razorseal Posted March 19, 2022 Posted March 19, 2022 But this F16 is insane. I feel like I'm cheating when I'm playing any AI right now. Is this what the real thing is like? I can point the nose to anything I desire anytime I want. If this is what the real F16 flies like, you guys did an awesome job. now on the other hand... the apache is driving me crazy and is going to take me some serious time to master. LOL maybe I'll just stick with learning the F16's A2G capabilities some more. a true multi role fighter. lol ps - is the Cat 1/3 switch actually working as intended? 3
CybrSlydr Posted March 19, 2022 Posted March 19, 2022 Loving the Viper like I do, the Apache is frustratingly complicated. Like... Why can't it just be like the F-16? Slew the TADS, TMS-UP to lock on to the target, missile away. lol 2
razorseal Posted March 19, 2022 Author Posted March 19, 2022 1 hour ago, CybrSlydr said: Loving the Viper like I do, the Apache is frustratingly complicated. Like... Why can't it just be like the F-16? Slew the TADS, TMS-UP to lock on to the target, missile away. lol Right? I spent the money on the module for their hard work, but I can tell I'm def going to be flying in the F16 way more than anything else... 2
SCPanda Posted March 19, 2022 Posted March 19, 2022 9 hours ago, CybrSlydr said: Loving the Viper like I do, the Apache is frustratingly complicated. Like... Why can't it just be like the F-16? Slew the TADS, TMS-UP to lock on to the target, missile away. lol Just another example showing the genius design of F-16's HOTAS system. AH-64 is made by the same manufacture as Hornet, which makes sense lol. 7
TobiasA Posted March 19, 2022 Posted March 19, 2022 (edited) Dang, why can't the Apache have a bubble canopy and the ease-of-use as the Viper..? The Apache is complicated af, but awesome. To be honest, you see that it is the same manufacturer as the hornet. Tons of menus, lots of stuff to adjust and modes and submodes and... oh boy. But... You need all that stuff when working together with ground troops. It is necessary for the CAS role. That's why most attack helicopters are two-seaters. The Viper was designed as a light weight fighter, became a fighter-bomber and then multirole but kept its simplicity. The Apache was designed for the CAS role, and for surviving in that dangerous environment- and for working together with JTAC, infantry, and even airplanes. It is a two-seater for a good reason. I can't help myself but I need to admire the genius design of the F-16. It keeps the workload off the pilot, simple workflows. Point at it, pickle, kill it. Edited March 19, 2022 by TobiasA
razorseal Posted March 20, 2022 Author Posted March 20, 2022 19 hours ago, TobiasA said: Dang, why can't the Apache have a bubble canopy and the ease-of-use as the Viper..? The Apache is complicated af, but awesome. To be honest, you see that it is the same manufacturer as the hornet. Tons of menus, lots of stuff to adjust and modes and submodes and... oh boy. But... You need all that stuff when working together with ground troops. It is necessary for the CAS role. That's why most attack helicopters are two-seaters. The Viper was designed as a light weight fighter, became a fighter-bomber and then multirole but kept its simplicity. The Apache was designed for the CAS role, and for surviving in that dangerous environment- and for working together with JTAC, infantry, and even airplanes. It is a two-seater for a good reason. I can't help myself but I need to admire the genius design of the F-16. It keeps the workload off the pilot, simple workflows. Point at it, pickle, kill it. Indeed... and in a game where most of the time it's just you (single player or MP environment) single seaters just make sense. Not the biggest fan of AI copilot since it takes out the human error of that second idiot flying the aircraft with you LOL 19 hours ago, TobiasA said:
Burt Posted March 21, 2022 Posted March 21, 2022 Love the Viper update ! Now the Apache seems really complicated especially that I have never was interested in helos. I can’t even get the Apache off the ground and have no idea what to bind on the Hotas. It’s beautiful tho but it’s gonna take a lot of time for me for sure. Totally respect the real Apache pilots and of course the jet guys. I just don’t know where to start with the Apache … maybe basic helo tutorials first. Soooo confused ! ALIENWARE R11 - I9 10900KF @ 5.1 GHz - M.2 NVMe 2TB - RTX3090 - XFURY 64GB -3400 MHz RAM Monitor AW3420DW @ 120Hz - Virpil CM3 Throttle - TM TPR Rudder pedals - Virpil CM2 w/TM Hornet Stick Center - Monstertech Deck Mounts RealSimulator FSSB-R3 Lightning Base w/ F16SRGRH SideStick - VR user / Varjo Aero - Big Thx to mbucchia Start Date April 2020
Glide Posted March 21, 2022 Posted March 21, 2022 I'm still geeking out on the Viper flight model improvements to even take my Apache out of the crates! Fabulous work! Thanks so much!
CybrSlydr Posted March 21, 2022 Posted March 21, 2022 Apache is a LOT easier to start than the Viper. lol Waaaay fewer buttons to push (or I'm just skipping a lot...). I do think I've streamlined the process of engaging targets, but NAV stuff is still beyond me - I just use Liberation, load up a CAS mission and go chase orange smoke. lol
Checkmate Posted March 24, 2022 Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) Like everything in life once you take the time to understand it it becomes second nature. What I like about ED is each aircraft is like going to flight school and it feels like I am learning something real. I don't want it to be easy, I want it to be realistic and rewarding. Now I look at Viper as easy to fly when it was once complicated. I looked at the Hornet in the same way and I bet one day I will be telling people how easy the Apache is to fly once I put in the time to learn it. Edited March 24, 2022 by Checkmate 1
Dragon1-1 Posted March 24, 2022 Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) Actually, I found the Viper really easy to fly back when I was 14 and I was flying FreeFalcon. That thing's cockpit design and HOTAS just rocks. I've flown a lot in the Hornet and Harrier since then, and I must say they're not quite on the same level of easy (doesn't help the Harrier still has a number of bugs). Apache is similar to the Hornet in concept. I think my biggest problem is that the Hornet tries to do too much with a single switch on the stick. The Viper's HOTAS, while having a lot of switches, generally has them do more or less the same thing all the time. Plus, the SPI concept is pretty great once you wrap your head around it working in concert with steerpoints. What takes a bunch of button pushing in the Hornet is the default in Viper. After all these years, I will say it every time: the Viper is easy to learn and fly, almost too easy, because it does so much for you that you don't actually learn to fly if you start with it. It was FlightGear, some time after giving up on FreeFalcon (couldn't get into dynamic campaign due to absolutely horrendous mess FF documentation was), that actually taught me that. Edited March 24, 2022 by Dragon1-1 2
Furiz Posted March 24, 2022 Posted March 24, 2022 On 3/19/2022 at 2:06 AM, razorseal said: But this F16 is insane. Yeah! I bought the Apache, flying it and it is great, but Viper is just much more interesting to me! and now with new tweaks and updates it's just perfect! 1
TobiasA Posted March 25, 2022 Posted March 25, 2022 Am 24.3.2022 um 21:00 schrieb Dragon1-1: Actually, I found the Viper really easy to fly back when I was 14 and I was flying FreeFalcon. That thing's cockpit design and HOTAS just rocks. I've flown a lot in the Hornet and Harrier since then, and I must say they're not quite on the same level of easy (doesn't help the Harrier still has a number of bugs). Apache is similar to the Hornet in concept. I think my biggest problem is that the Hornet tries to do too much with a single switch on the stick. The Viper's HOTAS, while having a lot of switches, generally has them do more or less the same thing all the time. Plus, the SPI concept is pretty great once you wrap your head around it working in concert with steerpoints. What takes a bunch of button pushing in the Hornet is the default in Viper. After all these years, I will say it every time: the Viper is easy to learn and fly, almost too easy, because it does so much for you that you don't actually learn to fly if you start with it. It was FlightGear, some time after giving up on FreeFalcon (couldn't get into dynamic campaign due to absolutely horrendous mess FF documentation was), that actually taught me that. Once you know the Viper, every other plane feels difficult. The SPI concept, the view outside (it is so easy to hold a formation with that bubble canopy), the whole HOTAS is simply a blast. 2
Sinclair_76 Posted March 25, 2022 Posted March 25, 2022 F-16 HOTAS with DMS beats AH-64 cursor. Furthermore I prefer the TGP operation over TADS. Except maybe LMC. The other way around sight select and acquisition source always work the same way. Same as waypoint and target creation, just lase and store. DMS-ing (down) through the acquisition sources would also rock.
Dragon1-1 Posted March 25, 2022 Posted March 25, 2022 2 hours ago, TobiasA said: Once you know the Viper, every other plane feels difficult. The SPI concept, the view outside (it is so easy to hold a formation with that bubble canopy), the whole HOTAS is simply a blast. Every other besides the A-10, which borrowed many HOTAS concepts from the Viper. SPI management in the Hog is less rigid and makes TOOs easier, but OTOH, normal steerpoint-based SPI slaving takes a few more clicks. Also, it has a few more switches, but you don't have to fiddle with the dobber like in the Viper (which always struck me as one thing I'd like to move to either stick or the throttle). 2
PlainSight Posted March 27, 2022 Posted March 27, 2022 (edited) If a plane comes with a dedicated DGFT switch position, it better be a dogfight insanity. That's what it was built for. Edited March 27, 2022 by PlainSight [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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