SA-342 Gazelle 2023 "FM" Update

[MAXsenna]

Chiming in to say I've just come on the forums to find some info about this - FFB trim is totally not working right now, either with the trimmer button or a hat. Basically it offsets the zero position of the stick, but then applies that offset to the current position. So as soon as you press the trimmer or use the hat, your stick position is doubled.

You can see this if you turn on the controls window, move the cyclic left, then apply left trim. The cyclic position moves with it.
I think for 'FFB trim mode', the current position of the stick needs to be read as an absolute value, not a relative value from the 'center'. Trimmer stores the '0' position that can then be used to calculate actual deflection. Or something like that!
Happy to try and produce a video or something/test anything that needs testing, if that's helpful.

No need to. It's already been reported and acknowledged on the first day. A fix is coming.
Turn off the secondary FFB settings in the special menu, turn off the magnetic brake, and it's quite enjoyable to fly.

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Jaguar 1-1 - Ant]

On 7/9/2023 at 4:14 PM, Kazputin said:

Chiming in to say I've just come on the forums to find some info about this - FFB trim is totally not working right now, either with the trimmer button or a hat. Basically it offsets the zero position of the stick, but then applies that offset to the current position. So as soon as you press the trimmer or use the hat, your stick position is doubled.

You can see this if you turn on the controls window, move the cyclic left, then apply left trim. The cyclic position moves with it.

I think for 'FFB trim mode', the current position of the stick needs to be read as an absolute value, not a relative value from the 'center'. Trimmer stores the '0' position that can then be used to calculate actual deflection. Or something like that!

Happy to try and produce a video or something/test anything that needs testing, if that's helpful.

Interestingly this is how the trim centering works on the Mi-8MTV for me since forever, it's really annoying

[RealDCSpilot]

17 hours ago, Jaguar 1-1 - Ant said:

Interestingly this is how the trim centering works on the Mi-8MTV for me since forever, it's really annoying

With FFB stick for trimming and DCS helicopters, don't use curves on stick axis. Keep them 100% linear. The current bug on the Gazelle is something different, it kinda multiplies the axis offset everytime.

[Devrim]

On 6/9/2023 at 12:24 PM, Semaphore said:

Got the Gazelle.... question about the tablet.  Where is the aircraft icon on it as i don't have one on mine?

EN mod has been fixed and updated. 

[MAXsenna]

Interestingly this is how the trim centering works on the Mi-8MTV for me since forever, it's really annoying

Nope. This ain't what we're discussing. FFB trimming in the Gazelle is completely off, acknowledged by the devs and a fix is coming, hopefully next patch.
The Hip never had that issue.
Whether you use the instant or the center position trimming in any helo, the trim position will not reflect the physical position of your joystick. That's kind of the point. So the recommendation for a self centering stick will always be: Press the trim button, when you intend to move the stick. Or the trim position pluss the movement of your stick will be added. (Adament in the Ka-50 sort of).
Anyway, IF you have the option to remove the springs from your stick, or add rubberbands and what not like RC dampers to it, so it's not self centering. I'm sure your enjoyment of helos in DCS will rise above your expectations!

(Sans a REAL FFB stick that is)

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Jaguar 1-1 - Ant]

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

Nope. This ain't what we're discussing. FFB trimming in the Gazelle is completely off, acknowledged by the devs and a fix is coming, hopefully next patch.
The Hip never had that issue.
Whether you use the instant or the center position trimming in any helo, the trim position will not reflect the physical position of your joystick. That's kind of the point. So the recommendation for a self centering stick will always be: Press the trim button, when you intend to move the stick. Or the trim position pluss the movement of your stick will be added. (Adament in the Ka-50 sort of).
Anyway, IF you have the option to remove the springs from your stick, or add rubberbands and what not like RC dampers to it, so it's not self centering. I'm sure your enjoyment of helos in DCS will rise above your expectations!

(Sans a REAL FFB stick that is)

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

Ahh this makes sense actually, yeah

[MAXsenna]

Ahh this makes sense actually, yeah

To be honest I had no clue what and why trimming was "more" important/different in helicopters compared to airplanes.
The Ka-50 tought me well, so to speak.
So I got myself an old second hand Microsoft Sidewinder FFB2 with no regrets, and it really dawned on me. Now I have five.
So yeah. Because you don't need that many buttons on the grip in the Hip, get yourself any cheap joystick you can mod/play around with so it's both not self centering anymore, and that it stays by itself in any position. Unless you can get an FFB stick of course. You'll never regret it, and you'll be an "ace" in helicopters in no time!

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Sindar]

My Sa342-L is missing the aiming mark for the Mistral. All other armament works fine. What's the cause?

[Ramsay]

1 hour ago, Sindar said:

What's the cause?

A bug which is already fixed and submitted to ED for the next Open Beta patch (date unknown and details subject to change).
https://discord.com/channels/303482672834019330/671347367030685697/1128695695780630561

Edited July 13, 2023 by Ramsay

[RealDCSpilot]

Pretty good amount of fixes with the latest update!

[MAXsenna]

Pretty good amount of fixes with the latest update!

Agree! Had the time to update, but not test yet. Alas.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Shadok]

The fix concerning the FFb trim is welcome.

Concerning the slingloading option, it can be good to have the call for charge in the F6 comm menu, like others helos.

[Althar93]

Wow, the Gazelle feels so much lighter/twitchier ; I bought the module the other week when the fuel mass bug was present & it definitely felt very heavy. This is a night and day difference.

I can now do a vertical take off with 90% fuel and 4 mistrals, whereas previously it was struggling to get past 5 ft running empty.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Althar93

[karasinicoff]

Thanks Polychop!!

The new update brings Gazelle alive finally!! the engine power is much better than before.

It is now able to run in the battle field.

I was very disappinted the new FM earlier but noticed how hard to make new 3D module correctly.

My apology! will support Polychop as a big fan and will buy Kaiowa when it comes.

Thanks again!! Love it

Edited July 25, 2023 by karasinicoff

[Iron Sights]

Alright, I’ll have to check it out. I purchased when the FM changes happened and it felt like it was too restricted by weight. So I waited to start training.

[Ian Boys UK]

OK this is MUCH better now

[jef32]

Hi !

The changelog speaks about an auto-hover improved but for me it's always the same, I can't have a stationnary flight for using the joystick to design the target, like I was doing before.

And I must press rudder all of the time.

What I'm doing wrong in the settings to not have the gazelle keeping a good stationnary flight, when I'm switch at the weapon officer place ?

[RealDCSpilot]

@jef32 Simply adapt to the situation, there is no reliable auto-hover functionality at the moment. Switch to hit-and-run tactics like in the Mi-24. Fly towards the target area in the co-pilot seat, pick a target with the Viviane or periscope, keep measuring the distance with the laser. If you reach 4300 meters fire the HOT3 and slowly break away while keeping the sight ground locked on target until the missile hits. Then dive and get out of the danger zone, rinse and repeat. The benefit is that you are no stationary target anymore, AAA and tanks with sniper missiles will have a much harder time to hit you.

[karasinicoff]

While I am flying over 150km/h.. it should be neutralised most of torque and go mostly straight but she keeps rolling to right side hard and nose up.

Very strange behavior for cruising even without auto pilot. Please look at it. Thanks.

[Mr_sukebe]

2 hours ago, karasinicoff said:

While I am flying over 150km/h.. it should be neutralised most of torque and go mostly straight but she keeps rolling to right side hard and nose up.

Very strange behavior for cruising even without auto pilot. Please look at it. Thanks.

Fine here and I was out in the Gazelle last night.

Couple of thoughts to check:

• Ensure that you've no duplicated axis controls
• Checkout the new trim button.  Works just like it does in the Huey now, i.e. very well

[Kazputin]

Looking forward to trying her out tonight with the new FFB trim, thanks devs!

[Devrim]

Hey...

I haven't tried the latest updates but I wanted to talk about the FM just received the previous update.

Man! As a friend's say, it's night and day. Now we're talking about a flight model.

She has character now. Now, you can feel you're flying a helicopter. Yes, she is still twitchy but modifications on the axis values works very well now, and the Gazelle responds how she should.

I love it, really love it, and now it's so fun to fly everyday.

Thank you Polychop!

[jef32]

9 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

@jef32 Simply adapt to the situation, there is no reliable auto-hover functionality at the moment. Switch to hit-and-run tactics like in the Mi-24. Fly towards the target area in the co-pilot seat, pick a target with the Viviane or periscope, keep measuring the distance with the laser. If you reach 4300 meters fire the HOT3 and slowly break away while keeping the sight ground locked on target until the missile hits. Then dive and get out of the danger zone, rinse and repeat. The benefit is that you are no stationary target anymore, AAA and tanks with sniper missiles will have a much harder time to hit you.

Hi

Thanks for your answer. As I'd previously said somewhere, the real gazelle needs 2 persons for its crew. A pilot and a weapon operator. Us, in no multiplayer mode, we are alone in the virtual cockpit of the Gazelle and the choice of auto-hover to take the weapon officer's seat is a good idea to hide the helicopter behind something to be safe from enemy fire and just lifting to fire the Hot missiles. For now, even if Polychop has highly improved the realism of the Gazelle, and it's a very good thing, they didn't fix the auto-hover functionality like it was before and for me, for now, the Gazelle stays in the hangar because I'm not able to use it in fight like before. We don't know when Polychop will decide to fix this issue and it makes me very angry.

[MAXsenna]

Hi
Thanks for your answer. As I'd previously said somewhere, the real gazelle needs 2 persons for its crew. A pilot and a weapon operator. Us, in no multiplayer mode, we are alone in the virtual cockpit of the Gazelle and the choice of auto-hover to take the weapon officer's seat is a good idea to hide the helicopter behind something to be safe from enemy fire and just lifting to fire the Hot missiles. For now, even if Polychop has highly improved the realism of the Gazelle, and it's a very good thing, they didn't fix the auto-hover functionality like it was before and for me, for now, the Gazelle stays in the hangar because I'm not able to use it in fight like before. We don't know when Polychop will decide to fix this issue and it makes me very angry.

I agree with @RealDCSpilot that it's perfectly fine to fly around in the left seat and shoot. Hell, your survivability may rise. And to be honest, it's not even that hard to hover and shoot at the same time if you practice a little. Will make you a super pilot!
But, I do agree with you, that this is not intended in the real world, so fortunately PC will fix the auto hover, and everyone will be happy, no matter how you want to use it.

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[Kazputin]

5 hours ago, Kazputin said:

Looking forward to trying her out tonight with the new FFB trim, thanks devs!

Just logged in to try this out - sad to say FFB trim is still broken.

I've tried with cyclic trim set to 'instant' and 'none': none doesn't set position at all (so stick just stays imitating a spring-centered stick), and 'instant' is the same as my previous post:

I get in a nice hover, I hit the trim button as I would in the Huey, and can see the controls indicator immediately set my trim position and at the same time offset the current stick position from that new trim position, effectively doubling my input in both axes. This immediately knocks me out of the stable hover. As I said before: the trim position in 'force feedback' mode should NOT affect the actual cyclic input position. It just tells the stick to center in that new place. No calculation of relative position is required...

Maybe I'm missing some settings somewhere, but certainly for me force feedback trim is NOT working, despite it saying 'fixed' in the patch notes... 

Disappointed!

I will shortly have a second FFB stick available, so if I need to ship my current one to a dev for testing, please contact me... would love to get this fixed as the helicopter is otherwise great fun to fly...

FOUND IT! I had to check the 'module specific force feedback' option in special settings. With that, instant trim, and gain curves set to zero - trim working as intended!! Woohoo!

Edited July 25, 2023 by Kazputin