Increase AG weapon splash damage

[FrostLaufeyson]

The problem of air to ground weapon damage has been around for a long time. Since there is no damage model for ground vehicles, why not increase the power of weapons directly? I don't believe that a Mk84 can't destroy a tank if it deviates a few meters.

I've used the splash damage script, but it's not available on every server. And the units killed by the script will not be recorded and fed back to the player. 

When will ED be able to improve this embarrassing situation? Does each of us have to make the bomb hit the tank perfectly?

[draconus]

On 12/15/2022 at 5:03 AM, FrostLaufeyson said:

Does each of us have to make the bomb hit the tank perfectly?

Yes, because you don't just carpet bomb the tanks. The bomb splash will not simply "destroy" the highly armored tank. Since we have very crude ground vehicle damage model you can get a few health points and that's it. To get mobility kill or some sensor degradation we need the new DM.

The new DM is in plans so we just have to wait. Changing the weapon damage value can be and is done in some cases but it creates issues elsewhere.

Use LGB, guided missile or cluster bombs instead.

[razo+r]

25 minutes ago, draconus said:

Since we have very crude ground vehicle damage model you can get a few health points and that's it.

Increasing damage of a unit will also decrease the top speed and reaction time and can even make a unit stop responding to certain threats before the unit got completely destroyed. 

[FrostLaufeyson]

36分钟前，draconus说：

Yes, because you don't just carpet bomb the tanks. The bomb splash will not simply "destroy" the highly armored tank. Since we have very crude ground vehicle damage model you can get a few health points and that's it. To get mobility kill or some sensor degradation we need the new DM.

The new DM is in plans so we just have to wait. Changing the weapon damage value can be and is done in some cases but it creates issues elsewhere.

Use LGB, guided missile or cluster bombs instead.

At least it won't work like this in reality

I'd love to practice using various unguided weapons if the weapons were as powerful as the splash damage script. I'm a big fan of ground attack with rockets, but apparently rockets aren't as powerful as they look in DCS, and you have to figure out how to get these inaccurate weapons straight at the target to kill them (that means you need to stick to the target very close, which is very dangerous).

[draconus]

19 minutes ago, FrostLaufeyson said:

that means you need to stick to the target very close, which is very dangerous

Yeah, guess why guided munition was invented. Rockets are cool but are more effective toward unarmoured or light armor targets.

[BIGNEWY]

As we have mentioned many times before the splash damage is correct, but the ground unit damage can only be shown as alive, or burning / dead.

To see actual damage you need to check the BDA or check the F10 health bars on the units to see the % of damage done. 

In the future we plan to have better damage models for ground units, but I have no ETA to share on this. 

thanks

 

[Moonshine]

As per page 48 in this document:

https://www.gichd.org/fileadmin/GICHD-resources/rec-documents/Explosive_weapon_effects_web.pdf

Mk 82 aircraft bomb produces
a peak overpressure of 117 kPa at 16 m from the point of detonation. The design
fragment from this weapon is less than 20 grams travelling at 2400 m/s, and at this
distance the natural fragments generated by the detonation will penetrate up to
32 mm of steel armour plate.

 

This is not what we see in DCS to date. Not to mention DCS does not simulate fragmentation. So even if the weapon blast is correct to the numbers, it does significantly less in DCS than it should.

 

for reference, this is what happens in DCS with a bomb twice as strong as the mk82:

Edited December 16, 2022 by Moonshine

[Hiob]

https://github.com/spencershepard/RotorOps/search?q=Splash+damage

 

[FrostLaufeyson]

4小时前，Moonshine说：

not what we see in DCS to date. Not to mention DCS does not simulate fragmentation. So even if the weapon blast is correct to the numbers, it does significantly less in DCS than it should.

Well that's fair enough, thanks for the explanation

4小时前，BIGNEWY说：

In the future we plan to have better damage models for ground units, but I have no ETA to share on this. 

Thanks for the reply, but whether it's my personal thoughts or all the friends around me who play DCS, we all agree that this issue should be put on the agenda as soon as possible. Because all air combat is for ground service after all.

[upyr1]

On 12/14/2022 at 10:03 PM, FrostLaufeyson said:

The problem of air to ground weapon damage has been around for a long time. Since there is no damage model for ground vehicles, why not increase the power of weapons directly? I don't believe that a Mk84 can't destroy a tank if it deviates a few meters.

That might be accurate for a tank. I have heard of tanks surviving a phantom load of bombs. However there softer vehicles are a bigger issue.