correct as is HARM cannot target EWR

[okopanja]

22 minutes ago, Nealius said:

HARMS have been used to target EWRs in real life (El Dorado Canyon, 1986 being one example). Was this capability removed in the variant modeled in DCS? Or I could be misinterpreting accounts of that operation since Shrikes were also used together with the HARMs.

 

Time, aircraft, load they used and radar they did hit? If possible link?

[Moonshine]

could only find this during a quick search about the attack: http://www.ausairpower.net/Eldorado-Canyon.html
 

the radars listed there are: "Flat Face, Low Blow, Straight Flush, Fan Song and possibly Land Roll acquisition radars associated with the Soviet supplied SA-3 Goa, SA-6 Gainful, SA-2 Guideline and SA-8 Gecko surface to air missile systems situated in Tripoli and Benghazi."

most of those are in DCS and can still be targeted by HARMS.

 

[Nealius]

So far I only have a secondary source, which I know does his research. However I cannot find primary sources on the net to confirm, and since both HARMs and Shrikes were used concurrently there's also a possibility it was Shrikes that hit the EWRs rather than the Harms. These would have been AGM-88As fired from A-7s and/or A-6s. AGM-88C~E should be programmable on the ground to go after whatever emitters are desired, IIRC.

From reading through this thread it seems to be conjecture either way, hinging on whether or our EWRs in DCS are using the bands that HARMs cannot see, or the ones it can see. 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Nealius

[Moonshine]

Seen the video too, it just does not state what he calls an EWR. Could very well just be a SR for the SA2. 

[okopanja]

2 hours ago, Moonshine said:

could only find this during a quick search about the attack: http://www.ausairpower.net/Eldorado-Canyon.html
 

the radars listed there are: "Flat Face, Low Blow, Straight Flush, Fan Song and possibly Land Roll acquisition radars associated with the Soviet supplied SA-3 Goa, SA-6 Gainful, SA-2 Guideline and SA-8 Gecko surface to air missile systems situated in Tripoli and Benghazi."

most of those are in DCS and can still be targeted by HARMS.

Nato Designation	Russian Designation (Latin)	Role	Operating Frequency	HARM target	Link
Flat Face	P-15	High mobility surveillance/acquisition Radar	830-882 MHz	Yes	Link
Low Bow	SNR-125	Target/tracking radar	9-9.6 GHz	Yes	Link
Straight Flush	1S91	Target/tracking radar	4-8 GHz	Yes	Link
Fang Song	SNR-75	Target/tracking radar	5010 - 5,090 MHz 4910 - 4990 MHz	Yes	Link
Land Roll	1S51M3-2	Target radar	6-8GHz	Yes	Link

As seen here none of these radars, are EWR.

By using similar method and reading what is posted in this topic from beginning you can determine yourself if HARM can or can not target a radar.

Edited September 17, 2022 by okopanja
Completed the list

[okopanja]

 

Now I will join @QuiGonat stating that these IDs probably do not belong here and should be removed.

Also: for anyone reading this, please read topic from start until end, and if you indeed have any new information you may reach ED and ask for correction.

[Moonshine]

29 minutes ago, okopanja said:

Nato Designation	Russian Designation (Latin)	Role	Operating Frequency	HARM target	Link
Flat Face	P-15	High mobility surveillance/acquisition Radar	830-882 MHz	Yes	Link
Low Bow	SNR-125	Target/tracking radar	9-9.6 GHz	Yes	Link
Straight Flush	1S91	Target/tracking radar	4-8 GHz	Yes	Link
Fang Song	SNR-75	Target/tracking radar	5010 - 5,090 MHz 4910 - 4990 MHz	Yes	Link
Land Roll	1S51M3-2	Target radar	6-8GHz	Yes	Link

As seen here none of these radars, are EWR.

By using similar method and reading what is posted in this topic from beginning you can determine yourself if HARM can or can not target a radar.

 

this is exactly what i said, the radars listed in the link i posted are not considered EWR (at the very least not in DCS), which leads me to believe the video referenced is just not accurate in describing what has been hit in said mission. the radars listed are search/tracking radars, in which case it makes sense that they have been targeted by harms and shirkes, nothing wrong with that. 

in essence, they are no EWRs and therefore the reference to that mission has nothing to do with the topic of this post.

[Bankler]

Version

• OB 2.8.4.38947
• MT

Bug

• HARM cannot see nor fire at some/any(?) EWR units.

Repro

• Add a client Hornet with a HARM missile and an EWR unit in the editor (1L13 or 55G6)
• Start the mission
• Observe that the search radar shows up in the RWR as S
• Observe that the radar is not visible in the HARM TOO page
• Observe that you cannot select the target in HARM SP mode

Remarks

• HARM can still see other Search radars, such as the P-19 Flat Face in the SA-2 sam site template.

Hornet_HARM_CannotSeeSearch_Bug.trk

Edited April 16, 2023 by Bankler

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

this is correct ARM can not target EWR 

thank you

[Bankler]

15 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi, 

this is correct ARM can not target EWR 

thank you

Interesting. Could you elaborate a little on this? It's confusing that an anti-radar missile wouldn't be able target a giant hostile high-value target radar.

[BIGNEWY]

ARM do not track long wave EWR 

thanks

[Blackfyre]

15 minutes ago, Bankler said:

Interesting. Could you elaborate a little on this? It's confusing that an anti-radar missile wouldn't be able target a giant hostile high-value target radar.

Give a look to this topic for more information.

 

[Bankler]

8 minutes ago, Blackfyre said:

Give a look to this topic for more information.

 

Thank you, @Blackfyre! I had totally missed that thread. 

[BIGNEWY]

threads merged

[maxTRX]

Silly question here:  Do these EWR's have any functionality in DCS?  Any equipment in any module (CA perhaps) getting updates from these radars?  Normally their position would be well known ahead of mission start so, a low flying cruise missile with bunch of Harms above to protect and distract could probably do it. 

[okopanja]

22 minutes ago, oldcrusty said:

Silly question here:  Do these EWR's have any functionality in DCS?  Any equipment in any module (CA perhaps) getting updates from these radars?  Normally their position would be well known ahead of mission start so, a low flying cruise missile with bunch of Harms above to protect and distract could probably do it. 

IMHO: this is out of topic, so lets keep it out of it. At least russian EWRs provide information to flankers over DL. Possibly they make SAMs a bit more aware, but I am not sure about that. If you need more please create new topic.

[maxTRX]

1 hour ago, okopanja said:

IMHO: this is out of topic, so lets keep it out of it. At least russian EWRs provide information to flankers over DL. Possibly they make SAMs a bit more aware, but I am not sure about that. If you need more please create new topic.

Nah, I'm good...  was just curious 

[Hulkbust44]

On 9/1/2022 at 3:27 PM, okopanja said:

VHF: 30-300MHz

HARM > 500MHz

So then why does the HARM have low-band antennas?

[GGTharos]

Which HARM?