planned FFB support for the Mosquito

[havebug]

Guys, I think have figured out what's going on... or at least what is working for me as a result of my latest test.

There some kind of delay bewteen the pitch trim setting and the actual feel on feedback. This is translated in out of phase action/force on the stick.

Moreover,  not the whole span of the pitch trim indicator is usefull.
The aircraft is well trimmed around the second notch - Nose down regardless the configuration (take off, landing , cruise).

Everything is tuned fine if the zero point is around the second mark regardless of load (fuel and weapons).

null
This is how I set  in the game:

1. As soon as the mission starts, set the pitch trim nose down at the second marking.
2. It s mandatory to not assign any rotary to the trim pitch, just two buttons. Otherwise the risk is to over compensate with your potentiometer and get an out of phase force.
3. Remove any curvature setting in the Y axis of your Joy. At least reduce the Y saturation (below my setting)

null

To me this is the best setting I have so far with my Rhino.
No external program needed. Just settings in DCS.

Hopefully it may works also for other FFB vendors

Give it a try and tell if it works for you.

 

EDIT: edit with my latest best settings

 

null

Y Axis:

null

 

Trim Y Axis:

Edited May 16, 2023 by havebug

[peachmonkey]

4 hours ago, havebug said:

Guys, I think have figured out what's going on... or at least what is working for me as a result of my latest test.

There some kind of delay bewteen the pitch trim setting and the actual feel on feedback. This is translated in out of phase action/force on the stick.

Moreover,  not the whole span of the pitch trim indicator is usefull.
The aircraft is well trimmed around the second notch - Nose down regardless the configuration (take off, landing , cruise).

Everything is tuned fine if the zero point is around the second mark regardless of load (fuel and weapons).

null
This is how I set  in the game:

1. As soon as the mission starts, set the pitch trim nose down at the second marking.
2. It s mandatory to not assign any rotary to the trim pitch, just two buttons. Otherwise the risk is to over compensate with your potentiometer and get an out of phase force.
3. Remove any curvature setting in the Y axis of your Joy. At least reduce the Y saturation (below my setting)

null

To me this is the best setting I have so far with my Rhino.
No external program needed. Just settings in DCS.

Hopefully it may works also for other FFB vendors

Give it a try and tell if it works for you.

 

 

 

 

you're still using the RHINO ForceTrim with this though, right?    I've tried the above setting about 6 months ago (without forcetrim) and even though it was flyable, it was still pretty wonky and unstable, I need a continuous stick input and couldn't fly hands off. With Forcetrim in Rhino obviously it's no longer a problem, but the point is I still need an outside program for that.    I guess there's a preference among players on how to actually fly the AC's. Anyhow, I'm glad you keep looking into this to find all possible solutions!!

[havebug]

4 hours ago, peachmonkey said:

you're still using the RHINO ForceTrim with this though, right? 

yep! Last night I found the game capturing the neutral trimming... and as a consequence, the plane pushed the force back and forth. So, to overcome this situation I had to set at first the neutral postion as discussed above (2 notches nose down), and then use the trim as usual (via the game or the VPForce tool)

t

[Xupicor]

On 9/9/2022 at 12:36 AM, NineLine said:

I have asked about FFB, and we generally do not support it due to lack of available hardware, I hope this changes in the future, but we have limited support for now.

Surely the company can scrounge up 2k euros to buy two Rhinos FFB bases from Walmis and some extensions and use that for testing with whatever compatible grips (Virpil, Warthog, etc) you already have? I think Walmis customers would agree to being shifted 2 units into the future if it was for the betterment of DCS FFB implementation down the road.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Xupicor

[MAXsenna]

Surely the company can scrounge up 2k euros to buy two Rhinos FFB bases from Walmis and some extensions and use that for testing with whatever compatible grips (Virpil, Warthog, etc) you already have? I think Walmis customers would agree to being shifted 2 units into the future if it was for the betterment of DCS FFB implementation down the road.

This!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[dresoccer4]

8 months later:

anyone know if there's been any positive movement on the Mossie FFB field? I haven't flown her in a long time because of this so haven't kept up with the updates. any good news from the home front, chaps?

Edited February 28, 2024 by dresoccer4

[DD_Fenrir]

33 minutes ago, dresoccer4 said:

8 months later:

anyone know if there's been any positive movement on the Mossie FFB field? I haven't flown her in a long time because of this so haven't kept up with the updates. any good news from the home front, chaps?

 

 

[dresoccer4]

26 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said:

 

 

sad news. the battle continues...

Edited February 28, 2024 by dresoccer4

[bertOC]

On 5/13/2023 at 2:43 PM, havebug said:

Guys, I think have figured out what's going on... or at least what is working for me as a result of my latest test.

There some kind of delay bewteen the pitch trim setting and the actual feel on feedback. This is translated in out of phase action/force on the stick.

Moreover,  not the whole span of the pitch trim indicator is usefull.
The aircraft is well trimmed around the second notch - Nose down regardless the configuration (take off, landing , cruise).

Everything is tuned fine if the zero point is around the second mark regardless of load (fuel and weapons).

null
This is how I set  in the game:

1. As soon as the mission starts, set the pitch trim nose down at the second marking.
2. It s mandatory to not assign any rotary to the trim pitch, just two buttons. Otherwise the risk is to over compensate with your potentiometer and get an out of phase force.
3. Remove any curvature setting in the Y axis of your Joy. At least reduce the Y saturation (below my setting)

null

To me this is the best setting I have so far with my Rhino.
No external program needed. Just settings in DCS.

Hopefully it may works also for other FFB vendors

Give it a try and tell if it works for you.

 

EDIT: edit with my latest best settings

 

null

Y Axis:

null

 

Trim Y Axis:

 

Thanks a lot for this, finally some hope after a long search..

Please make trim following an optional effect ED!

[bertOC]

BTW why is this marked as solved? I DM'ed Nineline a week ago about this but no response, seems like the issue isn't solved at all?

Edited March 24, 2024 by bertOC

[No.401_Wolverine]

I just spent a ton of time setting up the Mossie again for the 2nd time after giving up on it since release. I'd completely forgotten about this issue and it being the reason I stopped flying it. Instantly hit this problem again after my first take-off. Very sad to see that this issue still makes flying this aircraft such a frustrating experience for those of us with FFB sticks.

Very sad I won't be able to join my friends in their Mossie formations and bomb runs. It's just not doable with this trim and FFB stick.

[bertOC]

It's flyable with this setting for me, not ideal but good enough. Would be awesome to see this problem getting adressed.

[dresoccer4]

On 4/2/2024 at 11:10 PM, No.401_Wolverine said:

I just spent a ton of time setting up the Mossie again for the 2nd time after giving up on it since release. I'd completely forgotten about this issue and it being the reason I stopped flying it. Instantly hit this problem again after my first take-off. Very sad to see that this issue still makes flying this aircraft such a frustrating experience for those of us with FFB sticks.

Very sad I won't be able to join my friends in their Mossie formations and bomb runs. It's just not doable with this trim and FFB stick.

exactly. this is such a fun, unique bird and it's a shame this issue hasn't been addressed. i really want to like it...

[some1]

I think there are two issues here:

- One is that the aircraft is quite sensitive in pitch on stock settings, so people tend to set input curves to cure it. But joystick curves and FFB don't work together well, and anyone setting curves is asking for troubles. That's how it is for all DCS modules, and, to my knowledge, other games too. 

- The second issue is that DCS "simulates" forces on the stick being to high for the pilot to manage, by repositioning the stick by itself, without affecting FFB. You can't utilize full stick deflection at high speeds, the game will limit you to a smaller window around the current trim setting. You can see this when the aircraft is not trimmed and you accelerate, the stick in the cockpit will move and follow the trim. That is further messing up with FFB and trim interaction.  Again, it's not something unique to the Mossie, similar thing also happens in BF-109 for example, but in the Mosquito it's very noticeable even at moderate speeds. 

Unfortunately neither of these seem to be easy to fix. 

[bephanten]

The only solution to this is extension of the ffb stick. 

[No.401_Wolverine]

With the recent explosion of new FFB sticks coming to the market, here's hoping that this issue can get some attention (and potentially improve FFB in other modules as well).

[dresoccer4]

15 hours ago, No.401_Wolverine said:

With the recent explosion of new FFB sticks coming to the market, here's hoping that this issue can get some attention (and potentially improve FFB in other modules as well).

we can only pray to the ffb gods

[NineLine]

Our team will be getting a few different devices soon, so we will start testing and checking then.

On 7/20/2023 at 2:04 PM, Xupicor said:

Surely the company can scrounge up 2k euros to buy two Rhinos FFB bases from Walmis and some extensions and use that for testing with whatever compatible grips (Virpil, Warthog, etc) you already have? I think Walmis customers would agree to being shifted 2 units into the future if it was for the betterment of DCS FFB implementation down the road.

 

I know this is a reply to a reply of an old post, but the intent of my response here was about the lack of available FFB devices on the market, not the costs. Anyways, this is all resolving itself now. Thanks.

[MAXsenna]

Our team will be getting a few different devices soon, so we will start testing and checking then.
I know this is a reply to a reply of an old post, but the intent of my response here was about the lack of available FFB devices on the market, not the costs. Anyways, this is all resolving itself now. Thanks.

This is great news! Thanks!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[dresoccer4]

10 hours ago, NineLine said:

Our team will be getting a few different devices soon, so we will start testing and checking then.

I know this is a reply to a reply of an old post, but the intent of my response here was about the lack of available FFB devices on the market, not the costs. Anyways, this is all resolving itself now. Thanks.

best news I've heard all day. This beautiful bird has been gathering dust in the hangar in the hopes one day ffb would be implemented. Christmas comes early!

[hannibal]

On 10/4/2024 at 12:19 AM, NineLine said:

Our team will be getting a few different devices soon, so we will start testing and checking then.

I know this is a reply to a reply of an old post, but the intent of my response here was about the lack of available FFB devices on the market, not the costs. Anyways, this is all resolving itself now. Thanks.

you guys are the best. 

i also have a FFB hardware. its pretty  amazing.

DCS fine tuning FFB output is gold...

alot of needs on the table.. appreciate that this topic is being heard...

thank you ED and the team

[StiC]

So I've been trying to fly the Mossie again and this is still an issue that has not been fixed. I'm frankly at a loss as to why. DCS supports FFB sticks in several other modules and it's only the Mossie that is broken. If they can get it to work in those, why not this one. They say lack of hardware, yet somehow they got the other modules working perfectly. They say they don't support FFB devices, but they literally have a gameplay option to enable/disable FFB.

Please guys look into this. If you need more information, just ask, I'll do anything to get this working properly. Right now the Mossie is unflyable unless you jump through hoops or take the drastic action of disabling FFB altogether.

[NineLine]

10 minutes ago, StiC said:

So I've been trying to fly the Mossie again and this is still an issue that has not been fixed. I'm frankly at a loss as to why. DCS supports FFB sticks in several other modules and it's only the Mossie that is broken. If they can get it to work in those, why not this one. They say lack of hardware, yet somehow they got the other modules working perfectly. They say they don't support FFB devices, but they literally have a gameplay option to enable/disable FFB.

Please guys look into this. If you need more information, just ask, I'll do anything to get this working properly. Right now the Mossie is unflyable unless you jump through hoops or take the drastic action of disabling FFB altogether.

We are in talks with a few of the manufacturers of the newest FFB devices now coming onto the market, we want to make sure the experience is everything it needs to be. While some modules have basic support, we want to improve it, especially for modules like Warbirds that will really be impacted by them. 

[StiC]

Thanks.
I would gladly take basic support at this point. It's only the elevator trim that is an issue. Fix that, and I will happily fly the Mossie again low over the channel in tight formation.