A separate setting for water state

[Dangerzone]

On 7/1/2025 at 3:10 AM, Honez said:

Hey guys — I need to jump in here and voice my thoughts on this.

It seems like a lot of folks are getting hung up on the physics of the ocean and trying to explain how the real ocean works. Honestly — I don’t think anyone is asking for an accurate ocean wave simulator here.

As a mission builder, the feedback I get from my crew is simple: they want cool-looking seas for immersion, without having to crank wind speeds up to ridiculous, unflyable levels just to get decent wave visuals. And I 100% agree with them.

DCS already did a great job giving us a set of cloud presets that look awesome without forcing mission builders to match them with dangerous, gameplay-breaking weather. For example — I can drop in a big thunderstorm from the cloud library, and it doesn't require me to set hurricane-force winds to match. It’s about visual storytelling and immersion.

So to the DCS dev team: please don’t waste time coding realistic ocean physics, currents, and all that. Just give us a visual sea state picker — like the cloud presets — so we can set the look of the water to fit our mission atmosphere.

It’s a game. It’s about fun, immersion, and giving mission builders more creative tools — not turning DCS into a naval hydrodynamics lab.

While I completely agree with you - the reason that (I at least) gave realistic information on how the ocean works is to justify exactly what you're asking for actually far more matches realism in this instance than what DCS has setup. I agree that the best option is independent swell height and direction - regardless of whether it's realistic or not. I love the way they've done the fog. Auto and manual modes - so hopefully they're interested in enhancing the experience with the sea swell too. I wasn't too interested in that other simulator, but after seeing the 'benchmark' that they did with the ocean sea state - it reminded me of this thread and how DCS is falling behind significantly in this area.

But as for thunderstorms - how do you get those? The new cloud presets - I couldn't see any thunderstorms at all? We have rain, but that's it. Are you using the clouds mod to get it, or is there something I'm missing?

[Nealius]

26 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

But as for thunderstorms - how do you get those? The new cloud presets - I couldn't see any thunderstorms at all? We have rain, but that's it. Are you using the clouds mod to get it, or is there something I'm missing?

The legacy weather system still works. Select "nothing" for the cloud preset, increase cloud density to 9 or 10, then "thunderstorm" will appear in the precipitation drop-down menu.

[Raisuli]

1 hour ago, Dangerzone said:

after seeing the 'benchmark' that they did with the ocean sea state - it reminded me of this thread and how DCS is falling behind significantly in this area.

It's a shame ED is pouring so many resources into new toys and not into the game play that makes those toys fun to use.  Their priority seems to be cranking out new modules, so crank out a new ocean module.  I'd rather buy that than another map.  Airfield equipment and personnel...let me get out my checkbook.  Static objects that aren't a graphical embarrassment?  How much?

Meanwhile threads like this are noted and filed with their lunch wrapper.

 

It's also unfortunate that subtlety goes over my head.  I have no idea what you guys are talking about with ThatOtherSim

 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

3 hours ago, Raisuli said:

It's also unfortunate that subtlety goes over my head.  I have no idea what you guys are talking about with ThatOtherSim

I’ll send you a pm

[Slippa]

Something would be good. 

I’ve been waiting years for someone to fix the wipers in the Mossie, or give us Target Indicators, never mind Ground Crew and bods that move like humans. Imagine the time and effort needed to implement a sea state setting? Like I said, something would be good though. It’s not ideal as it is.

Between five to ten updates ago, maybe more, they introduced a lot of stuttering or lag into the ‘World’. I still suffer a fair bit with it and every update I wonder if it’ll be sorted, or become worse. Reading around it seems I’m not alone with it. I’d be quite happy to see ED focusing on the mechanics of gameplay rather than shiny new toys to use in it. Having said that, more props please, they’re always welcome .

I took a few boat trips recently so consider myself pretty well qualified to comment here. I used the chain link ferry in Poole a couple of times as well as the Isle of White ferry so I’m quite happy to share my findings in case anyone from ED needs any expert opinion on the physics of sea states.    Happy to help 

[Dangerzone]

20 minutes ago, Slippa said:

Imagine the time and effort needed to implement a sea state setting?

What makes you think that it would require much time? At present, they have a changing sea state. Just that it’s set directly by the wind. All that’s needed basically speaking is an option to set it separately to the wind setting. 
 

While I agree with you with the other stuff, with this we’re not exactly asking for a new feature, but more just an alternative way to set an already existing feature. As such, I don’t see any performance issues with it, or significant development required either. If anything, I suspect it’d be one of those relatively simple things to implement that gives another showpiece to show the evolution of DCS. Decent return on investment really. 

[Raisuli]

5 hours ago, Slippa said:

Something would be good. 

I took a few boat trips recently so consider myself pretty well qualified to comment here. I used the chain link ferry in Poole a couple of times as well as the Isle of White ferry so I’m quite happy to share my findings in case anyone from ED needs any expert opinion on the physics of sea states.    Happy to help 

Civilian boats designed for a smooth ride aren't quite the same as a cork with significant reserve buoyancy designed to take a hit and survive it.  Stabilizers and ballasting down and small metacentric heights.  Makes absolutely no difference in game, unless you try to maneuver the cans in high seas and lay one over...you only steer one direction when the water is angry.

I'd settle for pitching decks.  Asking for enough realism to endanger the Ticos is too much

[Slippa]

It sounds like something that might be a lot of work, though I’ve no idea. Fair point Dangerzone.

I was binging a bit sarcastic, having a bit of a chuckle. I’d hope for a bit more movement than we’ll get on a chain ferry 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

On 7/5/2025 at 9:56 AM, Slippa said:

Between five to ten updates ago, maybe more, they introduced a lot of stuttering or lag into the ‘World’. I still suffer a fair bit with it and every update I wonder if it’ll be sorted, or become worse. Reading around it seems I’m not alone with it

That’s OT here, but yes I was one of the people, but the recent patches fixed it again (for me anyway). So whatever they did to cause them in the first place, is now undone.

[Honez]

Exactly! This is the problem. The other day I cracked up the wind to 25 knots and it barely changed the look of the water. 

[Raisuli]

On 7/7/2025 at 8:41 AM, Honez said:

Exactly! This is the problem. The other day I cracked up the wind to 25 knots and it barely changed the look of the water. 

You don't need anywhere near that to get spray off the crests, and that alone would turn that mirrored surface in DCS into something you can gauge altitude off. 

I'm not even going to get into the abject embarrasment that is wakes, or the fact the carrier wake is a copy of the same two screw boat wake used everywhere else in game.

There really is a point of diminishing returns between effort and realism.

More reference photos.  Glassy days, because that does happen (and the Tarawa, since we have that): 

Turning and burning; 30ish knot wake from a two screw boat.  This was also a calm day, but note the spray off the crests.  Doesn't take much wind.

<OT=TRUE>

We did a high-speed run overnight to pick a couple people off a tender crossing to Japan and turned 30(+) knots for (edit) four or five days to get them in helo range...ok, helo range with a C-130 providing navigation and refueling service, of Pearl Harbor.  Helo landed and picked up the patients, C-130 orbited overhead.  Then we went back to our regularly scheduled exercises, a little bit late.

For the record, a boat that runs on marine gas turbines burns about 24% of their gas every day at this kind of speed.  Power is a cube function of velocity.

One guy got hurt (and a second patient came along just because) and the Navy stopped the world to get them to medical care.  The Captain called down and asked nicely for liberty turns, which we gave him because (a) our CO at the time was awesome and (b) if that was us we'd want a few extra turns.  A handful of turns doesn't make a lot of difference, but over the course of seven days we were hours early.  That was a fun time...one of only three multi-day high speed runs.  Fifteen knots is boring.  Five is worse.

<OT = FALSE>

Edited Wednesday at 03:25 PM by Raisuli

[draconus]

1 hour ago, Raisuli said:

liberty turns

Please explain for us, mere aviators

[MAXsenna]

46 minutes ago, draconus said:

Please explain for us, mere aviators

Run the screws as fast as you please?  

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Edited Wednesday at 05:05 PM by MAXsenna

[Czar66]

On 7/5/2025 at 5:21 AM, Dangerzone said:

What makes you think that it would require much time? At present, they have a changing sea state. Just that it’s set directly by the wind. All that’s needed basically speaking is an option to set it separately to the wind setting. 
 

While I agree with you with the other stuff, with this we’re not exactly asking for a new feature, but more just an alternative way to set an already existing feature. As such, I don’t see any performance issues with it, or significant development required either. If anything, I suspect it’d be one of those relatively simple things to implement that gives another showpiece to show the evolution of DCS. Decent return on investment really. 

I agree with this too.

A checkbox to 'tie' the sea state to the wind exactly as we have it now in the sim.

With the box not checked, the mission creator would be able to adjust sea state values and direction as someone posted a mockup here in the thread.

I'd just add the checkbox and with it being defaulted to ON/Checked to not break any mission or campaign somewhere. (if that's how it works, I have no idea)

The weather system in DCS is not realistic at the current moment, so it wouldn't hurt to implement these if it is simple enough to add flavor and most importantly to avoid glassy sea on low wind speeds on servers if the server intent were to avoid high wind but still have something for pilots to see the water surface.

Edited Wednesday at 05:04 PM by Czar66

[Raisuli]

2 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Run the screws as fast as you please?

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In any steam plant there are a number of components that have limits; think 'red line' on your car's tachometer.  The first one to the limit wins and you become [SomeComponent] limited.  In this case the limit we were bumping up against was one that could be managed to give us an extra turn or two.

Normally a 'liberty turn' is just running the engines a skosh faster than the engine order telegraph asks for.  Ahead 1/3, sure, but there's also an RPM requested (and an RPM repeater on the bridge).  If you add a couple it's not going to have any significant impact on the plant or power, but it's still going to get you back to Norfolk the evening before we're supposed to arrive and annoy the people with commissions and leave you doing laps off the coast of Virginia Beach all night rather than actually pulling in early.

I preferred being out at sea, so no big deal.

[MAXsenna]

In any steam plant there are a number of components that have limits; think 'red line' on your car's tachometer.  The first one to the limit wins and you become [someComponent] limited.  In this case the limit we were bumping up against was one that could be managed to give us an extra turn or two.
Normally a 'liberty turn' is just running the engines a skosh faster than the engine order telegraph asks for.  Ahead 1/3, sure, but there's also an RPM requested (and an RPM repeater on the bridge).  If you add a couple it's not going to have any significant impact on the plant or power, but it's still going to get you back to Norfolk the evening before we're supposed to arrive and annoy the people with commissions and leave you doing laps off the coast of Virginia Beach all night rather than actually pulling in early.
I preferred being out at sea, so no big deal.

Cool! Thanks!

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