Deka Simulations announces the DCS: J-8II for DCS World!

[Dragon1-1]

Just now, Nahen said:

This plane was never built... 

What's this, then? 

Hint: not a mockup. The plane was built, two of them to be exact. I don't know if it flew, but it looks like it might have. This is the only J-8 we're realistically going to get. This will likely be a very accurate simulation of an aircraft that simply never ended up in wide service. Which, incidentally, is probably the only reason they've been allowed to make a module out of it. Asking for actual Chinese aircraft is a waste of time, and in the current political climate, for Russian ones, too. This is suboptimal but it's the only way we're getting anything Chinese. In fact, expect it to get worse, since there had been some worrying signals from China as of late.

[Fromthedeep]

6 minutes ago, J20Stronk said:

More believable than the functional station 4/6 HARMs on the Viper, Spanish LITENING on an American Hornet and the entirety of BS3. 

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[gzj3401]

 

Asking for actual Chinese aircraft is a waste of time, and in the current political climate, for Russian ones, too. This is suboptimal but it's the only way we're getting anything Chinese. In fact, expect it to get worse, since there had been some worrying signals from China as of late.

exactly

[MK84]

1 hour ago, J20Stronk said:

The thing that scares me the most is the SPO10-looking RWR in those cockpit pictures .

You and me both. 

Does this taxi like the MiG-21 or does it have steerable nosewheel?

[Silver_Dragon]

52 minutes ago, Nahen said:

DCS starting to turn towards World of Tanks? This plane was never built... In fact, there will be X-Wings soon... Only named Shenyang X-Wing to make it easier to push them...

please, dont break the rules and start to attack 3rd party decisions. Build chinesse / Russian aircrafts has a "problem".

[Exorcet]

2 hours ago, Fromthedeep said:

A DCS module shouldn't be reduced into its metagaming capabilities if one is interested in the simulation aspect.

The J-8PP fully meets the criteria of a simulation. Simulation does not mean historical accuracy, and never has. The only take away you can make here is that people are open to simulations that are outside of historical events. This has been the case since before DCS was released as even LOMAC was based on fictional combat involving simulated aircraft.

[Nahen]

1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

What's this, then? 

Hint: not a mockup. The plane was built, two of them to be exact. I don't know if it flew, but it looks like it might have. This is the only J-8 we're realistically going to get. This will likely be a very accurate simulation of an aircraft that simply never ended up in wide service. Which, incidentally, is probably the only reason they've been allowed to make a module out of it. Asking for actual Chinese aircraft is a waste of time, and in the current political climate, for Russian ones, too. This is suboptimal but it's the only way we're getting anything Chinese. In fact, expect it to get worse, since there had been some worrying signals from China as of late.

A simple question - why make aircraft modules that were only prototypes? World of Tanks wellcomes...
This one was also in two copies that certainly fly:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/Northrop_YF-23_DFRC.jpg
Probably this one too:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_YA-9#/media/File:Northrop_YA-9_prototype.jpg
Or maybe this one:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Lavochkin_La-250_Monino_2008.jpg

I'm starting to worry about where DCS is going...

24 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

please, dont break the rules and start to attack 3rd party decisions. Build chinesse / Russian aircrafts has a "problem".

I'm not attacking ED or anyone in this case. I'm just trying to understand what's the point of working on something like this to eventually want to put it in DCS? Just enough. I even secretly hope that ED will block this thing in case ... Maybe it's better for a team like Deka to use its design forces on e.g. MiG-27, MiG-25, Su-15, Su-17/22, Su-27 ... I think a lot more people would be happy with such FF modules.

[Silver_Dragon]

12 minutes ago, Nahen said:

I'm not attacking ED or anyone in this case. I'm just trying to understand what's the point of working on something like this to eventually want to put it in DCS? Just enough. I even secretly hope that ED will block this thing in case ... Maybe it's better for a team like Deka to use its design forces on e.g. MiG-27, MiG-25, Su-15, Su-17/22, Su-27 ... I think a lot more people would be happy with such FF modules.

Dekka has centred on Chinesse market no Russian / USSR. And build aircrafts by the available info....

If you like that modules, recomend build your 3rd party and get own info, but dont attack the develop process of 3rd party or ED module aproval. And that nothing todo do with WT or others programs.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Silver_Dragon

[Morri]

11 minutes ago, Nahen said:

Just enough. I even secretly hope that ED will block this thing in case

This isn't a thing on the table as given the fact it's announced means that ED is happy with what DIS has shown info wise so far.

I think we should give them some time and see what they have info wise. As far as we know the project was cancelled with 2 fighters built to some state of completion sent back to China, we don't know what happened to them or what was done to them after that. So lets see what they have gotten from 3 years worth of investigation.

[Exorcet]

14 minutes ago, Nahen said:

A simple question - why make aircraft modules that were only prototypes?

DCS is a sandbox, there isn't really a problem. Simulating the Vietnam War is as exciting as simulating a fictional war against China with J-8PP's fielded, isn't it? If you prefer one over the other you can also ignore the one you don't like.

14 minutes ago, Nahen said:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/Northrop_YF-23_DFRC.jpg
Probably this one too:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_YA-9#/media/File:Northrop_YA-9_prototype.jpg
Or maybe this one:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Lavochkin_La-250_Monino_2008.jpg

That they are prototypes doesn't really matter, what does is if they are documented in detail. If they are documented in detail, then they'd be fine for DCS.

14 minutes ago, Nahen said:

Maybe it's better for a team like Deka to use its design forces on e.g. MiG-27, MiG-25, Su-15, Su-17/22, Su-27 ... I think a lot more people would be happy with such FF modules.

Deka should be able to work on what they want, and who is even to say that the planes you list are possible? DCS has room for multiple developers, not everyone has to chase the most popular planes.

[Dragon1-1]

22 minutes ago, Nahen said:

A simple question - why make aircraft modules that were only prototypes?

Because nobody is going to put you into a labor camp over them? In case you don't know, there's a very real concept of exactly that happening to people who sniff around too closely around Russian and Chinese military hardware, especially anything remotely modern. 

Deka is a Chinese company and they make Chinese aircraft. It now appears that the selection of possible projects is severely curtailed by the Chinese government. I believe they made a decision they'd like a J-8, and it turned out that PP is the only viable choice. In fact, it's quite possible that the government won't allow any native Chinese avionics to be modeled, as stupid as it is. So, they could do old stuff contemporary with MiG-19 and early -21, basically old Russian export aircraft (which would certainly have its fans, but wouldn't sell nearly as well), or make the best of the bad situation. Information to make a functional J-8PP exists, and the aircraft uses well documented US avionics. I think that the aircraft they really wanted to do is the J-8F, and maybe it'll happen someday (hopefully for no additional charge), but reality is what it is.

1 hour ago, MK84 said:

Does this taxi like the MiG-21 or does it have steerable nosewheel?

If you look at the stick, it's got a MiG-21 style brake lever, so I guess it's still same old pneumatic system.

[NineLine]

1 hour ago, Nahen said:

DCS starting to turn towards World of Tanks? This plane was never built... In fact, there will be X-Wings soon... Only named Shenyang X-Wing to make it easier to push them...

Don't be silly, the choices here were don't make a J-8II or make one they could legally get info on. They chose the one that will bring us a cool aircraft to the sim. 

Besides I would love a full fidelity X-wing, but all information was lost in the archives located on Alderaan. 

Also please stay on topic. The topic being the J-8II. Thanks.

[Nahen]

We don't understand each other at all...
Digital Combat Simulation - something that is considered on the "game market" to be the most professional "aviation" simulator that gives a lot of machines mapped "quite realistically" to be called the most professional simulator of combat machines.

And starting from this point of view, I don't understand why not develop it based on at least three conventional eras full of great planes - for everyone - and without fiction, prototypes, inventions ...

World War II - dozens of planes to recreate - Soviet, American, British, German, Italian, Japanese...

The period from 1945 to the end of the "Cold War" - again dozens of mass-produced aircraft by several countries...

"Modern" times from 1991 to today... - ok, problems with documentation, etc., but probably not for everything.

And suddenly there are planes that no one has ever heard of, which were created in one or two copies and not finished and not fully tested ... JF-17 in the hyper S-F version. I bet that the documentation - especially regarding the flight of this invention will be as valuable as the "default" parameters of the YF-23 ... or La-250 ...

[yngvef]

I think it looks interesting. I would ofcourse love a more modernized version with chinese avionics just to see how it is, but that is probably not feasible at this time. And there may be many reasons for that.

Considering the level of fidelity required on DCS modules, the availability of non-classified information is crucial, and that means not everything is possible. In a dream world, I would love to see a J-10 in DCS for example, but I also realize that technical information is hard to come by, so I must simply accept it.

And that's why I like DCS: the modules attempt to be quite faithful to the subject matter. If I want an arcadey surface-level game with F-35s, J-20s and all kinds of bleeding edge tech, then that is not DCS. I am sure there are games that can provide this but it will come at the expense of realism. (or the complete lack of it)

Realism requires information, and on this type they have clearly found enough information to be able to move forwards with it. Ofcourse even DCS is still a video game and can never be truly 100% accurate, but at least it can come decently close.

People are obviously entitled to their opinions, but from my own personal experience I would recommend focusing your energy on the stuff you enjoy rather than bashing the things you don't.

If this isn't interesting to you, then that is perfectly fine. You want everyone to know? Okay, sure. But why though?

Someone hops into the forum for this plane and starts criticising Deka Ironworks for choosing this plane. What is the best case scenario you are expecting? That they drop their three years of research and progress because some random user on the forum don't have an interest in this particular type? Or do you want someone to comfort you?

I am nobody's boss, so you obviously don't need to listen to me, but my advice is to instead go to the forums of the planes you DO look forward to and share your hype instead of being toxic on the modules you DON'T care about. Just a thought. Like the things you like and ignore the things you dislike, and you'll probably be happier in the long run.

 

[NineLine]

3 minutes ago, Nahen said:

We don't understand each other at all...
Digital Combat Simulation - something that is considered on the "game market" to be the most professional "aviation" simulator that gives a lot of machines mapped "quite realistically" to be called the most professional simulator of combat machines.

And starting from this point of view, I don't understand why not develop it based on at least three conventional eras full of great planes - for everyone - and without fiction, prototypes, inventions ...

World War II - dozens of planes to recreate - Soviet, American, British, German, Italian, Japanese...

The period from 1945 to the end of the "Cold War" - again dozens of mass-produced aircraft by several countries...

"Modern" times from 1991 to today... - ok, problems with documentation, etc., but probably not for everything.

And suddenly there are planes that no one has ever heard of, which were created in one or two copies and not finished and not fully tested ... JF-17 in the hyper S-F version. I bet that the documentation - especially regarding the flight of this invention will be as valuable as the "default" parameters of the YF-23 ... or La-250 ...

Also, and I do not want to speak for Deka, but they want to do Chinese aviation. They are doing AI versions of other J-8 versions, and they felt the best info they could get for this one. As always purchase is optional. If its not your cup of tea then you have that choice, I for one think it will be an interesting version and allow for some cool wat if scenarios which honestly most DCS MP sessions are what if scenarios. 

[Tango3B]

Wow. This is the exact module we all waited for. Thx DEKA. It will be a winner...

As an edit: DEKA, you never let us down and never gave us any bs. The JF-17 was always and still is on spot (!) and this is why I will insta-buy any module that comes from your store. You guys are simply awesome, you rock!!!

Edited February 10, 2023 by Tango3B

[Billy]

J-8PP, fully functional, built and well documented aircraft is not okay??? But Razbam's frankenstein F-15E and HB Eurofighter trench 1.5 is fine??? Deka chose to be honest with their documentation and research. If they do it in Razbam's fashion they would just say it's a J-8II and answer somewhere in discord that it's the PP. And they are precisely modeling that one aircraft parking in Beijing Aviation Museum, unlike Razbam, who sews together avionics from 10 different variants and call it a FF module. If you don't like an aircraft it's ok, just don't buy it. 

[Baco]

DCS world started with a PROTOTYPE: KA 50 Black Shark? 8, or 9 built?  I rest my case...

 

If accurate, well developed and interesting I´ll buy it just to fly something different.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Baco

[Kenneth_Bishop]

As long as it has a accurate FM, I am happy to support it.

As who works in China, it is totally understandable that Deka tries to thrive in developing sensitive content, yet I have faith in Deka how they obtain the docs and infos needed for this project, you know what I mean.

But remenber this, any infomations outside the wall is considered "Falsehood" accroding to the CCP's statement, including Wikipedia of course.

 

[SuperEtendard]

9 hours ago, uboats said:

step by step

Hopefully the mid 80s J-8II that is no longer in service in that configuration is in the cards


 

[uboats]

On 2/10/2023 at 7:19 PM, SuperEtendard said:

Hopefully the mid 80s J-8II that is no longer in service in that configuration is in the cards


 

This is J-8B, and J-8PP is avionic MLU on J-8B, like how western upgraded mig23 and mig21

for 208a radar, not quite enough info available at this moment.

Edited February 12, 2023 by uboats

[FlankerFan35]

8 minutes ago, uboats said:

This is J-8B, and J-8PP is avionic MLG on J-8B, like how western upgraded mig23 and mig21

for 208a radar, not quite enough info available at this moment.

 

Do you think we'll ever see a PL-12 capable variant.

[uboats]

16 minutes ago, FlankerFan35 said:

Do you think we'll ever see a PL-12 capable variant.

ahhh, that's too dangerous

but j-8f ai can carry pl-12

Edited February 11, 2023 by uboats

[F-2]

14 minutes ago, uboats said:

ahhh, that's too dangerous

but j-8f ai can carry pl-12

 

Hey Uboats, are other AI aircraft previously announced for the asset pack still on the table? With the J-8F, J-10a, and J-15 it’s quite robust.

[uboats]

9 minutes ago, F-2 said:

Hey Uboats, are other AI aircraft previously announced for the asset pack still on the table? With the J-8F, J-10a, and J-15 it’s quite robust.

on hold at this moment, since we recently have many of our models converted to 3dsmax files and sold online.