Enemy Pilot Vision

[dresoccer4]

I'm wondering if anyone knows how many km's the enemy pilots can see you (with their eyes) in the sim? Like how many kms away before they see you and react?

Does it matter on weather, time of day, fog, pilot skill? Thanks!

Edited April 21, 2022 by dresoccer4

[Exorcet]

It should vary as far as I know. I don't have specific details.

You should be able to test it with this script:

env.setErrorMessageBoxEnabled(false) -- Prevent error popup

local _group = Group.getByName('AWACSMain');
if not (_group and _group:isExist()) then return false; end
local _controller = _group:getController();
local _targets = _controller:getDetectedTargets(Controller.Detection.VISUAL);
for _index, _target in ipairs(_targets) do
	if _target.visible then return true; end -- I see the enemy!!!
end
return false; -- I don't see the enemy...

Just make sure the unit names make sense in your mission

 

EDIT

So I got curious and did a head on test with a Trained MiG-29 while flying a F-16. Co alt 30000 ft, 1000 knot closure, day, clear weather. the AI spotted me at 3 nautical miles and lost track of me when we passed each other.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Exorcet

[sthompson]

16 hours ago, dresoccer4 said:

I'm wondering if anyone knows how many km's the enemy pilots can see you (with their eyes) in the sim? Like how many kms away before they see you and react?

Does it matter on weather, time of day, fog, pilot skill? Thanks!

 

When the new clouds were introduced we were told that the AI can see through them but that this would change in the future.  I don't know whether that has changed. I've often wondered if lights matter, especially at night.

[28270]

Interesting approach.

On an escort mission, radars off at ROE, they're seeing me a mile away.

In that range it begins to react, defensive and attack.

EDIT: 8 miles.

Edited April 27, 2022 by 28270

[Kang]

On 4/21/2022 at 9:50 PM, sthompson said:

When the new clouds were introduced we were told that the AI can see through them but that this would change in the future.  I don't know whether that has changed. I've often wondered if lights matter, especially at night.

AI can see and fight through the clouds, excluding ground haze and - I believe - fully closed overcasts. They don't affect IR seekers either.

[silverdevil]

AI seems to be able to kill me from orbit. but i heard that the various AC lights, collision, formation etc, does not matter. i wish the AI flew around with lights on. that would be a lot easier. chasing fireflies.

[rkk01]

WW2 birds are a good setup to test AI “radar eyes”…

I spent a while trying to simulate Nachtjagd Ops on the Normandy map - flying Wilde Sau in the Anton

Fantastically atmospheric, searchlights, bombers, flak barrages, moon and clouds to dodge between

Always tried to approach bombers from below and behind - dark ground beneath me and lit up sky to silhouette the bombers… but these things clearly aren’t simulated in DCS, which is pretty disgraceful given the authenticity claims attached to this sim…

I was using labels for night Ops () so had perfect intel on range - the furthest a B-17 gunner opened up on me was 6,000m and the fire was perfectly accurate causing mission ending engine damage

Let’s be honest here - 6km, accurate fire, night time, day fighter sized target… that’s utter nonsense

I suspect the code works on the basis that your simulated x, y, z, coords are continuously computed and the AI “gunners” have this as a continuously known aiming point..

This approach to AI fire might have been acceptable for DCS’s Cold War / Modern roots, with radar guided AAA, but is nonsense for WW2 setting

[Dragon1-1]

All gunners in DCS seem to have radar guidance. This includes main guns on vehicles like BMP-2, which in reality wouldn't even be able to put the aircraft and the aimpoint in the sight at the same time. This really needs to be addressed.

[schurem]

12 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

This really needs to be addressed.

Amen.

[Mohamengina]

On 4/24/2022 at 9:41 AM, Dragon1-1 said:

All gunners in DCS seem to have radar guidance. This includes main guns on vehicles like BMP-2, which in reality wouldn't even be able to put the aircraft and the aimpoint in the sight at the same time. This really needs to be addressed.

I wonder if they can aim at night too which would negate one of the advantages of the Apache which is to be able to operate at night.

[Dragon1-1]

Well, in several A-10 campaigns you have night missions in which most of the enemies, including optically-aimed air defenses like the ZU-23, are properly blind as bats. Not sure if this was night itself or the mission was scripted that way, but it's quite possible night degrades them to some extent, at least.

[Exorcet]

On 4/22/2022 at 4:16 PM, 28270 said:

Interesting approach.

On an escort mission, radars off at ROE, they're seeing me a mile away.

In that range it begins to react, defensive and attack.

EDIT: 8 miles.

 

 

1 hour ago, 28270 said:

In the last test that I have carried out escorting a C-130, the Mig-29 detects us visually at 8 miles. Maybe it's a little less, because the C-130 is two miles ahead of my position.

You can't conclude visual detection range just by turning off the radar. The MiG has an optical sensor that remains on when the radar is off.

 

You need to use the script I posted.

[28270]

hace 6 horas, Exorcet dijo:

 

You can't conclude visual detection range just by turning off the radar. The MiG has an optical sensor that remains on when the radar is off.

 

You need to use the script I posted.

Perhaps my video does not serve as a reference, because the radar is on. I repeated the test with the radar off and the Mig-29 reacts at three miles.

[rayrayblues]

The AI can't "see" you, they don't have eyes. They just know that you're there. It's like they're telepathic or psychic. As mentioned above they "sense" you at about 6 km which is f****** ridiculous. No human can see or aim at that distance.

[Dragon1-1]

You can definitely see a fighter aircraft at 6 or 8km out... if you're looking for it, know roughly where to look, and you're not trying to spot it against the ground. When quickly checking six, it's much harder, and you'll spot it at a much closer distance.

The real dirty trick AI pulls, IMO, is seeing you through the bottom of their plane.

[rayrayblues]

7 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

You can definitely see a fighter aircraft at 6 or 8km out

You do understand that 6Km = 3.72 miles and 8Km = 4.97 miles, almost 4 to 5 miles.

If you can spot a small fighter plane at those distances, then hats off to you.        I'll bet most of us can't.

[Exorcet]

8 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

The real dirty trick AI pulls, IMO, is seeing you through the bottom of their plane.

It can't. At least the MiG-29 can't. With my script I was able to fly around the MiG in formation and it could only see me when I was roughly visible from the cockpit. I think the issue is that once it does see you, it doesn't "forget" where you are very easily. The AI knows exactly where to look to reacquire you and also doesn't have any scan time. It can see its full field of view all at once.

[Dragon1-1]

40 minutes ago, rayrayblues said:

You do understand that 6Km = 3.72 miles and 8Km = 4.97 miles, almost 4 to 5 miles.

If you can spot a small fighter plane at those distances, then hats off to you.        I'll bet most of us can't.

Well, I can make out the general shape of airliners that fly over at something like 10km, (as in, make out wings and the tail), so I'm making some assumptions.  Fighter pilots in particular are screened for excellent eyesight, so I'd assume an average real pilot can do what I can. However, unless I have a big ol' contrail to point out where I should look in first place, there's no way I'd know to even start looking. Sky is big, and most people don't spend all their time scanning all over it.

In general, spotting depends on a lot of variables. An airliner seen from the ground is a great big piece of white moving across blue sky. A fighter coming at you (so, front aspect), in either a lo-vis scheme or outright camouflage, and with no warning of its presence, well, that would be a very different story. More crucially, a fighter coming straight at you is not moving, at least not in a way you can see. As a side note, that's why a wingman is much better at checking your six than you are, even if you can see behind. A fighter bouncing you won't move across your field of view, but it will move across your wingman's. The faster something crosses your line of sight, the more noticeable it is. That's what we need modeled. The current AI spotting ability should be an upper limit, pretty much only achievable when maintaining tally on an aircraft they've already seen. "Spotting range" and "visual range" need to be distinguished.