I would give all the maps for free!

[Japo32]

Today I saw Normandy 1.5 and they are good enough to keep people connected with the pay people. The same way in old FSX we had the full world but just a runway with taxiways plus same standard buildings for the airports and cities, they could share with the ones that had the full payware scenary addon. That way we the community could fly together.

And I would start with the Normandy map. Free the 1.5 for everyone. The full details for the rest of people, and follow the steps to the rest of maps. If not as good as Normandy 1.5, just as Normandy 1.0 was for the free versions of Syria, Sinai, Persian Gulf, etc...

Edited April 21, 2023 by Japo32

[Mike_Romeo]

On 4/21/2023 at 7:35 PM, Japo32 said:

Today I saw Normandy 1.5 and they are good enough to keep people connected with the pay people. The same way in old FSX we had the full world but just a runway with taxiways plus same standard buildings for the airports and cities, they could share with the ones that had the full payware scenary addon. That way we the community could fly together.

And I would start with the Normandy map. Free the 1.5 for everyone. The full details for the rest of people, and follow the steps to the rest of maps. If not as good as Normandy 1.5, just as Normandy 1.0 was for the free versions of Syria, Sinai, Persian Gulf, etc...

 

Its not like that many of those maps where made by third party developers and they cant compensate the loose of maps with increased sells in aircraft modules or content modules like ED. Sure it would be nice to have everything for free but I dont think the developers and map creators want to sleep on the streets without knowing what or if they can eat today.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Mike_Romeo

[Japo32]

I write this as a 3D game developer I am. I know what is earn money to not live below a bridge to earn. You can loose earnings from people not buying your product because it is free, and it is good enough for them as it is. But the counterpart is that more people would come and the 10% of people that would buy a map of 1million people playing in a free environment, it is bigger than the 10% of 10000 of people in a only payware system. In fact there are lots of free to play games in the market that works very well. Cacasus and Marianas are free and the developers still eat everyday (I hope).

[Silver_Dragon]

1 hour ago, Japo32 said:

I write this as a 3D game developer I am. I know what is earn money to not live below a bridge to earn. You can loose earnings from people not buying your product because it is free, and it is good enough for them as it is. But the counterpart is that more people would come and the 10% of people that would buy a map of 1million people playing in a free environment, it is bigger than the 10% of 10000 of people in a only payware system. In fact there are lots of free to play games in the market that works very well. Cacasus and Marianas are free and the developers still eat everyday (I hope).

Who finance 3rd Party Ugra Media (Normandy 1.0, 2.0, Syria), Orbx (North Cap), RAZBAM (South Atlantic), OnReTech (Sinai), Check Six Simulations (North End Austraila) your future map products if get free?

ED (Caucasus, Marianas / Marianas WW2) has free, but (The Channel / Persian Gulf / Afganistan) has Payware.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Silver_Dragon

[Dragon1-1]

World map will likely be free, so that's actually coming, in a way. How good the details will be compared to dedicated maps, that remains to be seen. That said, world map will be strictly a modern one. Information that would be needed to make a WWII one, or even any pre-Google Maps one, simply does not exist, because there are massive areas of the world with little to no photographs showing how they looked like. So, a mid-2000s map is probably possible (and might be what we get), anything earlier will need separate maps.

[Rudel_chw]

16 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

World map will likely be free

 

really? have not seen any word from ED that could support such a statement 

[Dragon1-1]

It'll be a core feature, which AFAIK was stated at one point. If ED describes something as a core feature, it's typically free. I have seen no indication that this will be a separate module, much less a paid one. It wouldn't make sense, anyway, they way other sims do it is that they have world maps included, and you pay for detailed cities and airports. Also, it seems like this would be too big to simply separate out.

It might actually be paid for by the professional side of ED's business. I heard somewhere that some big outfit (USAF, maybe?) or maybe a group of them wants a whole world map in DCS, and that's why we're getting it. Not sure if that's true, though.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Dragon1-1

[Mr_sukebe]

?????

What game developer works with the intent of never getting paid?

[Japo32]

8 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

?????

What game developer works with the intent of never getting paid?

I have to be one of those stupids. I have made mods for free just to let the users know how my work is, and then if they want something more deep I charge for it.

[Japo32]

1 hour ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Who finance 3rd Party Ugra Media (Normandy 1.0, 2.0, Syria), Orbx (North Cap), RAZBAM (South Atlantic), OnReTech (Sinai), Check Six Simulations (North End Austraila) your future map products if get free?

ED (Caucasus, Marianas / Marianas WW2) has free, but (The Channel / Persian Gulf / Afganistan) has Payware.

 

the same way it is done in other civil simulators. The core game has a default low quality scenary. Then the third parties sell their addons. Seems they are good with that in those sims. ED could charge for a global world maybe, but I doubt it. The same way they gave us for free the new clouds, Marianas, or Caucasus. They sell planes or map areas. I don't see a problem at all to make good money with that method. As said, more people would come to play as there would be no break produced in the multiplayer community. An infantry game/sim made in czech republic (I think I cannot say games from other companies here), do that way, giving for free maps with blurry textures and low polys, and that allow us play with those that didn't buy those maps without breaking our community.

[Silver_Dragon]

34 minutes ago, Japo32 said:

the same way it is done in other civil simulators. The core game has a default low quality scenary. Then the third parties sell their addons. Seems they are good with that in those sims. ED could charge for a global world maybe, but I doubt it. The same way they gave us for free the new clouds, Marianas, or Caucasus. They sell planes or map areas. I don't see a problem at all to make good money with that method. As said, more people would come to play as there would be no break produced in the multiplayer community. An infantry game/sim made in czech republic (I think I cannot say games from other companies here), do that way, giving for free maps with blurry textures and low polys, and that allow us play with those that didn't buy those maps without breaking our community.

ED get very clear the core continue get free, as Multithreading initial release, and future Vulcan, DLSS, Dynamic Campaign, Spherical Earth Map, Weather, FLIR, ATC technology and more. 
 

The "low textures and low polys" will coming with the free Spherical Earth Map coming in a future, outside of more detailed maps actually payware / free by ED and 3rd parties.
 

Quote

Spherical Earth Map
2022 saw great progress creating the tools and technologies to support a precise spherical Earth map for DCS. Because this map will be based on current day, it will operate independently of the current and future regional maps that allow historic maps such as World War II, Korea, Vietnam, and other scenarios. Spherical Earth efforts will continue in 2023.

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Silver_Dragon

[BIGNEWY]

On 4/21/2023 at 6:35 PM, Japo32 said:

Today I saw Normandy 1.5 and they are good enough to keep people connected with the pay people. The same way in old FSX we had the full world but just a runway with taxiways plus same standard buildings for the airports and cities, they could share with the ones that had the full payware scenary addon. That way we the community could fly together.

And I would start with the Normandy map. Free the 1.5 for everyone. The full details for the rest of people, and follow the steps to the rest of maps. If not as good as Normandy 1.5, just as Normandy 1.0 was for the free versions of Syria, Sinai, Persian Gulf, etc...

 

High detail terrains require massive work to undertaken, giving them for free is not good business sense, devs need to be paid for their work. We have two free terrains already, and a third on the way ( Marianas WWII ). We have no plans to change our business model, we have been developing for well over a decade and want to continue to.

Please remember our rules here on the forum and discussion of other games / sims, we are not interested in what other sims or games are doing, we know what they are doing and it would not work for us. 

thank you 

[draconus]

12 hours ago, Japo32 said:

But the counterpart is that more people would come and the 10% of people that would buy a map of 1million people playing in a free environment, it is bigger than the 10% of 10000 of people in a only payware system.

Shouldn't we already have 1M people using free Caucasus and Marianas then?

[Japo32]

5 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

High detail terrains require massive work to undertaken, giving them for free is not good business sense, devs need to be paid for their work. We have two free terrains already, and a third on the way ( Marianas WWII ). We have no plans to change our business model, we have been developing for well over a decade and want to continue to.

Please remember our rules here on the forum and discussion of other games / sims, we are not interested in what other sims or games are doing, we know what they are doing and it would not work for us. 

thank you 

Maybe there was a misunderstood, but who said to give for free the high detail maps? I said the low detail ones as Normandy 1.5. Even I would give less detail for free in the Normandy 1.5, because there are assets with high detail in that 1.5 as mount st.Michel.

3 hours ago, draconus said:

Shouldn't we already have 1M people using free Caucasus and Marianas then?

How many people in percent play with the free maps compared with the payware ones. Here I can see the most played buyed map (Syria) is played by 2,857/11,183 (almost 87%)

how many players do play that do not have any buyed map? How many could enter and maintain DCS if Syria would have some kind of free version (low poly, low textures)? I know many player do not play DCS because "we" play in maps they do not have buyed, and they do not have the money to buy them. Of course they do not have now, but they could later, but if they are push away from the sim now, they won't be future buyers.

It is difficult to give reasons why what I am talking is right sense, if I cannot put other games examples that works. But those are the rules.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Japo32

[BIGNEWY]

8 minutes ago, Japo32 said:

Maybe there was a misunderstood, but who said to give for free the high detail maps? I said the low detail ones as Normandy 1.5. Even I would give less detail for free in the Normandy 1.5, because there are assets with high detail in that 1.5 as mount st.Michel.

As mentioned we have no plans to change our business model, Normandy 2.0 that replaced Normandy 1944 was a purchased product and those users have had a free update to Normandy 2.0, for the extended areas of detail the upgrade purchase is needed.  

thank you

 

[draconus]

14 minutes ago, Japo32 said:

How many people in percent play with the free maps compared with the payware ones. Here I can see the most played buyed map (Syria) is played by 2,857/11,183 (almost 87%) how many players do play that do not have any buyed map? How many could enter and maintain DCS if Syria would have some kind of free version (low poly, low textures)? I know many player do not play DCS because "we" play in maps they do not have buyed, and they do not have the money to buy them. Of course they do not have now, but they could later, but if they are push away from the sim now, they won't be future buyers.

You act like you know better than the devs themselves and they did consider it, I assure you. They have much experience in this niche genre. What you're talking about is huge business risk - players may or may not have money in the future. They can be also pushed away by the low quality map. Money comes back by selling - not by giving away for free.

Edited April 24, 2023 by draconus

[Japo32]

I cannot talk about what they do, because as you say, they know their business... BUT I can talk about selling addons (planes with more than 25 planes built) for a flight sim as I have been making for more than 10 years already successfully. So yes.. I understand a bit about the business and sometimes I have released things for free.

And yes.. it is clear to me @BIGNEWY that DCS won't change his business model. But this is a wish in a wishlist. Thanks.

By the way. This is not to have all the content for free for me. I own everything of DCS appart of the christian eagle, and I will continue supporting this incredible sim. The problem I see with new maps they are going to come, is that not so many are going to be playable for me in multiplayer with my friends. It toke almost 2 years from release for Syria to start playing with my friends with it.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Japo32

[BIGNEWY]

2 hours ago, Japo32 said:

I cannot talk about what they do, because as you say, they know their business... BUT I can talk about selling addons (planes with more than 25 planes built) for a flight sim as I have been making for more than 10 years already successfully. So yes.. I understand a bit about the business and sometimes I have released things for free.

And yes.. it is clear to me @BIGNEWY that DCS won't change his business model. But this is a wish in a wishlist. Thanks.

By the way. This is not to have all the content for free for me. I own everything of DCS appart of the christian eagle, and I will continue supporting this incredible sim. The problem I see with new maps they are going to come, is that not so many are going to be playable for me in multiplayer with my friends. It toke almost 2 years from release for Syria to start playing with my friends with it.

 

No problem and thank you for the feedback. 

I can not speak for you or your friends, but the data we have show Syria (as an example) was very popular in our MP servers since the launch. 
I was certainly playing it with my friends and still do, but each to their own and we hope you are having fun now. 

best regards

Bignewy

[Art-J]

There are some holes in that logic. Keep in mind 1.5 is not the older product, which is way past its peak sales numbers so could still be given away and used as a free promo tool to bump up sales of newer products. The "1.5" is actually the scratch-built 2.0 map, only with low building LODs permanently enabled (I think?) for these who haven't purchased the 2.0 license. It's physically the same product installed on everyone's computer, not a separate, older map. So it's all 100% "new" money that Ugra had to invest into the project last year and they have to collect the return of investment now - they can't afford giving away half of it.

Which brings us to the second point. ED can afford giving away two maps for free, because majority of their income comes from other product line (planes and helicopters). For Ugra, however, this map and Syria are the only sources of DCS income (yes, I know they also produce things for Il-2 GB, but here it's irrelevant), so they just don't have much content "to spare", especially when giving it away would only bring small part of new customer's money back (new customers still invest more into airplanes and helicopters and less into maps -> more money goes to ED, not Ugra).