planned for summer 2025 AN/AAQ-33 Advanced Targeting Pod?

[jojojung]

The question is will the lightning pod will be downgraded to realistic standarts or not. 

The Sniper pod is by far the Most advanced pod in term of picture quality. Now in DCS it is more blurry then the Atflir, Lightning or even Lantirn pod. That is a problem.

A downgrade would be good in terms of realism but will starte a rage for those who can not mount the Sniper pod.

[NineLine]

2 hours ago, jojojung said:

The question is will the lightning pod will be downgraded to realistic standarts or not. 

The Sniper pod is by far the Most advanced pod in term of picture quality. Now in DCS it is more blurry then the Atflir, Lightning or even Lantirn pod. That is a problem.

A downgrade would be good in terms of realism but will starte a rage for those who can not mount the Sniper pod.

I will ask if this will be adjusted or updated.

[YoYo]

On 7/16/2025 at 8:11 PM, jojojung said:

The question is will the lightning pod will be downgraded to realistic standarts or not. 

The Sniper pod is by far the Most advanced pod in term of picture quality. Now in DCS it is more blurry then the Atflir, Lightning or even Lantirn pod. That is a problem.

A downgrade would be good in terms of realism but will starte a rage for those who can not mount the Sniper pod.

AN/AAQ-28 LITENING G4:

Thermal Imaging Camera (FLIR):

• Resolution: 640×512 pixels (average for the G4 version)
• In newer versions (LITENING NEXT GEN): 1280×1024 pixels (HD)

CCD Camera (Daylight/Visible):

Resolution: Typically High Definition (HD), meaning at least 1280×720 or 1920×1080 (Full HD) in newer versions.

AN/AAQ-33 Sniper:

Sniper XR / ATP-SE FLIR:

• Resolution: 640×512 pixels

Sniper Advanced (Gen 3):

• Estimated: 1280×1024 pixels, similar to the competing LITENING Next Gen.

CCD TV camera:

• HD 1280×720 (most common in older and base versions)
• Possible: 1920×1080 (Full HD) in newer and export versions of Sniper SE

That's right, and in my opinion, the image shouldn't have such blur in the basic mode. I know of a pilot who told me he could read the headline of a newspaper read by a human, but in the videos presented, it's likely even difficult to see a human because the image is blurry. As you can also see above, the resolution of the matrices is similar, I would not suggest downgrading Lightning now, because we will again deviate from reality. Sniper's advantage is the quality of its zoom and software (multitargeting, PiP etc); as you can see, the resolution itself is quite similar. It's also worth remembering that the image in the cockpit is meant to simulate reality, but we're sitting in a digital cockpit generated by DCS, which is a distinct disadvantage compared to the real thing and significantly reduces visibility. Let's not go down that route. Lightning image reception is okay, and the image from the Sniper pod should be just as good, but now someone here is trying to make things a bit more complicated.  This creates a blurry effect (no focus, like in cameras). Please take a closer look. Thank you.

Do you see the quality of the moon? 

This video is not a good example and should not be relied on - it is stretched, was recorded 11 years ago, and has probably been edited to a lower quality.

Other Sniper's examples:

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed-martin/mfc/pc/sniper-pod/mfc-sniper-atp-pc-01.pdf

https://www.military.com/video/4321763059001

Edited Friday at 04:54 PM by YoYo

[jack333]

Hi. With the new Sniper, do I still have to adjust the bore the same way as the Mavericks? Thanks, and best regards.

 

[YoYo]

Just now, jack333 said:

Hi. With the new Sniper, do I still have to adjust the bore the same way as the Mavericks? Thanks, and best regards.

Good question, however I think yes.

[NineLine]

9 hours ago, jack333 said:

Hi. With the new Sniper, do I still have to adjust the bore the same way as the Mavericks? Thanks, and best regards.

 

Yes you will, thanks!

[Northstar98]

9 hours ago, YoYo said:

AN/AAQ-28 LITENING G4:

Thermal Imaging Camera (FLIR):

• Resolution: 640×512 pixels (average for the G4 version)
• In newer versions (LITENING NEXT GEN): 1280×1024 pixels (HD)

CCD Camera (Daylight/Visible):

Resolution: Typically High Definition (HD), meaning at least 1280×720 or 1920×1080 (Full HD) in newer versions.

According to the DCS F-16 manual, the LITENING variant we should have is the II, which has a 256×256 resolution for FLIR.

To me, most targeting pods in-game seem to be overperforming, especially when it comes to digital zooms which appear perfectly lossless. Something that seems to be changing with Sniper.

[YoYo]

24 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

256×256

And that's interesting :). However, with such a small MFD frame (it's not an F-15E) in 16th at lower resolutions the image may still seem quite sharp for eye's human. I wouldn't go for any downgrade here.

[Northstar98]

1 hour ago, YoYo said:

And that's interesting :). However, with such a small MFD frame (it's not an F-15E) in 16th at lower resolutions the image may still seem quite sharp for eye's human. I wouldn't go for any downgrade here.

Yeah, but you do 9x digital zoom and (minus any post-processing enhancement, which won't be perfect), that gets cut down to 29x29 and yet in DCS it seems perfectly lossless.

[NineLine]

3 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

According to the DCS F-16 manual, the LITENING variant we should have is the II, which has a 256×256 resolution for FLIR.

To me, most targeting pods in-game seem to be overperforming, especially when it comes to digital zooms which appear perfectly lossless. Something that seems to be changing with Sniper.

We are looking at this now, but understand that there isnt a ton of good info on these as you might expect (although I have found some). We will see if it makes sense to tune where needed, but also we have to consider that some people might get grumpy if their sensor is downgraded some. 

2 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Yeah, but you do 9x digital zoom and (minus any post-processing enhancement, which won't be perfect), that gets cut down to 29x29 and yet in DCS it seems perfectly lossless.

Yeah, I would assume if a pod has image enhancement of any sort, there is a reason why they have it. 

[Northstar98]

45 minutes ago, NineLine said:

but also we have to consider that some people might get grumpy if their sensor is downgraded some.

Well, isn't this supposed to be one of the reasons multiple targeting pod options exist? I'd argue that if current targeting pods are kept in their current state, that negates some of the effort going into newer, more advanced sensors like AN/AAQ-33.

Also, shouldn't this game be about depicting stuff accurately? Of course where it's feasible and practical to do so?

45 minutes ago, NineLine said:

Yeah, I would assume if a pod has image enhancement of any sort, there is a reason why they have it.

Of course, but no image enhancement can perfectly replace data that's necessarily lost when using digital zoom (considering what digital zoom does is take a crop of the image and then enlarge it to fit the display).

Edited Friday at 09:13 PM by Northstar98

[szymixzmb]

I am also on the simulation side, if your outcome is that other pods are overperforming just downgrade it

[felixx75]

10 hours ago, NineLine said:

...but also we have to consider that some people might get grumpy if their sensor is downgraded some. 

This is probably because there are some people who only want a realistic implementation where it doesn't "hurt" them. The moment a more realistic realisation makes things "more difficult", this is suddenly no longer so important.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

4 hours ago, felixx75 said:

The moment a more realistic realisation makes things "more difficult", this is suddenly no longer so important.

That’s always been a problem, that is present even in Flaming Cliffs: years ago ED launched a poll asking the community if the reworked Su-33 (new FM with realistic modelling of the canards, among other changes) should have a display light in the cockpit for dorsal air brake deployment (not realistic) or have the indicator light non-functional (realistic).

The community at large vastly preferred the non-realistic option, so that’s what we got…

[Northstar98]

3 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

That’s always been a problem, that is present even in Flaming Cliffs: years ago ED launched a poll asking the community if the reworked Su-33 (new FM with realistic modelling of the canards, among other changes) should have a display light in the cockpit for dorsal air brake deployment (not realistic) or have the indicator light non-functional (realistic).

The community at large vastly preferred the non-realistic option, so that’s what we got…

I wonder if they went for the realistic option in the first place, I wonder how much of an issue people grumbling about a display light or targeting pods not having far beyond the resolution they should have would be, or if there'd be much grumbling at all. 

[NineLine]

20 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Well, isn't this supposed to be one of the reasons multiple targeting pod options exist? I'd argue that if current targeting pods are kept in their current state, that negates some of the effort going into newer, more advanced sensors like AN/AAQ-33.

Also, shouldn't this game be about depicting stuff accurately? Of course where it's feasible and practical to do so?

Of course, but no image enhancement can perfectly replace data that's necessarily lost when using digital zoom (considering what digital zoom does is take a crop of the image and then enlarge it to fit the display).

All that is well and good, but sensor data is not always easy to come by, and even when you do find something, it's not really showing what is going on, what processing is being done, what resolution, etc. We are recreating things that are not always, or hardly ever clearly spelled out for anyone. 

 

5 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

That’s always been a problem, that is present even in Flaming Cliffs: years ago ED launched a poll asking the community if the reworked Su-33 (new FM with realistic modelling of the canards, among other changes) should have a display light in the cockpit for dorsal air brake deployment (not realistic) or have the indicator light non-functional (realistic).

The community at large vastly preferred the non-realistic option, so that’s what we got…

Well, we always have to consider all playstyles for DCS. Some people do not want 1:1 pixel recreation; they want to find a tank and blow it up. Our goal is always to get as real as possible, but things like spotting dots and others are needed and not considered "realisitc".

[felixx75]

36 minutes ago, NineLine said:

Well, we always have to consider all playstyles for DCS. Some people do not want 1:1 pixel recreation; they want to find a tank and blow it up. Our goal is always to get as real as possible, but things like spotting dots and others are needed and not considered "realisitc".

That is understandable, of course. So how about improving the image quality of the LANTIRN Pod too? You have to search for pixels there too...

(ED could suggest this to Heatblur, for example) 

[NineLine]

13 minutes ago, felixx75 said:

That is understandable, of course. So how about improving the image quality of the LANTIRN Pod too? You have to search for pixels there too...

(ED could suggest this to Heatblur, for example) 

I would have to trust that they did their research and made it as close as they could to what they know to be accurate. If its not or you want a sort of easy or cheat mode that is best taken up with them as they control their project. 

[felixx75]

26 minutes ago, NineLine said:

I would have to trust that they did their research and made it as close as they could to what they know to be accurate. If its not or you want a sort of easy or cheat mode that is best taken up with them as they control their project. 

I'm afraid you've misunderstood me here

I would prefer the quality of the Lightning to be adjusted according to the quality of the upcoming Sniper Pod (i.e. corrected downwards, so to speak). The above argument doesn't really count in my eyes if you look at the LANTIRN Pod and its image quality, for example (yes, I know that's Heatblur's thing).

But be that as it may, I don't really have any influence on it.

[TobiasA]

The current pod of the Viper is a mix between Litening and LANTIRN, as the Litening doesn't have TV and LST iirc.

However, the pod has more issues, like having bushes appearing brighter than trucks at some time of the day. Sometimes, IR has wild textures. And it has a tendency to lock street lights instead of trucks or tanks.

It is what it is, and I understand not wanting to change it as of now, as the ATP is around the corner and the Litening pod will be reworked to more closely represent the Litening pod.

And I think that that's the way to go.

[Schmidtfire]

56 minutes ago, TobiasA said:

and the Litening pod will be reworked to more closely represent the Litening pod.

I have not heard anything of this. From what I know, they hope to make the Lantirn pod, but no rework of the current Litening (not enough data).

[Tholozor]

1 hour ago, TobiasA said:

as the Litening doesn't have TV and LST iirc.

That's LANTIRN.

[TobiasA]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Schmidtfire:

I have not heard anything of this. From what I know, they hope to make the Lantirn pod, but no rework of the current Litening (not enough data).

 

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Tholozor:

That's LANTIRN.

You are both right. Litening has TV and LST but there was the discussion about reworking the current pod into a realistic LANTIRN which would mean that those functions would have been gone on the current pod.

I mixed up those two.

 

[YoYo]

It looks like we'll get Sniper today .

 

Edited 1 hour ago by YoYo