speed-of-heat Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, pastranario3 said: Well I've got the fps back by lowering pixel density to 0.5 and increasing the multiplier since steam vr. For hp reverb 1: pixel density 1.0+steamvr 100% = pixel density 0.5+steamvr 400%. In the forum there is a calculator that helps to find the equivalences, search as PDSSCalc I wrote pdsscalc, there should be no difference in performance or clarity between if the total number of pixels are the same (which with 0.5 and 400, they would be) The processing is all done on the total pixels. I will give it a go later. Edited November 11, 2022 by speed-of-heat 1 SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware AMD 9800X3D, 64Gb RAM, 4090 FE, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, WinWIng Orion 2 & F-16EX + MFG Crosswinds V2, Varjo Aero SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VAICOM PRO YOUTUBE CHANNEL: @speed-of-heat
slughead Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 8 hours ago, RuskyV said: Yes, I have cockpit reflections disabled as a personal preference. Although I have noticed that the option seems to have no impact on the cockpit instruments, especially the warbirds with the traditional dials. You don't say if the performance inside the cockpit is better without reflections on. I'd expect it would be worse but that would be the same for 2.7. You should compare the difference in performance in 2.7 with and without cockpit reflections and the difference in 2.8 with and without reflections. Then we/you would know if there is any new impact in 2.8. Slugmouse: a finger-mounted mouse button emulator for hand-tracked VR cockpit clicking. Available now! Slugmouse Demonstration Video
pastranario3 Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 hace 3 horas, speed-of-heat dijo: I wrote pdsscalc, there should be no difference in performance or clarity between if the total number of pixels are the same (which with 0.5 and 400, they would be) The processing is all done on the total pixels. I will give it a go later. I have already talked about this several times, there are even tests that show it just by searching reddit, YouTube, even in the dcs forum. I don't have time to make a video but the test is very simple. Logic says that it would be the same to insert the values but practice shows otherwise, in vr there is no logic.
WipeUout Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 38 minutes ago, pastranario3 said: Logic says that it would be the same to insert the values but practice shows otherwise, in vr there is no logic. There is logic in it. Depending which software layer you use for supersampling, there are slight differences. I found that SteamVR is better for upscaling than using DCS pixel density or even ''render quality'' in PiTool. There are many ways to upscale an image and all those software do not use a universal upscaler. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 9800X3D, RTX 4090, 96GB DDR 5, MSI Tomahawk 870E, Crucial 2TB x 2, TM WARTHOG COMBO + PENDULAR RUDDER PEDALS, THE AMAZING PIMAX 8K X, Sony 5.1 Spks+SubW | DCS, A-10C_II, AH-64D, F-14/15E/16/18, F-86F, AV-8B, M-2000C, SA342, Huey, Spitfire, FC3.
RuskyV Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 2 hours ago, slughead said: You don't say if the performance inside the cockpit is better without reflections on. I'd expect it would be worse but that would be the same for 2.7. You should compare the difference in performance in 2.7 with and without cockpit reflections and the difference in 2.8 with and without reflections. Then we/you would know if there is any new impact in 2.8. Good point, I'll check it later 1
Baltic Pirate Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 On 10/29/2022 at 1:56 AM, Sr. said: Show of hands... how many here are running a 4090? Not yet. Waiting for mine. But really what I cannot wait is that DCS introduces multicore. These are nice, but not. That is a huge performance drop in VR. I use it exclusively. Not monitor at all. Alas I will not be updating until issues are solved. One would think that multicore and VR support would be a priority. VR and AR are the present and the future with dropping prices on hardware and more available options. I like the platform a lot, but if we take a step back with new updates in performance, well not much to look forward to.
5ephir0th Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 51 minutes ago, pastranario3 said: I have already talked about this several times, there are even tests that show it just by searching reddit, YouTube, even in the dcs forum. I don't have time to make a video but the test is very simple. Logic says that it would be the same to insert the values but practice shows otherwise, in vr there is no logic. Some of those "Youtube tests" was wrong as they are not comparing same pixel count, i did my test over Oculus software and, as @speed-of-heatsaid, comparing similar end pixel counts gets similar performance and visual quality, theres no magic 1 1 NZXT H9 Flow Black | Intel Core i5 13600KF OCed P5.6 E4.4 | Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX | G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo DDR5-6000 32GB C30 OCed 6600 C32 | nVidia GeForce RTX 4090 Founders Edition | Western Digital SN770 2TB | Gigabyte GP-UD1000GM PG5 ATX 3.0 1000W | SteelSeries Apex 7 | Razer Viper Mini | SteelSeries Artics Nova 7 | LG OLED42C2 | Xiaomi P1 55" Virpil T-50 CM2 Base + Thrustmaster Warthog Stick | WinWing Orion 2 F16EX Viper Throttle | WinWing ICP | 3 x Thrustmaster MFD | Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals | Oculus Quest 2 DCS World | Persian Gulf | Syria | Flaming Cliff 3 | P-51D Mustang | Spitfire LF Mk. IX | Fw-109 A-8 | A-10C II Tank Killer | F/A-18C Hornet | F-14B Tomcat | F-16C Viper | F-15E Strike Eagle | M2000C | Ka-50 BlackShark III | Mi-24P Hind | AH-64D Apache | SuperCarrier
speed-of-heat Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 1 hour ago, 5ephir0th said: Some of those "Youtube tests" was wrong as they are not comparing same pixel count, i did my test over Oculus software and, as @speed-of-heatsaid, comparing similar end pixel counts gets similar performance and visual quality, theres no magic This pretty much, but, it won’t take much effort to run around the buoy again… SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware AMD 9800X3D, 64Gb RAM, 4090 FE, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, WinWIng Orion 2 & F-16EX + MFG Crosswinds V2, Varjo Aero SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VAICOM PRO YOUTUBE CHANNEL: @speed-of-heat
Jarmak Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 On 11/5/2022 at 4:50 AM, BIGNEWY said: People appreciate you are passionate, but keep it friendly ( rules are at the top of the forum ). As mentioned in the newsletter we are looking into the VR performance dip some have seen, it maybe related to the new features and clouds moving, it maybe something else. It is not 100% clear yet. My performance on my rig has not changed, I am seeing no performance issues which makes it harder for me to investigate it. I would suggest if you want help to post as much info as possible DXDIAG DCS.log Screenshots of GPU control panel settings VR headset settings and res. we need data to check to try to figure it out, people who are posting that their performance has dropped but giving no detail isnt very helpful. Also to add. Like it or not open beta is and always will be a public test version. It is where we find and try to resolve the crashes and issues we can not find in closed testing before we push a build to stable. DCS will always work this way, we are constantly evolving and updating, for more than a decade now and we will continue to update and bring new features to you all. thanks As someone who actually does project management as a job IRL you don't have a public test build, you have a primary public release that you are releasing as WIP, and a backup stable build that your community barely touches. There are a wide variety of methods used by software firms to keep their open betas and test builds from becoming the primary version their customer's are using, in order to avoid this very issue. ED does pretty much exactly the opposite of that and spends all of it's marketing promoting the open beta releases while barely mentioning the stable version. As an extremely predictable result the primary product your customer base is consuming is the open beta, and that customer base is going to have some expectations of a base level of functionality. And honestly, it really doesn't matter what you think about it, what you label things, or how much you argue about it. Your customers have developed expectations as the very predictable result of decisions you've made in how you position the product, and they're going to be upset if you don't meet them. Telling them they're not allowed to be upset is just going to make them more upset; this is marketing 101 stuff. Positioning it as a WIP/Open Beta buys you a lot of leeway to have glitches or temporary downtime in functionality, but tapping the open beta sign at your power users when they're upset it's just straight not working for them anymore is not going to get you anywhere productive. 19 5
Antonisrho Posted November 11, 2022 Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) Hey folks, same here with huge FPS drop (I have an old I7 4770K processor topping at 4.2 and a 3080, oculus quest 2 and 32 GB of RAM....I know time for an upgrade!!!). I was having the same issues but having such an old processor my performance drop made the game unplayable. So I reverted back to the last 2.7 version. Then after reading about people trying this and the other I though to try 2.8 once more. Since I updated to the last version (which included the hotfix) I didn't have such a bad performance anymore! There was some loss but not as bad as before (having gone from latest 2.7 to 2.8 and then to the hotfix). Having a Quest 2 I also followed this tutorial below and my performance has jumped to 2.7 levels....or even better I know we shouldn't be going through all this tweaking....but what can you do so maybe try to revert back to latest 2.7 and then try to update again to 2.8 (which now is cleaner as it includes the hotfix). Obviously do the necessary deletion of FXO metashaders2 etc.... Edited November 11, 2022 by Antonisrho My System: MB: MSI Z790-P, CPU: i7-13700K @ 5.4 GHz, RAM: Corsair DDR5 64GB 6400MHz, SSD: NVMe Crucial P3 Plus 4TB, Nvidia 3080, Oculus Quest 2
YoYo Posted November 12, 2022 Posted November 12, 2022 (edited) I dont see any advantage of this for WMR and HP Reverb. Now, only terrain shadows OFF gives quite ok result. Im waiting for the next beta patch with optimalization . Personally I dont want to use any performance mods too, like VR shaders etc. Its a case of next issues and problems mostly. Here I saw infos about mouse issues. Edited November 12, 2022 by YoYo Webmaster of http://www.yoyosims.pl Win 10 64, i9-13900 KF, RTX 5090 32Gb OC, RAM 64Gb Corsair Vengeance LED OC@3600MHz,, 3xSSD+3xSSD M.2 NVMe, Predator XB271HU res.2560x1440 27'' G-sync, Sound Blaster Z + 5.1, TiR5, [MSFS, P3Dv5, DCS, RoF, Condor2, IL-2 CoD/BoX] VR fly only: Meta Quest Pro
speed-of-heat Posted November 12, 2022 Posted November 12, 2022 I saw an issue, that was perf related on some games on some driver subsets, allegedly nvidia have fixed it in their recent driver, so that will be my testing for today SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware AMD 9800X3D, 64Gb RAM, 4090 FE, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, WinWIng Orion 2 & F-16EX + MFG Crosswinds V2, Varjo Aero SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VAICOM PRO YOUTUBE CHANNEL: @speed-of-heat
speed-of-heat Posted November 12, 2022 Posted November 12, 2022 (edited) On 11/11/2022 at 10:09 AM, pastranario3 said: I have already talked about this several times, there are even tests that show it just by searching reddit, YouTube, even in the dcs forum. I don't have time to make a video but the test is very simple. Logic says that it would be the same to insert the values but practice shows otherwise, in vr there is no logic. Ok so if it works for you I am really happy for you, but I can say it really doesn't work for me. In a normal test, with fixed head position, (its mounted so it doesn't move to minimise any impact on viewed objects etc...) ; these are my results, not I am not using steam but OpenXR so that might be a factor, but it never was before I moved from steam so I don't believe it will be now: FPS CPU GPU Notes 58.1 7.68 15.95 PD 1.0 Render Scale 100% 57.6 7.65 16.15 PD 0.5 Render Scale 400% frame times are in miliseconds. The test was conducted in a F/A-18, over the Caucuses, using a replay track (attached) to conduct each test after allowing the machine to cool and reloaded after each adjustment. Whilst there is a nominal loss of performance at PD0.5 and 400%; this is inside the margin of error for these kinds of tests, and I would have to run multiple tests against the same set to get a real sense of if its real or not, and honestly, I can't be bothered Conclusion This is still performance driven on the total number of pixels, and how you derive them PD or Render scale is totally irrelevant, it is the total number that is the determining factor. e.g. no magic. performance track 2.8.0.trk Edited November 12, 2022 by speed-of-heat 3 SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware AMD 9800X3D, 64Gb RAM, 4090 FE, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, WinWIng Orion 2 & F-16EX + MFG Crosswinds V2, Varjo Aero SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VAICOM PRO YOUTUBE CHANNEL: @speed-of-heat
speed-of-heat Posted November 12, 2022 Posted November 12, 2022 2 hours ago, speed-of-heat said: I saw an issue, that was perf related on some games on some driver subsets, allegedly nvidia have fixed it in their recent driver, so that will be my testing for today so I also tried the latest nVidia driver, no real substantive difference, but the numbers are here: FPS CPU(ms) GPU (ms) Notes 58.10 7.68 15.95 PD 1.0 Render Scale 100% 58.10 7.53 15.64 526.86 Driver there is a very slight improvement, but this is margin of error and it has no practical impact in anycase. 1 4 SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware AMD 9800X3D, 64Gb RAM, 4090 FE, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, WinWIng Orion 2 & F-16EX + MFG Crosswinds V2, Varjo Aero SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VAICOM PRO YOUTUBE CHANNEL: @speed-of-heat
pastranario3 Posted November 12, 2022 Posted November 12, 2022 (edited) hace 6 horas, speed-of-heat dijo: Ok so if it works for you I am really happy for you, but I can say it really doesn't work for me. In a normal test, with fixed head position, (its mounted so it doesn't move to minimise any impact on viewed objects etc...) ; these are my results, not I am not using steam but OpenXR so that might be a factor, but it never was before I moved from steam so I don't believe it will be now: FPS CPU GPU Notes 58.1 7.68 15.95 PD 1.0 Render Scale 100% 57.6 7.65 16.15 PD 0.5 Render Scale 400% frame times are in miliseconds. The test was conducted in a F/A-18, over the Caucuses, using a replay track (attached) to conduct each test after allowing the machine to cool and reloaded after each adjustment. Whilst there is a nominal loss of performance at PD0.5 and 400%; this is inside the margin of error for these kinds of tests, and I would have to run multiple tests against the same set to get a real sense of if its real or not, and honestly, I can't be bothered Conclusion This is still performance driven on the total number of pixels, and how you derive them PD or Render scale is totally irrelevant, it is the total number that is the determining factor. e.g. no magic. performance track 2.8.0.trk 1.78 MB · 3 descargas As has become usual in this forum try to demonstrate each thing with which you try to help. Here I upload two videos where the first is PD 0.5 - SteamVR 400% and the second PD 1 - STEAMVR 100%. I understand that each rig is different, one shares trying to help, the one who is served welcome to the one who doesn't and well... PD 0.5 - STEAMVR 400% -45FPS PD 1.0 - STEAMVR 100% - 35FPS Edited November 12, 2022 by pastranario3 1
speed-of-heat Posted November 12, 2022 Posted November 12, 2022 as i said i cant replicate it, if you can good for you SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware AMD 9800X3D, 64Gb RAM, 4090 FE, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, WinWIng Orion 2 & F-16EX + MFG Crosswinds V2, Varjo Aero SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VAICOM PRO YOUTUBE CHANNEL: @speed-of-heat
WipeUout Posted November 12, 2022 Posted November 12, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, pastranario3 said: As has become usual in this forum try to demonstrate each thing with which you try to help. Here I upload two videos where the first is PD 0.5 - SteamVR 400% and the second PD 1 - STEAMVR 100%. I understand that each rig is different, one shares trying to help, the one who is served welcome to the one who doesn't and well... PD 0.5 - STEAMVR 400% -45FPS PD 1.0 - STEAMVR 100% - 35FPS Is this some kind of a joke? It not even the same video and you compare FPS? At least go through the effort of making a track and test with a minimum of rigor!! With the same settings, if pixel count is the same, performance will be the same and image quality will be the same. As it was said and demonstrated, there is no magic. Edited November 12, 2022 by WipeUout Typo 1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 9800X3D, RTX 4090, 96GB DDR 5, MSI Tomahawk 870E, Crucial 2TB x 2, TM WARTHOG COMBO + PENDULAR RUDDER PEDALS, THE AMAZING PIMAX 8K X, Sony 5.1 Spks+SubW | DCS, A-10C_II, AH-64D, F-14/15E/16/18, F-86F, AV-8B, M-2000C, SA342, Huey, Spitfire, FC3.
pastranario3 Posted November 12, 2022 Posted November 12, 2022 hace 20 minutos, WipeUout dijo: Is this some kind of a joke? It not even the same video and you compare FPS? At least go through the effort of making a track and test with a minimum of rigor!! With the same settings, if pixel count is the same, performance will be the same and image quality will be the same. As it was said and demonstrated, there is no magic. haha too much, until here comes the one who wants to try it the one who doesn't. Make your own videos. Greetings.
exil Posted November 12, 2022 Posted November 12, 2022 3 hours ago, pastranario3 said: As has become usual in this forum try to demonstrate each thing with which you try to help. Here I upload two videos where the first is PD 0.5 - SteamVR 400% and the second PD 1 - STEAMVR 100%. I understand that each rig is different, one shares trying to help, the one who is served welcome to the one who doesn't and well... PD 0.5 - STEAMVR 400% -45FPS PD 1.0 - STEAMVR 100% - 35FPS Sorry, but these are two different setups. I would measure GPU frametimes instead of FPS (to cleaning out any CPU factor) and do a track file and replay that with the headset lying on a table or a mount. No rant here, but this way it's not really comparable. 1 GeForce RTX 4090 Founders Edition - AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D - 64Gb RAM - Win11 - HP Reverb G1 - Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS (40cm extension) - VKB Sim T-Rudder MKIV Pedals
WipeUout Posted November 13, 2022 Posted November 13, 2022 12 hours ago, pastranario3 said: haha too much, until here comes the one who wants to try it the one who doesn't. Make your own videos. Greetings. Oh but I tried, and results were just the same with 0.3 FPS apart. Use a track, it is more rigorous and credible. 1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 9800X3D, RTX 4090, 96GB DDR 5, MSI Tomahawk 870E, Crucial 2TB x 2, TM WARTHOG COMBO + PENDULAR RUDDER PEDALS, THE AMAZING PIMAX 8K X, Sony 5.1 Spks+SubW | DCS, A-10C_II, AH-64D, F-14/15E/16/18, F-86F, AV-8B, M-2000C, SA342, Huey, Spitfire, FC3.
speed-of-heat Posted November 13, 2022 Posted November 13, 2022 Well I don’t “know” I have my suspicions, but, they are unfounded as I have no evidence, I can say that such and such is different (such as the shadows in the cockpit canopy) but without the ability to turn that off and measure the delta, it’s pretty hard (for us) to say *this is the cause*, what makes it hard for ED is it’s not consistent, some people got a perf bump, some not, some a hit. The code paths are quite complex when you take in all the options that are possible, from different versionsnof hardware, to windows, different types of vr, to variations in settings and mods and on and on… SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware AMD 9800X3D, 64Gb RAM, 4090 FE, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, WinWIng Orion 2 & F-16EX + MFG Crosswinds V2, Varjo Aero SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VAICOM PRO YOUTUBE CHANNEL: @speed-of-heat
fab.13 Posted November 13, 2022 Posted November 13, 2022 20 minutes ago, AirMeister said: Does anyone know the actual cause ? And i don't mean - turn of these options for higher fps -. Is it here to stay because they did something with the clouds ? Or are the shadows all calculated by the 1 core in the CPU instead of the graphics card ? What is the actual cause and is it actually a bug or just not solvable with the current code or engine or whatever ? Hello if New code has been added to dcs ( added and not replaced ), then frametime must be affected ( more computing ) And new code comes with bugs sometime…( beta ) Same about gpu: more Light source and so on we already met DCS open beta fps dropdown when the previous Lightning systèm was introduced and we have been drived to redo settings from scratch while ed has improved performances in the same Time ( it taked time )
Burt Posted November 13, 2022 Posted November 13, 2022 The only way is to go back to 2D. I cant tweak this perf issue out. ALIENWARE R11 - I9 10900KF @ 5.1 GHz - M.2 NVMe 2TB - RTX3090 - XFURY 64GB -3400 MHz RAM Monitor AW3420DW @ 120Hz - Virpil CM3 Throttle - TM TPR Rudder pedals - Virpil CM2 w/TM Hornet Stick Center - Monstertech Deck Mounts RealSimulator FSSB-R3 Lightning Base w/ F16SRGRH SideStick - VR user / Varjo Aero - Big Thx to mbucchia Start Date April 2020
fab.13 Posted November 13, 2022 Posted November 13, 2022 The last hotfix about shadows is an example, let’s see if another patch will improve this point or not loading Time in some past version was very bad and have been improved.., So improvment or bug fix about performances exist
C3PO Posted November 13, 2022 Posted November 13, 2022 On 11/11/2022 at 4:49 PM, Jarmak said: As someone who actually does project management as a job IRL you don't have a public test build, you have a primary public release that you are releasing as WIP, and a backup stable build that your community barely touches. There are a wide variety of methods used by software firms to keep their open betas and test builds from becoming the primary version their customer's are using, in order to avoid this very issue. ED does pretty much exactly the opposite of that and spends all of it's marketing promoting the open beta releases while barely mentioning the stable version. As an extremely predictable result the primary product your customer base is consuming is the open beta, and that customer base is going to have some expectations of a base level of functionality. And honestly, it really doesn't matter what you think about it, what you label things, or how much you argue about it. Your customers have developed expectations as the very predictable result of decisions you've made in how you position the product, and they're going to be upset if you don't meet them. Telling them they're not allowed to be upset is just going to make them more upset; this is marketing 101 stuff. Positioning it as a WIP/Open Beta buys you a lot of leeway to have glitches or temporary downtime in functionality, but tapping the open beta sign at your power users when they're upset it's just straight not working for them anymore is not going to get you anywhere productive. Couldn't put it better myself. Excellent post. 9 Now: Water-cooled Ryzen 5800X + 64GB DDR 4 3600 (running at 3200) RAM + EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra 24 GB + Pimax Crystal Light + Add-on PCI-e 3.1 card + 2x1TB Corsair M.2 4900/4200 + TM HOTAS Warthog + TM TPR Pendular Rudder 'Engaged Defensive' YouTube Channel Modules: F/A-18C / AV-8B / F-16 / F-15E / F-4E / Persian Gulf / Syria / Nevada / Sinai / South Atlantic / Afghanistan / Iraq Backup: Water-cooled i7 6700K @ 4.5GHz + 32GB DDR4 3200MHz + GTX 1080 8GB + 1TB M.2 1k drive & 4K 40" monitor + TrackIR
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