skypickle Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 In the attached track, the helo is hot started. After achieving level flight, heading 090 at 115 knots,the helo will roll to the right when cyclic is pulled aft (only a little) Then (heading 109 at 105 knts) pushing cyclic forward causes a left roll so severe resulting in an inversion. Look at the controls box to see that only pitch was manipulated. This is what I would expect from gyroscopic precession. Doesnt the FADEC (or FCS) take gyroscopic precession into account and adjust the blades to prevent this (basically fly by wire)? ApacheRoll2.trk 4930K @ 4.5, 32g ram, TitanPascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgillers3 Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 38 minutes ago, skypickle said: Doesnt the FADEC (or FCS) take gyroscopic precession into account and adjust the blades to prevent this (basically fly by wire)? ApacheRoll2.trk 4.63 MB · 0 downloads So, the controls are rigged for gyroscopic precession. Otherwise to change the pitch you would have to move the controls laterally. I imagine that the effect is them fine tuning the flight model. But all helicopters even the most rudimentary flight control systems have their controls so that pitch is off set so the blades actually feather in vicinity of the 3-9 o clock positions and for roll in vicinity of the 12-06 clock positions. The scas systems of helicopters helps, but the mechanisms that control the blades are usually mechanically offset. tl,dr gyroscopic precession isn’t something the pilot deals with except with going through etl usually. It’s engineered/designed to be countered. This is more and likely them working out the flight model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedlike. Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 we already have confirmation by the devs that the current FM is wrong and that there should be no roll, so im confident it will get adressed, the question is when 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1130 Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 SO WHEN I miss the old days when Novalogic's Comanche Gold is on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiki Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 2 weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedlike. Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 my guess is that they stoped working on smal fixes and are probly gonna redo the whole FM / SCAS logic and we wont see a fix on it till that one comes out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlomo1933 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 I‚m Not shure if the flightmodel was changing in the last 2 patches… maybe it’s just me, but I think the Apache feels a bit different. Someone else is noticing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOG Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 On 3/22/2023 at 8:25 AM, Schlomo1933 said: I‚m Not shure if the flightmodel was changing in the last 2 patches… maybe it’s just me, but I think the Apache feels a bit different. Someone else is noticing this? i kind of felt the same but the devs already said they didn't change anything to the flight model in the last patches. so i am a bit confused now lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiki Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 17 minutes ago, DOG said: i kind of felt the same but the devs already said they didn't change anything to the flight model in the last patches. so i am a bit confused now lol They also didn't do anything to holding modes when those got broken. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 vor 14 Stunden schrieb admiki: They also didn't do anything to holding modes when those got broken. Actually they did... As per changelog (...)"Fixed: Attitude Hold "enable" conditions"(...) Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorns Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 Flight feels like it did last year...wants to roll... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CervO Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 (edited) I confirm the same, more then ever since the last update when reducing collective the Apache rolls right like a wild horse. It was kind of existing before but not so much, here it is kind of crazy. Hopefully the real one doesn't behave like that because there would be a lot of RIP. Can't believe nothing was changed that impacts the flight model .. it is so obvious. Edited April 17, 2023 by CervO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd1212 Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 18 minutes ago, CervO said: reducing collective the Apache rolls right like a wild horse Please post a track or a video (with the Controls Indicator visible) so others can see what you are experiencing. I'm not sure how much or how fast you are dropping the collective, nor do I know how much a wild horse rolls, having never ridden one. (Yes, I understand capturing a video and hosting it is not a trivial matter, but recording a track is quite easy.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShuRugal Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 3 hours ago, Floyd1212 said: (Yes, I understand capturing a video and hosting it is not a trivial matter, but recording a track is quite easy.) Recording app video has never been easier: Using Windows Game Bar: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/record-a-game-clip-on-your-pc-with-xbox-game-bar-2f477001-54d4-1276-9144-b0416a307f3c#ID0EDD=Windows_10 Using GeForce Experience: https://www.trustedreviews.com/how-to/how-to-record-video-with-nvidia-shadowplay-4278309 Using AMD Radeon: https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/dh2-023 as far as hosting it goes, there are dozens of free HD-video hosting websites, YouTube being foremost among them for ease of use and accessibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMH Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 On 12/10/2022 at 6:50 PM, kgillers3 said: So, the controls are rigged for gyroscopic precession. Otherwise to change the pitch you would have to move the controls laterally. I imagine that the effect is them fine tuning the flight model. But all helicopters even the most rudimentary flight control systems have their controls so that pitch is off set so the blades actually feather in vicinity of the 3-9 o clock positions and for roll in vicinity of the 12-06 clock positions. The scas systems of helicopters helps, but the mechanisms that control the blades are usually mechanically offset. tl,dr gyroscopic precession isn’t something the pilot deals with except with going through etl usually. It’s engineered/designed to be countered. This is more and likely them working out the flight model I was always taught this as well but when I look at the rigging of the Huey it doesn't seem to be the case. Push forward on the cyclic and the pitch at the 6:00 position increases, etc. Is this incorrect as I've always suspected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiki Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, SMH said: I was always taught this as well but when I look at the rigging of the Huey it doesn't seem to be the case. Push forward on the cyclic and the pitch at the 6:00 position increases, etc. Is this incorrect as I've always suspected? I don't see that? Are you looking at blades or non-rotating swashplate? Edited April 19, 2023 by admiki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMH Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 15 hours ago, admiki said: I don't see that? Are you looking at blades or non-rotating swashplate? At the swashplate with a non-running engine. Use LCtrl+F11 to fly right up to the rotor head and look down at the swashplate. The swashplate tilts in the same direction the cyclic is pushed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiki Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 1 hour ago, SMH said: At the swashplate with a non-running engine. Use LCtrl+F11 to fly right up to the rotor head and look down at the swashplate. The swashplate tilts in the same direction the cyclic is pushed in. But, it is offset by 90 degrees. Blades move as they are supposed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMH Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 1 hour ago, admiki said: But, it is offset by 90 degrees. Blades move as they are supposed to. It's not though. Take a look. Push the cyclic forward and the swash plate tilts forward. (I realize that's just the visual representation and not necessarily what the flight model is modeling. But might point towards some confusion somewhere.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiki Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 2 hours ago, SMH said: It's not though. Take a look. Push the cyclic forward and the swash plate tilts forward. (I realize that's just the visual representation and not necessarily what the flight model is modeling. But might point towards some confusion somewhere.) Swashplate just transfers pitch to blades, you need to look at blades themselves. Swashplate and blades move as they should Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted April 21, 2023 ED Team Share Posted April 21, 2023 Folks this is reported and when there is changes to the FM it will be in the change log. thank you Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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