AMD 5800X3D, the new King for flight simulators?

[some1]

21 minutes ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

watching many 2D of i5 13600K, the new i5 wins almost all except on MSFS in where the AMD has a slight lead

I wouldn't call a difference above 30% "a slight lead". The gap in 1% lows is even higher, although that measurement is typically not super accurate. 

Raptor Lake is also loosing to X3D in racing simulators like F1 2021 or Assetto Corsa. 

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-core-i9-13900k-core-i5-13600k-cpu-review

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

6 minutes ago, some1 said:

wouldn't call a difference above 30% "a slight lead". The gap in 1% lows is even higher, although that measurement is typically not super accurate. 

Margin of error, that was what you are referring to as the "gap".

It is okay, here are my sources:

I think you have to go to the MSFS section of both videos and play together and compare them side-by-side. If it ends up AMD is better, I think I could shell out the extra £100.00

[M1Combat]

LOL...  Sometimes AMD is better...  It's OK dude.  It's good for the industry.

[some1]

29 minutes ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

It is okay, here are my sources:

Small YT channels with zero commentary and gazillion hardware comparisons never showing the actual hardware tested, are not necessarily the best source of information. Most of them are simple scams showing "emulated" results. 

[Supmua]

What I'd like to see would be the 4K fps numbers, none of us here plays at 1080p really.  In VR we use even higher pixels than 4K.

[Justin1Ntime]

Hey guys, I am at an impasse. I have a 3080TI paired with I7 6700 Skylake and I need to upgrade. As you can see I keep my CPUs for quite some time. This system is only used for gaming. I was thinking the 13700 but it might make more sense to go with the X3d, Knowing, I mostly just play DCS in VR (right now). I will play some BF, COD, Squad, Etc from time to time. I see so many people going from 5800 to the 5800X3d but my CPU is so old it all has to be replaced so anything will be a big win for me. Being I only use this for gaming does it make sense just to go down the X3d and if so what mobo should I pair that with? My thought is the X3d is pretty inexpensive right now (assuming I can reuse my 3200 DDR4) so if I need to replace it later that's ok. What would you do? Any help would be really appreciated. I would like to hang on to this CPU for at least 3-5 years. AM5 is not an option at this time. 

[TheRBT]

7 hours ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

 

It is okay, here are my sources:

 

 

That's a fake channel my guy. 

[nikoel]

14 hours ago, Supmua said:

What I'd like to see would be the 4K fps numbers, none of us here plays at 1080p really.  In VR we use even higher pixels than 4K.

DCS is a different animal. Even with a 6900XT I can be CPU limited with a 5800X3D (eg Supercarrier / Cluster Munitions etc)

The guys at Hardware Unboxed/Gamers Nexus should think of using our dinosaur engine for their CPU benchmarks. For the time being AC/MSFS are the closest things we are going to get

[VirusAM]

10 minutes ago, nikoel said:

DCS is a different animal. Even with a 6900XT I can be CPU limited with a 5800X3D (eg Supercarrier / Cluster Munitions etc)

The guys at Hardware Unboxed/Gamers Nexus should think of using our dinosaur engine for their CPU benchmarks. For the time being AC/MSFS are the closest things we are going to get

The advantage about the x3d is in its cache....the results differs based on the resolution just because higher res moves the bottleneck towards the GPU...but the advantage of the cache remains.
I think that in VR and MP the x3d has a big advantage.

Probably I will switch to it later this year

[nikoel]

13 hours ago, Justin1Ntime said:

Hey guys, I am at an impasse. I have a 3080TI paired with I7 6700 Skylake and I need to upgrade. As you can see I keep my CPUs for quite some time. This system is only used for gaming. I was thinking the 13700 but it might make more sense to go with the X3d, Knowing, I mostly just play DCS in VR (right now). I will play some BF, COD, Squad, Etc from time to time. I see so many people going from 5800 to the 5800X3d but my CPU is so old it all has to be replaced so anything will be a big win for me. Being I only use this for gaming does it make sense just to go down the X3d and if so what mobo should I pair that with? My thought is the X3d is pretty inexpensive right now (assuming I can reuse my 3200 DDR4) so if I need to replace it later that's ok. What would you do? Any help would be really appreciated. I would like to hang on to this CPU for at least 3-5 years. AM5 is not an option at this time. 

Sounds like you're trying to stretch your $. There are a load of second hand high end X570 Boards because people are upgrading to AM5 right now. It helps that AM4 is as dead end as LGA1700 (intel 12/13).

Forget brand new, go to Fleabay, Gumtree, Craiglist etc... Type in X570 and get yourself a bargain of the century, even $150USD gets you a second hand high quality high end board - it also helps that X3D doesn't really care about memory speed due to the buffer the cache gives it. AMD has started discounting the chip now

 

[TheRBT]

If you guys are giving CPU upgrade advice, I would like some too. I currently have a 3090 with a 10700K and I am waiting for my 4090 to arrive. I need to upgrade my CPU as the 10700K will def bottleneck in flight sims in VR.

 

Option 1: 13900K with a nice mobo and nice DDR5 RAM (already ordered the RAM since it can be used in Option 3 as well, 6400 MHz CL 32)

Option 2: 5800X3D with a cheap mobo and my current DDR4 RAM. Then ditch this whole setup in ~6 months when the 7950X3D arrives.

Option 3: 7700X with a nice mobo and nice DDR5 RAM (already ordered the RAM). Then in ~6 months, sell the 7700X and pop in the 7950X3D. 

 

No budget constraints, but I would prefer to minimize wastage. Thoughts? 

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by TheRBT

[Hoirtel]

24 minutes ago, TheRBT said:

If you guys are giving CPU upgrade advice, I would like some too. I currently have a 3090 with a 10700K and I am waiting for my 4090 to arrive. I need to upgrade my CPU as the 10700K will def bottleneck in flight sims in VR.

 

Option 1: 13900K with a nice mobo and nice DDR5 RAM (already ordered the RAM since it can be used in Option 3 as well, 6400 MHz CL 32)

Option 2: 5800X3D with a cheap mobo and my current DDR4 RAM. Then ditch this whole setup in ~6 months when the 7950X3D arrives.

Option 3: 7700X with a nice mobo and nice DDR5 RAM (already ordered the RAM). Then in ~6 months, sell the 7700X and pop in the 7950X3D. 

 

No budget constraints, but I would prefer to minimize wastage. Thoughts? 

 

 

I'm in very similar position and have thought the same options as you. However I think the 13900 is a bad choice, seems this part is excessive heat and power 13700 will be the one to have. 

My choice is leaning towards number 3 although I probably will completely wait until X3D and just get that. 

I also don't think the X3D will be a 7950. Makes no sense really, a gaming part does not need all those cores, even for multi threaded games far better to be on a 7800

Edited October 22, 2022 by Hoirtel

[TheRBT]

@Hoirtel Rumours are for three X3D SKUs this time around. I think it makes sense financially, but not sure if they can do it technically. Anyway, I am fine with whatever it ends up being: 7800X3D, 7900X3D, 7950X3D or all three.

 

I too think option 3 is the most logical. I think AMD dropped the ball by not launching the X3D along with the rest of Zen4. That would have murdered Intel in gaming. But its probably just not ready yet. 

[Willdass]

On 10/21/2022 at 4:21 PM, Hartsblade said:

I'm running a 5800x as well and I'm super curious what increases you see moving to the 5800x3d. Please post an update when you've had a chance to pla around a bit.

Got it installed today, must say I'm very happy about the results. Did not do any scientific testing, but the fps on the ground and on the supercarrier is noticeably better.

With 5800X I usually stayed in the low 40s on a populated SC (Single player) with frequent drops below 30fps. With the X3D the average FPS was about 45 and very rarely dropped below 40. Much more stable!! Saw the same types of improvement on the ground in the South Atlantic map, this was unplayable for me before with 25fps, now I was at about 40+.

Did also a quick test flight on the Hoggit Training Server, which usually is a lag/stutter fest for me, saw improvements here as well but it was not perfect. At least made it playable

To sum up I'm very happy with the upgrade! I decided to pull the trigger now while I was still able to sell my 5800X for a reasonable price and do not regret it!

[Hartsblade]

46 minutes ago, Willdass said:

Got it installed today, must say I'm very happy about the results. Did not do any scientific testing, but the fps on the ground and on the supercarrier is noticeably better.

With 5800X I usually stayed in the low 40s on a populated SC (Single player) with frequent drops below 30fps. With the X3D the average FPS was about 45 and very rarely dropped below 40. Much more stable!! Saw the same types of improvement on the ground in the South Atlantic map, this was unplayable for me before with 25fps, now I was at about 40+.

Did also a quick test flight on the Hoggit Training Server, which usually is a lag/stutter fest for me, saw improvements here as well but it was not perfect. At least made it playable

To sum up I'm very happy with the upgrade! I decided to pull the trigger now while I was still able to sell my 5800X for a reasonable price and do not regret it!

Sounds like you made a good choice!  Sounds very tempting, maybe I'll put it my Christmas list.

[ackattacker]

7 hours ago, TheRBT said:

If you guys are giving CPU upgrade advice, I would like some too. I currently have a 3090 with a 10700K and I am waiting for my 4090 to arrive. I need to upgrade my CPU as the 10700K will def bottleneck in flight sims in VR.

 

Option 1: 13900K with a nice mobo and nice DDR5 RAM (already ordered the RAM since it can be used in Option 3 as well, 6400 MHz CL 32)

Option 2: 5800X3D with a cheap mobo and my current DDR4 RAM. Then ditch this whole setup in ~6 months when the 7950X3D arrives.

Option 3: 7700X with a nice mobo and nice DDR5 RAM (already ordered the RAM). Then in ~6 months, sell the 7700X and pop in the 7950X3D. 

 

No budget constraints, but I would prefer to minimize wastage. Thoughts? 

 

 

With no budget constraints option 3 is the most sensible IMHO. Most future proof platform. If the 7800x3d is anything like the 5800x3d it will blow Intel away in sim games like DCS. Right now though AM5 motherboards are a huge price premium. Might make sense to just hold off the upgrade all together until early 2023, when cheaper AM5 motherboards will be available along with the 7xxxx3d. 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

I read rumor saying AMD was considering slashing the CPU price due to Intel but I think the mobo price is killing it, if not the price difference between DDR4 and DDR5 is killing it already...

[Justin1Ntime]

11 hours ago, nikoel said:

Sounds like you're trying to stretch your $. There are a load of second hand high end X570 Boards because people are upgrading to AM5 right now. It helps that AM4 is as dead end as LGA1700 (intel 12/13).

Forget brand new, go to Fleabay, Gumtree, Craiglist etc... Type in X570 and get yourself a bargain of the century, even $150USD gets you a second hand high quality high end board - it also helps that X3D doesn't really care about memory speed due to the buffer the cache gives it. AMD has started discounting the chip now

 

That's a really good idea. Yeah I was trying to hold off a few more years until a new X3d or the next gen intel CPU comes out but I cant even fire up liberation without DCS going into slide show mode. Being I have never owned a AMD CPU before any board I should look for that wont break the bank?

[Biggus]

12 hours ago, Willdass said:

Got it installed today, must say I'm very happy about the results. Did not do any scientific testing, but the fps on the ground and on the supercarrier is noticeably better.

With 5800X I usually stayed in the low 40s on a populated SC (Single player) with frequent drops below 30fps. With the X3D the average FPS was about 45 and very rarely dropped below 40. Much more stable!! Saw the same types of improvement on the ground in the South Atlantic map, this was unplayable for me before with 25fps, now I was at about 40+.

Did also a quick test flight on the Hoggit Training Server, which usually is a lag/stutter fest for me, saw improvements here as well but it was not perfect. At least made it playable

To sum up I'm very happy with the upgrade! I decided to pull the trigger now while I was still able to sell my 5800X for a reasonable price and do not regret it!

Would you mind telling me a bit about the rest of your system?  I'm on a 5800X right now with a 3070 and 32gb running at 3800 CL17, and I've been torturing myself going back and forth for the last couple of months.  It might help push me over the line.

[Willdass]

3 hours ago, Biggus said:

Would you mind telling me a bit about the rest of your system?  I'm on a 5800X right now with a 3070 and 32gb running at 3800 CL17, and I've been torturing myself going back and forth for the last couple of months.  It might help push me over the line.

Sure, I run the G2 on a 3080 10gb (waiting on my 4090, should come in a week or two), 64gb DDR4 3600mhz CL 16 and DCS installed on an NVMe. 

Initially my plan was to get the 4090 and then upgrade to AM5 when 7800X3D comes next year. But when I saw the MB and Ram prices here in Norway I decided to do a intermediary upgrade with the 5800X3D and 4090. I upgraded my ram and MB last year and didn't want to do a complete rebuild quite yet. Also, seeing Intel catching back up I didn't want to invest into a whole new AMD platform just yet. 

If prices fall I might upgrade late next year to AM5 or just wait for the next gen intel/amd CPUs, but I'm squeezing some more time out of the AM4 platform for now.

I use OpenXR and have FSR (100%) and FFR (quality, wide) enabled, no motion reprojection. Can't remember my DCS settings on the top of my head but I can post a screenshot here later if you like.

It really depends what's your issues with your current setup. If you are like me who have constant frame drops on the ground and that keeps you from playing certain content, I would say go for it. But if your settings allow you to have smooth ground ops, I would wait.

This video from Lukas (Wolta) pretty much sealed it for me. 5600X having about the same performance as 5800X in DCS.

 

[Biggus]

@Willdass Thanks, that's a really informative response.

[Supmua]

Something was up with those intermittent red spikes in CPU frametimes in that video though, also occurred with the 5800X3D.

[Willdass]

27 minutes ago, Supmua said:

Something was up with those intermittent red spikes in CPU frametimes in that video though, also occurred with the 5800X3D.

Yeah, I saw the same types of spikes in MP  (can't wait for multithreading). The X3D will not solve all problems, but was a good upgrade for me

[edmuss]

I saw 25-30% GPU performance increase with my 3070 simply by switching the 3600@4.3ghz to the 5800x3D. That was on single player lightly CPU loaded missions as well. Obviously there is some uplift going from 3xxx to 5xxx Ryzen but it was still a big jump.

[Supmua]

I'm very skeptical about significant *GPU* performance jump by just upgrading CPU, it's more likely to be related to the final fps but this has to do with both GPU and CPU frametime numbers.  I'm upgrading my CPU from 9900K to 5800X3D soon and I would be shocked if there is that much improvement in GPU performance.  Already have all the 9900K/3090 and 9900K/4090 frametime numbers from various missions waiting to crosscheck.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Supmua