correct as-is Since last stable update 2.7.16.28157 not able to release GBU's 12 in CCRP

[ac5]

Since last stable update 2.7.16.28157 I am not able to release GBU's 12 or 10's in CCRP. A message appears on the MCDU "release angle 45" I have tried with different angle settings to no avail. And yes, I am aware of the Wags video on toss bombing but that one refers to CBU's.... 

[Tholozor]

5 hours ago, ac5 said:

but that one refers to CBU's.... 

Toss bombing isn't restricted to CBUs, it's just a release mode. You could use DTOS with iron bombs and LGBs as well.

[Frederf]

Weapons are classified as loftable or non-loftable. Most are loftable. Things like high drag bombs aren't. Most others are including PWII.

Nothing about the REL ANG is gunna change the bomb coming off. They did change PWII to 5 mil constraint instead of 3/9 which is wrong so you have to hit it exact.

[ac5]

Well, thanks to your replies, but I don't get it... How do I release GBU's or CBU's in CCRP as it was usual

before  last stable update 2.7.16.28157?

[Frederf]

I don't understand. Here's a track of a CCRP release of a CBU-87 and a GBU-12 without issue.

F16 G12 C87 CCRP release.trk

[AlexCaboose]

1 hour ago, ac5 said:

Well, thanks to your replies, but I don't get it... How do I release GBU's or CBU's in CCRP as it was usual

before  last stable update 2.7.16.28157?

The last few OB updates, ED made it so that you need to release them with 5mil constraints instead of 3/9 which to my understanding is incorrect. That means you need to be very accurate with lining up the ASL to release.

[skywalker22]

I tired as usual, and cbu 10 and 12 release as before. Show us your track, so we can see what you might doing wrong.

[ac5]

On 8/9/2022 at 6:41 PM, Frederf said:

I don't understand. Here's a track of a CCRP release of a CBU-87 and a GBU-12 without issue.

F16 G12 C87 CCRP release.trk 126.7 kB · 2 downloads

Well, thank you very much for your track, I see... Now I have somehow managed to release the GBU's 12, but not the CBU's-97.

Before the last stable update 2.7.16.28157 one would keep the pickle button pressed about 10 seconds before release, and when the cue descended, (0 sec),

ANY CCRP bomb would automatically release.

Now the cue moves , and the seconds to release count down as before, but a circle appears flashing, one has to press the picke button exactly when that circle flashes or what? 

 

 

[Frederf]

Just make sure the button is held at the moment when the timer hits zero and solution cue meets FPM for release. You can hold it a second early, 10 seconds, a minute, an hour, a day whatever you want just has to be down to give release permission. It hasn't changed.

As for the flashing circle cue, try to ignore it. Currently it's happening at release but it shouldn't and in a future version it will properly indicate entering toss range. Right now as you approach the target from far away (i.e. >20nm) you will see the timer count down once to the solution and again to overflight/impact. In the future it will count down to entering max toss range, then release, then impact.

Some weapons are supposed to have different lateral release constraints. Precise bombs like MK 82 should be "5 mil" which allows 5 miliradian lateral miss angle while GBU-12 are "3/9" which means you just have to pass through the solution's 3-9 line (abeam of it). This is essentially unlimited lateral angle error. But right now it looks like everything is set to 5 mil constraint so make sure you have the ASL and FPM exactly aligned laterally to ensure release with all bombs.

[ac5]

Well, Frederf thank you very much indeed for your help! Now it works.

In short, the big difference between before and after stable update 2.7.16.28157, is that one has to be much more precise

and have the ASL and FPM exactly aligned laterally to ensure release with all bombs. But something is indeed odd...

First of all, the F-18 and the A-10 don't require such a precise behaviour with the very same bombs, and secondly why does the message "release angle" appear if one does not want to perform a tossing bomb release?  

Also I have noticed that the gps-guided GBU's 38 don't require such precision, but the laser-guided GBU's 12 do? Very odd indeed... 

 

[skywalker22]

Not really, I would say it's the same precision, or at least there is not big difference, at least to my self. You only have to make sure that you fly perfectly straight (it happened to me that bombs weren't released because of that) and when a solution cue comes down Flight Path Marker you keep the Weapon release button pressed. At the time of release the solution cue must be inside of the Circle cue as well.

 

[Frederf]

A-10C has different release constraints which are advertised on the HUD and they do behave differently. Try missing laterally with a GBU-12 vs. a Mk 82. I assume F/A-18 is similar.

F-16 should have more relaxed (too relaxed) release requirements for PWII (and CBU?) and it was the case earlier. I'm sure it will be changed. JDAM/WCMDs are entirely different weapons, inertially-aided munitions (IAM) which have launch-acceptable region (LAR). You get inside the LAR and initiate release, more like a missile than a bomb. Unguided (including PWII) weapons use CCIP/DTOS/CCRP. PWIII is special, too new to be old and too old to be new. Guided weapons (JDAM, JSOW, WCMD) use MP PRE/PRE/VIS.

As for "REL ANG", CCRP has loft guidance built into it for all loftable (not high drag) unguided weapons as a permanent feature. The REL ANG is just to remind you what the entered loft release angle setting is. If you aren't going to loft the weapon then you can ignore all the cues related to loft delivery.

[Jel]

As far as i tested, the Viper does not release the bomb when you got your ASL outside your Vector (outside that tiny circle seems enough already).

I was able to reproduce this several times. As soon as i did my approaches more precise, having ASL perfectly aligned, the GBU dropped like a charm.  

Edited January 11, 2023 by Jel

[AKULA_OPTIMUS]

Had the same issue, my solution was just simply press the release weapon button longer, and I mean, looonger, until the bomb drops, like, 5 or 6 seconds after the signal, when with other bombs, 1 sec of pressing is enough, with GBU-12, I need to to it this way. Have to try whit the CBUs, tho

[AngryViper.101]

Yes, to above. Also, the FPM marker has to be on the bomb fall line.

[Falconeer]

On 8/13/2022 at 7:50 PM, Frederf said:

A-10C has different release constraints which are advertised on the HUD and they do behave differently. Try missing laterally with a GBU-12 vs. a Mk 82. I assume F/A-18 is similar.

F-16 should have more relaxed (too relaxed) release requirements for PWII (and CBU?) and it was the case earlier. I'm sure it will be changed. JDAM/WCMDs are entirely different weapons, inertially-aided munitions (IAM) which have launch-acceptable region (LAR). You get inside the LAR and initiate release, more like a missile than a bomb. Unguided (including PWII) weapons use CCIP/DTOS/CCRP. PWIII is special, too new to be old and too old to be new. Guided weapons (JDAM, JSOW, WCMD) use MP PRE/PRE/VIS.

As for "REL ANG", CCRP has loft guidance built into it for all loftable (not high drag) unguided weapons as a permanent feature. The REL ANG is just to remind you what the entered loft release angle setting is. If you aren't going to loft the weapon then you can ignore all the cues related to loft delivery.

As Frederf mentioned, the release constraint for the GBU12 is way to strict at the moment. You must to be very precise or the bombs won't come off.

I created different tracks with GBU38's and GBU12's and the difference is huge! With the GBU38, i can be more then 15 degrees off target and the bombs still release (Yes, i know GBU38 uses LAR.) When dropping GBU12's however, i need to be flying very precise on the bomb fall line, or nothing will happen, same with unguided bombs.

 

This behavior is incorrect was introduced a patch or 2 ago. 

 

Even with dumb boms, you should be able to be off the bomb fall line and they should still release. The only thing changing in this scenerio is where you bombs will land. The computer (FCC) does not inhibit weapon release if you are not 100% on the bomb fall line, which it is at the moment.

 

 

F16-GBU12drop.trk F16-GBU12nodrop.trk F16-GBU38drop.trk

Edited January 20, 2023 by Falconeer

[BIGNEWY]

Please PM me your evidence about the release behaviour. 

thank you

[AKULA_OPTIMUS]

I found this video that shows exacty what is happening with these bombs, is this correct behaviour?

 

[Deano87]

9 hours ago, AKULA_OPTIMUS said:

is this correct behaviour?

Essentially yes, Ignore the loft cue if you're doing a level drop, and make sure that the circle of your FPM is touching the ASL.

[Kresomatic]

i just set release angle to 0 and bomb drops every time

[Falconeer]

11 hours ago, Kresomatic said:

i just set release angle to 0 and bomb drops every time

Release angle has nothing to do with dropping bombs in level flight, it only gives you visual cues when to start the loft