Alt+Enter does not enter full screen; stuck in windowed

[Art-J]

Praise the Lord fab.13 and his tests! Applied BN's autoexec tweak with NV V-sync to app controlled and DCS V-Sync to on.

Results in today's Open Beta - well, Alt-Enter does something, which doesn't affect my single flatscreen, but most importantly - my frametime graph and performance when looking around the cockpit returned to butter-smooth, 2.7 levels. Yay! Screenshots below show what happens when Alt-Entering - the game switches between choppy rendering and smooth rendering.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Art-J

[darkman222]

Can someone sum that procedure for me?

Like in that images? And what do I do next? Go in game and press alt+enter to get into full screen to get better performance?

Does not work for me. Neither alt+enter gives full screen , nor do it get my 2ms GPU frame time back I lost due to 2.8

(sorry the forum placed the images from bottom to top in wrong order, but you get the idea by my numerbering)

Edited November 17, 2022 by darkman222

[Boosterdog]

2 hours ago, darkman222 said:

Can someone sum that procedure for me?

Like in that images? And what do I do next? Go in game and press alt+enter to get into full screen to get better performance?

Does not work for me. Neither alt+enter gives full screen , nor do it get my 2ms GPU frame time back I lost due to 2.8

(sorry the forum placed the images from bottom to top in wrong order, but you get the idea by my numerbering)

 

Tick the full screen box as well as the vysnc box in the game graphics options

Presuming you use nvidia go to the control panel, ensure you have a profile for “DCS black shark.exe” and set the vsync option in there to “off” if you do not wish to have vsync operate in full screen or “application controlled” if you do 

The game should launch in exclusive full screen mode and you should not have to do anything. To check (and if you can alter the volume in windows from your keyboard) , if the volume slider shows up when you adjust the volume you are not in exclusive but if it doesn’t you are .

Sometimes in the past I’ve had to alt enter twice to get it to work but since most of 2021 it worked straight off  

 

[Werewolf_fs]

I tried this, two things:

1- No matter what I do with V sinyc, on / off / full screen in DCS or NCP, my mirror is always black and doesn't cover everything on the screen even though I press ALT+ENT (2560x1440 screen resolution, 12900k, 3090 and Reverb G2)

2- I gain about 1 - 1.2 ms in GPU time, but you have to activate something in DX11 compatibility mode?, because the visual quality of the scenery/land drops a lot, especially in the distance, it seems that MSAAx2 does not apply

Conclusion for me... gaining 1ms GPU and losing image quality... no thanks.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Werewolf_fs

[Loukuins]

16 hours ago, Werewolf_fs said:

I tried this, two things:

1- No matter what I do with V sinyc, on / off / full screen in DCS or NCP, my mirror is always black and doesn't cover everything on the screen even though I press ALT+ENT (2560x1440 screen resolution, 12900k, 3090 and Reverb G2)

2- I gain about 1 - 1.2 ms in GPU time, but you have to activate something in DX11 compatibility mode?, because the visual quality of the scenery/land drops a lot, especially in the distance, it seems that MSAAx2 does not apply

Conclusion for me... gaining 1ms GPU and losing image quality... no thanks.

 

Seems an issue on your end, I have no issue with the V-Sync Workaround, do you have in game Fullscreen ticked aswell as V-Sync ?
You can disable V-Sync via your Nvidia Control panel

[fab.13]

19 hours ago, Werewolf_fs said:

I tried this, two things:

1- No matter what I do with V sinyc, on / off / full screen in DCS or NCP, my mirror is always black and doesn't cover everything on the screen even though I press ALT+ENT (2560x1440 screen resolution, 12900k, 3090 and Reverb G2)

2- I gain about 1 - 1.2 ms in GPU time, but you have to activate something in DX11 compatibility mode?, because the visual quality of the scenery/land drops a lot, especially in the distance, it seems that MSAAx2 does not apply

Conclusion for me... gaining 1ms GPU and losing image quality... no thanks.

 

Hello, i have not noticed quality loose in my test ( i fly in VR only ), i will test about msaa 

Fullscreen mode is à Windows mode that let the program to use the full Power of the gpu for itself ( and not Sharing ressources with windows desktop ), nothing should be related to quality as decribed by Microsoft

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/demystifying-full-screen-optimizations/

A great deal of occulus user were used to use this windows mode ( for performances and confined cursor) until a récent patch Brooke this capability, but this mode helps in 2D too

And thanks to this thread, a workaround exist !

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by fab.13

[biotech]

It ain't working...
Those "flipmode" lines in autoexec.cfg make antialiasing ruined (while you MUST use AA in DCS VR). Not surprisingly, that fps boosted without AA.

Edited November 19, 2022 by biotech

[Art-J]

On 11/18/2022 at 1:40 AM, Boosterdog said:

The game should launch in exclusive full screen mode and you should not have to do anything.

On my side, with all these settings  I actually have to Alt-Enter on first mission launch (lile in good 2.5.6-2.7 times), otherwise my frametime graph is a jittery mess and in-cockpit stuttering appears (ie. - "normal" 2.8 problem). I don't have to repeat it during the rest of DCS session.

[Werewolf_fs]

WMR for STEAMVR has a Force DX11 Mode graphics option and what I see is that when I put the line: dx11backend = {flipMode = false,} in the aotoexec.cfg, the loss of image quality reminds me of what it looks like when you force said dx11 mode. That's why I ask if that mode is forced with this option somehow or messes up the MSAA in some way

I always used ALT-Enter with DCS until the option disappeared,  I noticed a slight improvement whenever i've used it. Now with this modifier, there is ONLY a slight improvement in 1ms GPU and whatever I do with Vsync, the mirror is always black and doesn't cover the whole screen... After many tests, my personal preference is to put the resolution of the vr mirror same of the game, even if it involves losing 1-2ms of gpu, black vr mirror and loss image quality is not practical.  

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Werewolf_fs

[fab.13]

On 11/19/2022 at 6:21 PM, biotech said:

It ain't working...
Those "flipmode" lines in autoexec.cfg make antialiasing ruined (while you MUST use AA in DCS VR). Not surprisingly, that fps boosted without AA.

 

Hello,

I never has been using AA in VR on my side..
We need people to test in order to get pros and cons about ALT-ENTER, thanks

For now,
- ALT ENTER fix seem to be useful for 2D players  ( and since many years !  )
- ALT ENTER fix seem to give better performances for VR Oculus Player but quality is affected  ( missing some AA )
- ALT ENTER fix is not useful WMR player

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/demystifying-full-screen-optimizations/

Microsoft says that their new feature about full screen windowing give good result ,it seems it is not so good when testing DCS. Tests are better when using the Classic ALT-ENTER mode ( FSE )

Maybe DCS settings should allow to chose between Classic FSE and the new Windows 10 full screen optimisation in ordre to get the better experience.

One next topic is about quality ( MSAA ) that some testers of this fix have reported  (not working anymore in WMR )

Edited November 26, 2022 by fab.13

[AJaromir]

As far as I found it work as it is intended. The devs did intentionally disable the "Alt+enter" feature.

[fab.13]

16 minutes ago, AJaromir said:

As far as I found it work as it is intended. The devs did intentionally disable the "Alt+enter" feature.

Yes,

The microsoft blog said there is an option to get the classic FSE if needed ( performances issues... )

So we tried to restore FSE in this thread ( for many reason )
and classic FSE seems to get better performances than the "new Windows 10 fullscreen optimisation"

So an option or setting to re-enable the "alt-enter" feature could be very useful for many players ( 2D and Occulus VR )

Edited November 22, 2022 by fab.13

[AJaromir]

Aha. Thank you for explanation. Did you also try to fiddle with Windows GPU hardware shceduling?

Edit: I mean the The hardware-accelerated GPU scheduling.

Edited November 22, 2022 by AJaromir

[fab.13]

2 hours ago, AJaromir said:

Aha. Thank you for explanation. Did you also try to fiddle with Windows GPU hardware shceduling?

Edit: I mean the The hardware-accelerated GPU scheduling.

 

Yes

I use every known tips about DCS ( you need them to use VR smooth for 4 years ) 

The main topic  is that others players ( see Thread ) get better perf and smooth with Classic FSE: we need it

[Loukuins]

Yes, I have way more stable frametime when using FSE, using Windows 11 with a RTX 3080 and a 5600X

[fab.13]

On 11/19/2022 at 6:21 PM, biotech said:

It ain't working...
Those "flipmode" lines in autoexec.cfg make antialiasing ruined (while you MUST use AA in DCS VR). Not surprisingly, that fps boosted without AA.

 

Hello

I made more tests about using FSE in occulus VR

And yes, quality seem lower with the autoexec.cfg FSE in VR occulus : My DCS msaa has allways been zéro but it looks like some AA technic is used with stock DCS 2.8

It will be interesting to know if 2D players can see a degraded quality with FSE too ( autoexec.cfg )

[Loukuins]

On 11/26/2022 at 12:27 AM, fab.13 said:

Hello

I made more tests about using FSE in occulus VR

And yes, quality seem lower with the autoexec.cfg FSE in VR occulus : My DCS msaa has allways been zéro but it looks like some AA technic is used with stock DCS 2.8

It will be interesting to know if 2D players can see a degraded quality with FSE too ( autoexec.cfg )

Seems to occur only in VR, I have no issue what so ever on my 2D Screen, check if the issue comes from the MSAA mask or from the PD in the VR settings

[SubVision]

On 11/15/2022 at 12:01 AM, BIGNEWY said:

Sorry for over looking this 

it seems the work around is no longer working. I will ask the team about it. 

thanks

For no other fixes needed after alt-tab DCS should return to full screen mode if full screen checkbox is ticked. Otherwise it's useful.
It looks strange that game starts in full screen and after using alt+tab it returns to full screen window which can decrese smoothness alot, especially on non-sync screens.

[Loukuins]

2 hours ago, SubVision said:

For no other fixes needed after alt-tab DCS should return to full screen mode if full screen checkbox is ticked. Otherwise it's useful.
It looks strange that game starts in full screen and after using alt+tab it returns to full screen window which can decrese smoothness alot, especially on non-sync screens.

That's the whole point of going back, you just do the ALT+Enter thing the current workaround, the workaround is working but only with V-Sync ticked in the game (you can disable it via Nvidia anyway) so no biggies. And some AAA struggle to get you back to Exclusive Fullscreen, that's mainly a windows issue I think

[SubVision]

1 hour ago, Loukuins said:

That's the whole point of going back, you just do the ALT+Enter thing the current workaround, the workaround is working but only with V-Sync ticked in the game (you can disable it via Nvidia anyway) so no biggies. And some AAA struggle to get you back to Exclusive Fullscreen, that's mainly a windows issue I think

I'm talking about how it should work by default: after returning to the game it should return to fullscreen, not fullscreen window. Otherwise this option is useless in settings

[fab.13]

Hello,

Maybe we should try to sum up about this subject in order to get a status on this thread ( @BIGNEWY )

I try to sum up:

- ALT-ENTER ( FSE windows mode ) functionnality has disappear in DCS since few patchs ago
- DCS has implemented the new FullScreen Windows 10 optimisation in replacement ( https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/demystifying-full-screen-optimizations/ )
( it is the "fullscreen setting" checkbox in DCS  and need to restart )

- Patch notes did not mentionned that FSE ( alt-enter) has been removed and player must turn on ‘full screen’ in settings
- Some 2D players have encountered some performances or smooth problem since this date ( VR is out of scope in this thread )
- Some 2D players can get performance and smooth back as good as 2.7 by using the autoexec.cfg flipmode tips( ALT-ENTER )
- ALT-TAB focus gain on DCS 2.8 seems to not return to FullScreen Windows 10 optimisation whereas it is checked in DCS ( maybe a true bug )

Questions to answer:
- Are the 2D players in this thread meet the performances problem just after restarting DCS with the new Fullscreen mode ?
- Are the 2D players in this thread meet the performances problem just after ALT-TAB DCS focus gain ?

Feel free to add some contributions...

Thanks

Edited November 30, 2022 by fab.13

[Art-J]

OK, here are results of my tests then. I'm 2D player, using TrackIR and 60Hz monitor, always with V-Sync (though turned it off and on for the sake of this comparison). My primary concern have been stutters when looking around, non-existent in 2.7, but brought with 2.8. Framerate has been of secondary importance as long as I'm not dropping below that synced 60.

All tests done in latest OpenBeta with in-game Fullscreen option ENABLED.

1) V-Sync OFF (both NV and in-game), without autoexec tweak, DCS desktop shortcut fullscreen optimisations ON: 

Results: surprisingly, frametime graph is smooth and thus there are no stutters, but I'm not using such combination because of obvious screen tearing;

2) In-game V-Sync ON, NV V-Sync OFF, without autoexec tweak, DCS desktop shortcut fullscreen optimisaition ON:

Results: frametime graph gets and stays all jittery when looking inside cockpit (seen on my second screenshot on top of this page), it also does so occasionally when looking outside. Whenever that happens - bad stuttering follows. Alt-Entering doesn't work and doesn't help.

3) In-game V-Sync ON, NV V-Sync OFF, autoexec tweak used, DCS desktop shortcut fullscreen optimisation OFF:

Frametime is always smooth and there are no stutters after launching the game and loading the first mission. It becomes jittery and stuttery, however, IF I Alt-Enter just then. Alt-Entering once again brings everything back to smooth.

Final thought - In general, It seems that there's some issue with interaction between Fullscreen (current 2.8 implementation thereof) and V-Sync, making the frametime jump up and down constantly. Problem goes away with autoexec tweak and turnig fullscreen optimisations off.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Art-J

[scommander2]

Quote

3) In-game V-Sync ON, NV V-Sync OFF, autoexec tweak used, DCS desktop shortcut fullscreen optimisation OFF:

Hi @Art-J, I am wondering that if NV V-Sync is on in the test case 3?  Thanks.

[Art-J]

^ It's been established that autoexec "fix" works only if Nvidia sync is OFF, so honestly I haven't even tried it ON.

[fab.13]

4 hours ago, Art-J said:

Results: surprisingly, frametime graph is smooth and thus there are no stutters, but I'm not using such combination because of obvious screen tearing;

Not surprised.
The goal of the new windows 10 fullscreen mode  is to give Maximum Framerates as good as ALT-ENTER FSE give to us ( see microsoft blog )
 

4 hours ago, Art-J said:

2) In-game V-Sync ON, NV V-Sync OFF, without autoexec tweak, DCS desktop shortcut fullscreen optimisaition ON:

Could you do the same test with In-game V-Sync OFF an NV V-Sync ON ?
 

5 hours ago, Art-J said:

Final thought - In general, It seems that there's some issue with interaction between Fullscreen (current 2.8 implementation thereof) and V-Sync, making the frametime jump up and down constantly. Problem goes away with autoexec tweak and turnig fullscreen optimisations off.

For now, DCS 2.8 has stutters when V-SYNC is turned on on your rig.

We need to find other player that meet this problem or ask to @flappie to help us about this problem.