correct as-is F16 - laserguided bomb not dropping

[Nephris]

Hi folks,

I am working through my F-16 by Youtoube University, but since I restarted after 1 year absence I cand drop LGBU anymore, and hope you can help me here. I am using Paveway II GBU 10 for testing here.

I added a track to attachment, of a short bomb run.

I press /keep holding the "weapon release" as soon as the pipper starts moving down and release it when the circle is flashing.

The track was created from air start.

Maybe some of you can have a watch and can explain me ,what I am missing here.

 

30 secs before drop

 

drop/release

 

Thanx a lot for any ideas.

 

edit:

• my weapon release button is working/reactin in the control settings of the game.
• Master Arm is on
• checked the Paveway III and the release happens as intended

 

 

lgbu.trk

Edited June 6, 2023 by Nephris

[twistking]

jugding by your your pictures i believe that you are not dealing with the release cue, but the pull-up cue. your youtube-videos might be outdated.

check the following video to get an up-to-date explanation of ccrp symbology. be aware however, that the pull-up is not mandatory. you could also continue flying level after the cue, or... idk... even dive...

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by twistking

[Nephris]

Thx for your reply, gonna check out the updated ccrp and return back.

I can remember it was just klick `n laser when I first learned the F-16.

God thx flying DCS after a year is like riding bicyle after 20 years.

[QuiGon]

5 hours ago, Nephris said:

Thx for your reply, gonna check out the updated ccrp and return back.

I can remember it was just klick `n laser when I first learned the F-16.

God thx flying DCS after a year is like riding bicyle after 20 years.

@twistking is probably right: You mistake the pull up cue for the release cue. Just ignore the first cue comming down your HUD and keept flying (because that's just the pull-up cue for a loft attack). There will be a second cue a few moments later. This is the release cue.

[skywalker22]

To continue where QuiGon lesft, if you want to release on 1st cue, you have to change the Release Angle to zero degree. You can change that when you are on SMS page, press CNTL (top left corner), and in the bottom right you have Rel Ang, change it to 0.

Edited June 7, 2023 by skywalker22

[twistking]

13 hours ago, Nephris said:

[...] I can remember it was just klick `n laser when I first learned the F-16.

God thx flying DCS after a year is like riding bicyle after 20 years.

There is also auto-lase now;) You can find the corresponding menu somewhere on the DED...

Yeah, for some reason people say, that early access makes learning easier. I find it the opposite: So many rescources are just outdated... you can' even trust forum posts here, unless they are fairly recent. Frustrating!

[James Corbett]

I had the same issue looking at the screen shot I would say the bomb fall line is too far off. You really need to get the bomb fall line through the aircraft velocity vector in the HUD. I try to get the bomb fall line over the horizontal line at the top of velocity vector. There are some people who have asked if the bombing release requirements are too tight. It seemed to work for me getting the bomb fall line through the middle of the velocity vector. It takes a lot of practice keep at it You will crack it.

 

[Nephris]

Thx for your replies. I will check the pull up cue hint.

But why is there a difference in GBU 10 and GBU 24 (Paveway III). The GBU 24 just drops at known process.

Autolase is a feature of the F-18 not the F-16 isnt it ?

Edited June 7, 2023 by Nephris

[twistking]

10 minutes ago, Nephris said:

Thx for your replies. I will check the pull up cue hint.

But why is there a difference in GBU 10 and GBU 24 (Paveway III). The GBU 24 just drops at known process.

Autolase is a feature of the F-18 not the F-16 isnt it ?

 

First of all, it's important to remember that the Paveway III was added relatively recently and might be a bit more WIP than the others. But to answer your question, i would guess that the Paveway III, since it has much more intelligent guidance, is less reliant on a precision release and therefore inherits more of the symbology from smart weapons. I'm not even sure if the Paveway III has a mode that is actually named CCRP. Isn't it PRE, like with the JDAM?

Anyway.... autolase is a feature of the F-16 too. Check the DED...

[QuiGon]

17 hours ago, Nephris said:

Thx for your replies. I will check the pull up cue hint.

But why is there a difference in GBU 10 and GBU 24 (Paveway III). The GBU 24 just drops at known process.

Autolase is a feature of the F-18 not the F-16 isnt it ?

Paveway IIIs (e.g. GBU-24) have much smarter guidance and can guide onto a laser using an energy saving glide path, similar to a JDAM. Because of this you can  for the entirety of the bomb's flight.
With Paveway IIs (GBU-12, GBU-10, GBU-16) you should only start lasing for the terminal phase of their flight (~10 seconds before impact), because if they start homing in on the laser theyy will bleed a lot of energy due to their "bang-bang" guidance system.

The F-16 has auto-lasing too. You can configure it on the Laser page of the DED.

Edited June 8, 2023 by QuiGon

[twistking]

14 hours ago, QuiGon said:

Paveway IIIs (e.g. GBU-24) have much smarter guidance and can guide onto a laser using an energy saving glide path, similar to a JDAM. Because of this you can  for the entirety of the bomb's flight.
With Paveway IIs (GBU-12, GBU-10, GBU-16) you should only start lasing for the terminal phase of their flight (~10 seconds before impact), because if they start homing in on the laser theyy will bleed a lot of energy due to their "bang-bang" guidance system.

The F-16 has auto-lasing too. You can configure it on the Laser page of the DED.

 

I think the OP's question is answered, so i'll just quickly hijack this thread to ask how to disable auto-lase??? i did not realize before, that auto-lase is default on. how to turn it off? not arming the laser seems more of a workaround than the proper solution!?!

[Tholozor]

3 hours ago, twistking said:

I think the OP's question is answered, so i'll just quickly hijack this thread to ask how to disable auto-lase??? i did not realize before, that auto-lase is default on. how to turn it off? not arming the laser seems more of a workaround than the proper solution!?!

Go to the LASR page on the DED and set LASER ST TIME to 0.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Tholozor

[flavnet]

After some time I faced a mission with my F-16 equipped with GBU-12 bombing some tanks. Frustrating!!!! It's completely different from what I remembered: a confusing symbology appears regarding the dive toss that has nothing to do with a level bombing at high altitude. I don't understand when I have to throw the bomb and even if I keep the fire button pressed, the bomb doesn't start (but the laser is activated eh!). I guess I'll have to relearn how to do a simple thing in a complicated way. Apart from the toss bombing video, useless for releasing a GBU 12, I guess ED didn't offer a video tutorial for the new mode to use for lgb (at least I didn't find it).
Last notation: is the simulation now correct whereas before it was invented?

[twistking]

7 minutes ago, flavnet said:

After some time I faced a mission with my F-16 equipped with GBU-12 bombing some tanks. Frustrating!!!! It's completely different from what I remembered: a confusing symbology appears regarding the dive toss that has nothing to do with a level bombing at high altitude. I don't understand when I have to throw the bomb and even if I keep the fire button pressed, the bomb doesn't start (but the laser is activated eh!). I guess I'll have to relearn how to do a simple thing in a complicated way. Apart from the toss bombing video, useless for releasing a GBU 12, I guess ED didn't offer a video tutorial for the new mode to use for lgb (at least I didn't find it).
Last notation: is the simulation now correct whereas before it was invented?

The toss bombing video by Wags, that i linked above, is valid for all CCRP deliveries. If you want to level bomb, you can just fly level through the pull-up cue and release will be on the release cue. If you follow the toss cue with a climb the release cue will just move quicker towards you, because of physics... You can also set the release angle to 0°, which should disable the pull-up cue.

I assume that the current implementation is correct. I know for sure, that the old one was not, because obviously the old one was missing the pull-up cue!

Edited June 12, 2023 by twistking

[Dr_Pavelheer]

@flavnet Either set release angle to 0 or ignore the first cue, after first cue you get second countdown, you press and hold pickle button and keep flight path vector on azimuth steering line. The only caveat is you need to be very precise otherwise bomb won't drop which I'm pretty sure is a bug

[Falconeer]

57 minutes ago, Dr_Pavelheer said:

The only caveat is you need to be very precise otherwise bomb won't drop which I'm pretty sure is a bug

 

It indeed is. I've been saying so from the start....

 

But since this kind of specific information is not on public documentation, ED refuses to alter this. Only thing mentioned in the non public manuals, saying the pilot needs to be precise in his attack run, to ensure the bomb flies to a spot where it can see the laser.  It is NOWHERE mentioned the bombs won't release if the pilot is not 100% lined up correctly and the F-16 has no option to select between 3/9 or 5 mil like in the A-10C

Also common sense here, what if i pilot makes a bomb run on a defended target, do you really thing he is trying hard to line everything up correctly to ensure the bombs go off? The pilot only drops near the target, so the laser guidance can make sure he hits the target.  Thats the whole point of laser guidance weapons, otherwise you could intead just normal bombs

[Lee1]

Don't know if it's relevant, but I had problems dropping CCRP bombs in level flight.

I notice that the release angle is 45 degrees on your SMS. I had the same and bombs wouldn't go, I changed it to 0 from 45 and bombs left the aircraft.

I'm sure it's a bug as I thought that setting was for lofting.

Rgds

 

[_SteelFalcon_]

39 minutes ago, Lee1 said:

Don't know if it's relevant, but I had problems dropping CCRP bombs in level flight.

I notice that the release angle is 45 degrees on your SMS. I had the same and bombs wouldn't go, I changed it to 0 from 45 and bombs left the aircraft.

I'm sure it's a bug as I thought that setting was for lofting.

Rgds

 

Nah. You can leave the angle at 45° since it only matters if you actually intend to toss the bomb. The symbology shows up at the maximum toss envelope. When the circle starts flashing is when the earliest point in time is to pull up and execute a 45° toss.

now if you do not want to toss it, simple keep on flying level. The toss symbology will disappear after about 2sec, the timer in the hud will reset to 10 seconds and the normal bomb fall line will slowly walk down the ASL. At that point you should hold the wpn release button until that bomb fall line intercepts the flight path marker. It will then start to flash and you‘ll see and hear the weapon release. It is important to keep the flight path marker centered on the ASL. If it‘s not on the line, the bomb does not release.

Edited June 14, 2023 by _SteelFalcon_

[Nephris]

Hi folks,

reading the posts a few times and checking out hours of videos for dropping a gbu 10 or gbu 12 - still no success

What I try to do is to drop a laserguided GBU 10 in a level flight. I activate my autopilot on flight path , the target is directly below the waypoint for testing sake.

I press weapon release at the second timer - the bombs keep glueing to my plane like a f*'*§´ chewing gum.

The first screen represents the first cowntdown  - I leave that pass.

I am pressing weapon release at second timer (2nd screen).

Am I missing the correct drop point to press weapon release  or do i have to hold the weapon relase button for an amount of time?

 

At that point you should hold the wpn release button until that bomb fall line intercepts the flight path marker. It will then start to flash and you‘ll see and hear the weapon release. It is important to keep the flight path marker centered on the ASL. If it‘s not on the line, the bomb does not release. 

 

That is obvuisly the moment I miss and cant find since months.

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Nephris

[rob10]

3 hours ago, Nephris said:

......

I press weapon release at the second timer - the bombs keep glueing to my plane like a f*'*§´ chewing gum.

.......

I am pressing weapon release at second timer (2nd screen).

Am I missing the correct drop point to press weapon release  or do i have to hold the weapon relase button for an amount of time?

From what I read of your post it sounds like you are pressing the release button WHEN the 2nd release cue hits?  If so that's your problem.  You need to PRESS AND HOLD the release button any time after the 1st cue until you go through the 2nd cue and weapons release.

[Falconeer]

21 hours ago, Nephris said:

Hi folks,

reading the posts a few times and checking out hours of videos for dropping a gbu 10 or gbu 12 - still no success

What I try to do is to drop a laserguided GBU 10 in a level flight. I activate my autopilot on flight path , the target is directly below the waypoint for testing sake.

I press weapon release at the second timer - the bombs keep glueing to my plane like a f*'*§´ chewing gum.

The first screen represents the first cowntdown  - I leave that pass.

I am pressing weapon release at second timer (2nd screen).

Am I missing the correct drop point to press weapon release  or do i have to hold the weapon relase button for an amount of time?

That is obvuisly the moment I miss and cant find since months.

 

 

 

You haven't aligned the flight path marker with the bomb fall line... Of all the modules in DCS from which you can drop a GBU, only the F-16 has this most annoying "feature"

 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Falconeer

[Nephris]

At the end it was a solution of both wich means the moment I press&hold was incorrect,

21 hours ago, rob10 said:

From what I read of your post it sounds like you are pressing the release button WHEN the 2nd release cue hits?  If so that's your problem.  You need to PRESS AND HOLD the release button any time after the 1st cue until you go through the 2nd cue and weapons release.

 

and aswell the drop line was still not correct, although I used a target on my waypoint and the autopilot.

3 hours ago, Falconeer said:

You haven't aligned the flight path marker with the bomb fall line..

 

Problem solved, that was a long way round..thx to everyone !