SA-342 Gazelle 2023 "FM" Update

[Ramsay]

1 hour ago, Moxica said:

She's acting like I have spikey pedals. It even has spikes when not moving pedals.

Perhaps you have, a video, track or at least screen shot of your input curves might help diagnose why you are having issues.

1 hour ago, Moxica said:

Also "negative spikes" as in no effect to some pedal inputs.
This is a pretty serious flaw, and should get a priority quick fix.

LTE (loss of tail rotor effectiveness) is a real thing, where the tail rotor has insufficient authority to compensate for large amounts of torque, crosswind, etc.

Again a video/screen shot of your settings, curves and control inputs (RCtrl+Enter) would help us, help you.

Note there is a known bug ATM - if you spawn with a full fuel load - reducing the fuel load (via the rearm/refuel dialog) does NOT reduce the aircrafts simulated weight.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Ramsay

[Moxica]

11 minutes ago, Ramsay said:

Perhaps you have, a video, track or at least screen shot of your input curves might help diagnose why you are having issues.

 

If this implicates it only affects me, that would be good news.
New pedals should fix that.
My pedal curves are on the default, linear setting. I just see this in the Gazelle, and I saw descriptions that I interpreted as similar behaviour with other users as well.
So I assume it is a characteristic of the new FM, and need some first aid asap.
"Mediiic! I need a medic over here!" 

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Moxica

[Hiob]

27 minutes ago, Moxica said:

I can't imagine me getting used to those sudden and powerful "spikes" out of nowhere.
Especially when she start spinning, and the pedal inputs don't do anything.

I don't really get what you mean by "sudden spikes". She is very sensitive to pedal input, but other than that I don't experience such behavior. I mean, I can bring her in flight edge envelopes where e.g. you loose tail rotor authority/effectiveness (extrem brake hooks e.g.), but that is on me - not the FM. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Hiob

[Ramsay]

18 minutes ago, Moxica said:

If this implicates it only affects me, that would be good news.

The "L" is lighter than the "M", so I would start off testing that version (I've tested that on the 4YA Syria server near sea level).

Unfortunately (fortunate for me) - most of my SA-342L test flights have been in single player where I've already set a 66% (350 litre) fuel load in the mission  editor.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Ramsay

[Moxica]

12 minutes ago, Hiob said:

I don't really get what you mean by "sudden spikes". She is very sensitive to pedal input, but other than that I don't experience such behavior. I mean, I can bring her in flight edge envelopes where e.g. you loose tail rotor authority (extrem brake hooks e.g.), but that is on me - not the FM. 

Sudden spikes = jerky changes of position/orientation. Sometimes during (slow) corrections, in transitions, and sometimes when in manual hover.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Moxica

[Hiob]

Just now, Moxica said:

Sudden spikes = jerky changes of position/orientation. Sometimes during (slow) corrections, sometimes when in manual hover.

No, sorry. Never experienced such behavior. Are you monitoring the Control Indicator Overlay whilst such things occur? Are there "jumps" in your virtual controls?

Perhaps it's indeed a jittering input axis on your hardware?

[Moxica]

17 minutes ago, Hiob said:

No, sorry. Never experienced such behavior. Are you monitoring the Control Indicator Overlay whilst such things occur? Are there "jumps" in your virtual controls?

Perhaps it's indeed a jittering input axis on your hardware?

If these come from my old CH pedals, I'm in a good place. (I am almost certain I've got new Thrustmaster Pendular Rudders coming my way for birthday)
But I do not experience this in other modules. But then again, the Gaz is the most agile/touchy one. I whish..

Edited June 16, 2023 by Moxica

[Moxica]

Sorry, guys, and thanks for your inputs.
But I'm at work, and can not test. But I just remembered the following situation:
I'm in a stable, manual fully trimmed hover.
If I activate the CSV autohover, I get a hefty change in attitude, but it mostly stabilize itself with a little help from pedals.
Then I activate the ALV heading align , and now it start spinning like crazy.
As if cancelling the trim.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Moxica

[Hiob]

8 minutes ago, Moxica said:

Sorry, guys, and thanks for your inputs.
But I'm at work, and can not test. But I just remembered the following situation:
I'm in a stable, manual fully trimmed hover.
If I activate the CSV autohover, I get a hefty change in attitude, but it mostly stabilize itself with a little help from pedals.
Then I activate the ALV heading align , and now it start spinning like crazy.
As if cancelling the trim.

 

Ok, maybe then the problem is closer related to the auto-hover/ap functions than to the yaw-axis itself. Best you see and test again when you're back in the cockpit. 

[Moxica]

Again, sorry for spamming, but I haven't found any documentation on the updated model, and now I have the found correct terms to fit the holes in my knowledge. 
Does the (ALV) "heading align" work? And what does it do?
I can not figure out what it actually does at the moment. Because it does something but I can't make sense of it.
(I did use it with success on the former issue)
 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Moxica

[leonsilver]

1 hour ago, Moxica said:

Ha ezek a régi CH pedáljaimból származnak, akkor jó helyen vagyok. (Majdnem biztos vagyok benne, hogy születésnapomra új Thrustmaster Pendular Rudders kaptam)
De más moduloknál ezt nem tapasztalom. De ismét a Gaz a legfürgébb/érintősebb. kívánom..

 

It's not because of the pedal, that's for sure. I have an MFG Crosswind pedal and I am also experiencing the problem you mentioned.

[Moxica]

Nevermind, gentlemen. I got it now. 
All I needed was this little discussion to bring my head around it.
It did not work for me the first time I tried, and I just haven't relied on/trusted it since.
Now that I control the new FM better, I tried again, and:
Bring it as close to a hover as you can. Trim.
Activate CSV autohover
Trim to stabilize more.
Find target in with camera and lase for measure.
Activate  (ALV) "heading align"  (The Gaz now aligns with target)
Fire
-Its beautiful! 

 

1 hour ago, leonsilver said:

It's not because of the pedal, that's for sure. I have an MFG Crosswind pedal and I am also experiencing the problem you mentioned.

Yes. There are some erhm.. "anomalies" But they can be overcome.
The reason for my earlier spins, was aligning with camera that pointed backwards.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Moxica

[leonsilver]

On 6/16/2023 at 3:51 PM, Moxica said:

Nevermind, gentlemen. I got it now.
All I needed was this little discussion to bring my head around it.
It did not work for me the first time I tried, and I just haven't relied on/trusted it since.
Now that I control the new FM better, I tried again, and:
Bring it as close to a hover as you can. Trim.
Activate CSV autohover
Trim to stabilize more.
Find target in with camera and lase for measure.
Activate  (ALV) "heading align"  (The Gaz now aligns with target)
Fire
-Its beautiful!

 

Yes. There are some erhm.. "anomalies" But they can be overcome.
The reason for my earlier spins, was aligning with camera that pointed backwards.

 

I don't use autohover.
Trim, I move to the left seat and HOT3 can go.

I loved the old Gazella too, but this new one is much better! And many things are even WIP!

Edited June 18, 2023 by leonsilver

[iantron]

Any word on updated documentation? I honestly haven't looked in the install folder yet, but a Google search turned up nothing.

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

Auto hover is WIP and affects auto slave. The aircraft can spin continuously at times esp when auto slaving to a target left of cam center. 

Edited June 18, 2023 by GrEaSeLiTeNiN

[Moxica]

19 hours ago, GrEaSeLiTeNiN said:

Auto hover is WIP and affects auto slave. The aircraft can spin continuously at times esp when auto slaving to a target left of cam center. 

 

The spin often comes from a change in collective. Certain points/posistions triggers jerky torque effect. As if rotors "jump" into a much higher alpha.
-With the fact that there is no lift on the first 50-55% of the collective when on ground, that point might be around there.
And the Auto hover light remain on wether it has authority or not. I suspect it should go dark when inactive.
And as you said; auto slave can only adjust track to the right.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Moxica

[grim_reaper68]

That's to know for the ALV. I will try it soon. 

[dsc106]

Apologies if someone has already brought this up. Is polychop monitoring thread?

we could really use additional keybind options, as one of many examples I can’t even set master arm to On and Off separately for use with HOTAS Toggle switches. Only toggle. Without listing everything, I think this is self explanatory compared to many other modules numerous options.

[MAXsenna]

Apologies if someone has already brought this up. Is polychop monitoring thread?
we could really use additional keybind options, as one of many examples I can’t even set master arm to On and Off separately for use with HOTAS Toggle switches. Only toggle. Without listing everything, I think this is self explanatory compared to many other modules numerous options.

Yes PC have been active here after the latest patch.
Thank you PC team!

Have you tried Quaggles' injector and Munkwolf's extra keybinds repository?
(It's si good that Heatblur included everything in the latest patch for the F-14).
If you're not familiar with this, I'll find the links for you.

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[YSIAD_RIP]

3 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Have you tried Quaggles' injector and Munkwolf's extra keybinds repository?
(It's si good that Heatblur included everything in the latest patch for the F-14).
 

@MAXsenna You are so right! I 100% agree and recommend Quaggles Injector Mod: 

It is the First and sometimes only MOD I use in DCS depending on what I am playing with.   

• Here is a LINK to the Quaggles - DCS Input Injector Mod within this DCS forum.  
• Munks Community Keybinds Project

Also looks like Munkwolf's extra keybinds are already included in the Quaggles Zip repository

[Chalksta]

hi all,

i have a thrust master warhog for controls with the spring still in the joystick can anyone recommend any settings? the aircraft seems to move sharply with control inputs and rolls over to the right and crashes......the other flight model was easier to fly.

when i flew the other flight model i did have "force feedback" unchecked.

any help would be apreciated thanks

Edited June 20, 2023 by Chalksta
addded more text

[Hiob]

6 minutes ago, Chalksta said:

hi all,

i have a thrust master warhog for controls with the spring still in the joystick can anyone recommend any settings? the aircraft seems to move sharply with control inputs and rolls over to the right and crashes......the other flight model was easier to fly.

when i flew the other flight model i did have "force feedback" unchecked.

any help would be apreciated thanks

 

Do you mean at teke off? You need to apply a bit left-aft cyclic, before pulling collective to avoid that. Also make sure, the AP channels are on when you did a cold start.
Regarding your Stick setup, I would reduce the Y-saturation and dial in a slight curve to the pitch and roll axis.

[Chalksta]

cheers thx man ill give it a crack

[Hiob]

This is where the controls need to be roughly when applying collective for take off:

[grim_reaper68]

Personnally with that setup mine still roll violently to the right. I need to put the stick between 1/4 and the half to the left to make a smooth hovering takeoff.