TrackIR 5 - Important observation

[Hiob]

This whole „keep it a little bit below your monitors max fps“ is so often repeated, but still I can‘t see a benefit. I always set it to round numbers - 120 in my case - exactly like my monitor is capable of (same monitor/tv as above I think). I‘m yet to notice any problems…..

[silverdevil]

1 hour ago, Hiob said:

120 in my case

this is my number and has been since probably birth of this computer in 2021

[SharpeXB]

4 hours ago, Hiob said:

This whole „keep it a little bit below your monitors max fps“ is so often repeated, but still I can‘t see a benefit. I always set it to round numbers - 120 in my case - exactly like my monitor is capable of (same monitor/tv as above I think). I‘m yet to notice any problems…..

I’m using a 120Hz monitor and if I set the frame limit to 120 I see some tearing. Your actual FPS in the game would have to go over 120 for this to happen. 

[Hiob]

18 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

I’m using a 120Hz monitor and if I set the frame limit to 120 I see some tearing. Your actual FPS in the game would have to go over 120 for this to happen. 

Yes, that‘s why I use a fps limiter. Works like charm.

[SharpeXB]

21 minutes ago, Hiob said:

Yes, that‘s why I use a fps limiter. Works like charm.

I’m sure results might vary depending on the hardware etc. 

[Hiob]

59 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

I’m sure results might vary depending on the hardware etc. 

Of course, yet still I wonder what exactly the reasoning or the theory of how exactly it is meant to work is. 

I mean if overshooting the set fps limit would be a thing (it isn‘t from my experience - at least with Afterburner the fps are nailed unless it can’t reach the set limit) - then ok, but how does lowering the limit by 2 fps help then? 

I‘m using almost exactly the same Hardware like you btw. a 4090 with an LG Oled and OG TrackIR.

I mean, everybody do as he or she likes of course and I don’t wanna start a fight about it, but personally I think it‘s a placebo. 

[MAXsenna]

Of course, yet still I wonder what exactly the reasoning or the theory of how exactly it is meant to work is. 
I mean if overshooting the set fps limit would be a thing (it isn‘t from my experience - at least with Afterburner the fps are nailed unless it can’t reach the set limit) - then ok, but how does lowering the limit by 2 fps help then? 
I‘m using almost exactly the same Hardware like you btw. a 4090 with an LG Oled and OG TrackIR.
I mean, everybody do as he or she likes of course and I don’t wanna start a fight about it, but personally I think it‘s a placebo. 

Maybe because some xxHz screens actually are little less than they claim? Who know? My 10+ year 30" HP something is reported as 59 or 57 something, and I do see tearing above 60 FPS, while for some reason never happened in other games that achieved more than a hundred. Mind you it cost USD 1000+ sans VAT. So it was supposed to be great screen. The liars. Even has burn ins from ABRIS and SHKVAL on one of them.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[SharpeXB]

41 minutes ago, Hiob said:

Of course, yet still I wonder what exactly the reasoning or the theory of how exactly it is meant to work is. 

I mean if overshooting the set fps limit would be a thing (it isn‘t from my experience - at least with Afterburner the fps are nailed unless it can’t reach the set limit) - then ok, but how does lowering the limit by 2 fps help then? 

I‘m using almost exactly the same Hardware like you btw. a 4090 with an LG Oled and OG TrackIR.

I mean, everybody do as he or she likes of course and I don’t wanna start a fight about it, but personally I think it‘s a placebo. 

It seems if you’re right at the limit it’s possible to go over it a tiny bit and see the tear. In DCS I didn’t see it as a typical frame split split but sort of a wrinkle effect. But it was still an artifact. 

[Hiob]

21 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Maybe because some xxHz screens actually are little less than they claim? Who know? My 10+ year 30" HP something is reported as 59 or 57 something, and I do see tearing above 60 FPS, while for some reason never happened in other games that achieved more than a hundred. Mind you it cost USD 1000+ sans VAT. So it was supposed to be great screen. The liars. Even has burn ins from ABRIS and SHKVAL on one of them.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Ok, the display not actually reaching its claimed refresh rate would explain it in a way. But I don’t think that’s a wide spread problem.

Poor implementation of fps limiters on the other hand, that would be something I could get behind. Anecdotally I would recommend Afterburner. It seem to be very reliable and (from my limited testing ) seem to give the smoothest frame times…. and I would definitely stay away from using the in-game limiter. 

Well as I said, I don’t wanna fight about it. The most important thing is, that everybody is happy with how it works for them.

 

[MAXsenna]

Ok, the display not actually reaching its claimed refresh rate would explain it in a way. But I don’t think that’s a wide spread problem.
Poor implementation of fps limiters on the other hand, that would be something I could get behind. Anecdotally I would recommend Afterburner. It seem to be very reliable and (from my limited testing ) seem to give the smoothest frame times…. and I would definitely stay away from using the in-game limiter. 
Well as I said, I don’t wanna fight about it. The most important thing is, that everybody is happy with how it works for them.
 

I agree! Didn't think of AB. Thanks, I'll try it.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[draconus]

Guys, please, screen tearing comes only from no synchronisation between the monitor refresh rate and display data being fed which means displaying one frame and starting with the next one before the refreshing time ends. It doesn't matter how much fps you have currently, how much fps can monitor handle, how much fps your card can pushes or if they have set refresh rate matching the fps limit or not. Only way to stop tearing is to have vsynch, freesynch or gsynch like tech ON.

Remember that fps means frames per second - and a lot does happen in that 1 second. Most monitors are refreshing at constant rate (unless you have variable refresh rate one) while the card sends the frames as fast as possible (unless the software tells otherwise).

[MAXsenna]

Guys, please, screen tearing comes only from no synchronisation between the monitor refresh rate and display data being fed which means displaying one frame and starting with the next one before the refreshing time ends. It doesn't matter how much fps you have currently, how much fps can monitor handle, how much fps your card can pushes or if they have set refresh rate matching the fps limit or not. Only way to stop tearing is to have vsynch, freesynch or gsynch like tech ON.
Remember that fps means frames per second - and a lot does happen in that 1 second. Most monitors are refreshing at constant rate (unless you have variable refresh rate one) while the card sends the frames as fast as possible (unless the software tells otherwise).

Yup, guess the screen is too old. Didn't have this issue with my older, now retired after 2.9 GPU, but have tearing with the replacement, without Vsync on. I did test with FPS capping <60> Didn't make a difference.

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[draconus]

13 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

...have tearing with the replacement, without Vsync on. I did test with FPS capping <60> Didn't make a difference.

Yes, that's how it works. Only vsynch can get rid of tearing.

[Scott-S6]

Just tried locking to 60 and 70 fps. Each was tested with gsync, screen set to 60hz and screen set to 144hz.

Saw no difference in head tracking.

Trackir 5 (real one, not a Chinese clone) with trackclip pro.

[silverdevil]

i have a gsync enabled 120 refresh monitor with my max frame rate at 120 Hz. maybe my eyes are old and cannot notice it, but i am not seeing tearing or stuttering.

[draconus]

2 hours ago, silverdevil said:

i am not seeing tearing

That's what gsynch is for.

[LucShep]

You can also try Scanline Sync (aka S-Sync), as alternative method. Just follow the linked tutorial.

It's pretty much using V-Sync OFF without the screen tearing. 
You can also use "Fast Sync" (instead of "Force OFF") in conjunction to it - works even better that way in DCS, in my experience.
Also works fine with head-tracking.

Matter of preferences but, at least with 60Hz refresh-rate, I prefer it to GSync or FreeSync.
It's really smooth, and as close as it gets to V-Sync ON without its performance and latency penalties.

The major downside of Scanline Sync is that you really need to ensure the GPU does not work at over 90% of usage, otherwise it gets very choppy real fast.



EDIT - added video about someone disserting about it:

Edited March 6 by LucShep

[SharpeXB]

I always found Fast Vsync to work very well in DCS when I was using a 60Hz non G-Sync screen. 

[MadKreator]

Only disadvantage I’ve found of Fast Vsync is, in some cases it will make exported viewports flicker. I run V-sync on all the time, not necessarily in fast mode. I find it does a better job with tearing than gsync…. However I am capping dcs to 60fps on a 120hz monitor, running dcs in not-fullscreen mode( not sure if its technically “windowed” mode or not)  and also using a 60hz  touchscreen for helios. Gsync by itself never seemed to get rid of tearing on my setup. But V-sync 100% does….. BTW @SharpeXB, I’m absolutely LOVING the 48” Ultragear! So happy I made the switch

[SharpeXB]

5 minutes ago, MadKreator said:

Only disadvantage I’ve found of Fast Vsync is, in some cases it will make exported viewports flicker. I run V-sync on all the time, not necessarily in fast mode. I find it does a better job with tearing than gsync…. However I am capping dcs to 60fps on a 120hz monitor, running dcs in not-fullscreen mode( not sure if its technically “windowed” mode or not)  and also using a 60hz  touchscreen for helios. Gsync by itself never seemed to get rid of tearing on my setup. But V-sync 100% does….. BTW @SharpeXB, I’m absolutely LOVING the 48” Ultragear! So happy I made the switch

Oh yeah that monitor is awesome. Try capping your frame rate at 118 just below the monitor’s 120. Then turn any Vsync off. That seems to work really well. I only used fast Vsync before without a G-Sync screen. 
When I tried capping my frames at 120 with this monitor I still got some ripples. 

[MadKreator]

Just now, SharpeXB said:

Oh yeah that monitor is awesome. Try capping your frame rate at 118 just below the monitor’s 120. Then turn any Vsync off. That seems to work really well. I only used fast Vsync before without a G-Sync screen. 
When I tried capping my frames at 120 with this monitor I still got some ripples. 

I will try it for fun. I actually keep dcs capped at 60fps normally just because the exported gauges in helios move the smoothest. It seems to be its happy place. My setup with the 4080  can do 120 with maxed settings in free flight,   but once other flights start coming in, or in a mission, it sits in a really odd range around 109fps. I suppose I could back off some graphic settings but the OLED looks soooooooo good, I just don’t want to lose the eye candy

[Jimmytime]

Thank you all and thank you MIghtymoo. Just wanted to confirm that this made a big difference for me. I've been running 4K for a while, upgraded to 4000 RTX series and a new MB and CPU and still noticed stuttering even though I was getting obscene framerates since 2.9 and multi-threading. Setting max FPS and background FPS to 120 made it very smooth. I might finally be satisfied and may never buy a new CPU or GPU again for DCS. I've been chasing this for 15 years.

*Edit
I did notice a single line sort of 'tearing' the screen and had to set Vsync to get rid of it. Odd since it's a Gsync monitor.

Edited March 25 by Jimmytime