64GB, Discrete GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080, 1+2TB M.2 SSD, TM HOTAS Warthog/TPR, TKIR5/TrackClipPro, Win 11 Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosterdog Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 12 hours ago, scommander2 said: Are we able to the full screen back in MT yet? Not as far as i know. Nothing from ED on the matter. Nothing from @BIGNEWYin this thread (expected and undersatandable given the work around MT in general). MSI Tomahawk X570 Mobo, Ryzen 5600X undervolted on Artic Freezer E34 Cooler, RTX3080 FE, 32GB (2x16GB Dual Ranked) GSkil 3600 CL16 Trident Neo RAM, 2X 4th Gen M2 SSDs, Corsair RM850x PSU, Lancool 215 Case. Gear: MFG Crosswinds, Warthog Throttle, Virpil T50CM gen 1 stick, TIR5, Cougar MFD (OOA), D-link H7/B powered USB 2.0 Hub all strapped to a butchered Wheel stand pro, Cushion to bang head on, wall to scream at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Zaius Posted April 4, 2023 Share Posted April 4, 2023 Thanks to the dedicated efforts of folks on this forum I've got FS back, while trying to get it working and testing things out I noticed that the FPS differences are rather negligible however the experience really is a lot smoother in FS, I wonder then if this performance issue we're getting is more to do with TrackIR as the 'smoothness' of the sim only really makes itself obvious (to me anyway) when panning around the cockpit, which for whatever reason seems to work better in FS despite the FPS being very similar - I know there's been lots of testing by others and the general consenses is that the closer to TrackIR's 120hz refresh rate the better, for that reason I was restricting my frames to 60hz, with MT I'm able to up that to 120hz which works well but once the FPS drop away from the magic number the smoothness also suffers - are there any non-trackir users out there who prefer FS due to better performance? System Specs: Intel Core i9-9900K 3.6GHz @ 4.8GHz, Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master, 32 GB G.Skill Trident Z DDR4-3600 RAM, GeForce GTX 4090, Crucial SSD (750 GB), TrackIR 5, TMWH, TM T-Flight Rudder Pedals, Samsung 49” Odyssey G9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loukuins Posted April 6, 2023 Share Posted April 6, 2023 On 4/4/2023 at 11:16 PM, Dr Zaius said: Thanks to the dedicated efforts of folks on this forum I've got FS back, while trying to get it working and testing things out I noticed that the FPS differences are rather negligible however the experience really is a lot smoother in FS, I wonder then if this performance issue we're getting is more to do with TrackIR as the 'smoothness' of the sim only really makes itself obvious (to me anyway) when panning around the cockpit, which for whatever reason seems to work better in FS despite the FPS being very similar - I know there's been lots of testing by others and the general consenses is that the closer to TrackIR's 120hz refresh rate the better, for that reason I was restricting my frames to 60hz, with MT I'm able to up that to 120hz which works well but once the FPS drop away from the magic number the smoothness also suffers - are there any non-trackir users out there who prefer FS due to better performance? I have a G-Sync monitor with a 187Hz Delan Clip (using a G-Sync OLED 175Hz monitor) and when Open Track works the way he should I have the smoothest experience I ever had, even more with proper G-Sync implementation if ED put back Exclusive Fullscreen, I also got way smoother FPS by putting higher FPS limit (than the default 180fps) even tho my FPS didn't increased much (but it did and frametimes went down giving way more fps smootheness). Don't limit your FPS in DCS if you have a high refresh rate monitor and use the highest refresh rate of your tracking method, it will help with panning the camera around. My Setup : i5-4690 3.50GHz + 24GB RAM DDR3 1600MHz + MSI RTX 2060 Super Ventus OC + 2 SSD + 4 HDD + Oculus Rift CV1 + TM T.16000M Hotas Super Etendard for Life ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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