Sinai Map OUT! 🌞

[OnReTech]

22 hours ago, dikkeduif said:

Map looks good overall (great job, and thanks!)
Having said that a lot of areas need improvement, especially in Israel.

So many places have industrial ports (Jaffa port, Mikhmoret, ...), which shouldn't be industrial. A lot of missing landmarks, very generic looking cities/buildings. 
Buildings have this weird reflective shine on them, not sure if somehow wrong shaders were chosen for buildings?

My biggest gripe is the fact that every city looks like a grey blob, as if someone forgot to texture them. But that's my impression on other maps as well.

Ben Gurion has concrete jetways (I see it on other maps as well). And texture work is not that great.

Since these issues are a recurring theme on other maps, I think the DCS map tools must be lacking somehow.

Also looks like some roads are not correct or missing, which is kind of important if you're trying to do VFR with a real map. But maybe this is done for performance reasons.

I see a lot of great things on this map, and hoping it gets further development to fix textures and to add missing landmarks.

 

Good review, thanks. Feedback like this helps us make it better. I am preparing a roadmap, collecting all the information.

I thought we would have only 3 phases in the project that we talked about initially, but I understand that 4 and 5 more are needed

[Hiob]

@OnReTech I have to point out (even though I'm sure, plenty people already did) - even though the Map performs generally well and  looks beautiful, especially the lighting in the dawn and dusk, it is then, when the performance occasionally tanks and is generally about half of what it is in bright daylight.

I'm strictly talking the very dense area around Gizeh/Cairo. I have not checked in other areas. But low and slow in the dawn over the city (when the map is at its peak beauty), it is also at its bottom performance.

To be clear - that's not a complaint or an attack. Just a point that needs further improvement imho.!

[OnReTech]

43 minutes ago, Hiob said:

@OnReTech I have to point out (even though I'm sure, plenty people already did) - even though the Map performs generally well and  looks beautiful, especially the lighting in the dawn and dusk, it is then, when the performance occasionally tanks and is generally about half of what it is in bright daylight.

I'm strictly talking the very dense area around Gizeh/Cairo. I have not checked in other areas. But low and slow in the dawn over the city (when the map is at its peak beauty), it is also at its bottom performance.

To be clear - that's not a complaint or an attack. Just a point that needs further improvement imho.!

I think this is due to cascading shadows, try without them

[Hiob]

48 minutes ago, OnReTech said:

I think this is due to cascading shadows, try without them

Which setting do you refer to exactly? I use Shadows high, Terrain Shasows: flat. Every other Shadow setting is off.

[EmJay22]

This map is amazing. Thank you so much.

But one stupid question... are there going to be some future updates to it? I notice that in some of the parts that overlap the Syria map, some things are not the same.. as in Ramat David airbase not being included. 

 

[Hiob]

34 minutes ago, EmJay22 said:

This map is amazing. Thank you so much.

But one stupid question... are there going to be some future updates to it? I notice that in some of the parts that overlap the Syria map, some things are not the same.. as in Ramat David airbase not being included. 

 

In DCS, different Maps don't correlate with each other (yet?). Even if they cover the same area, they are usually pretty different. Also, usually only the inner areas of a given map are in high detail. To the edges it gets less detailed and pretty bleak at times.

The map will be further enhanced along the road, and more stuff will be added (OnReTech already said this) - but not necessarily completely new areas at the edges of the map. 

[EmJay22]

44 minutes ago, Hiob said:

In DCS, different Maps don't correlate with each other (yet?). Even if they cover the same area, they are usually pretty different. Also, usually only the inner areas of a given map are in high detail. To the edges it gets less detailed and pretty bleak at times.

The map will be further enhanced along the road, and more stuff will be added (OnReTech already said this) - but not necessarily completely new areas at the edges of the map. 

Okay

 

Thanks

[Hiob]

54 minutes ago, EmJay22 said:

Okay

 

Thanks

I may add, that generally in DCS, anything released into Early Access is not feature complete. Modules and Maps. The EA time frame is usually years and apart from bug fixing, more features are implemented. Maps tend to have lesser features and be finished quicker than aircraft. But you get the idea. 

[Mik75]

On 6/12/2023 at 12:48 PM, OnReTech said:

I think this is due to cascading shadows, try without them

I have the same issue. Over Cario, especially during dusk and dawn, I get FPS as bad as 20, including some severe stuttering. What are the recommended settings for the shadows?

Thanks in advance for your help! (And yeah, the map is absolutely gorgeous! )

[OnReTech]

12 hours ago, Mik75 said:

I have the same issue. Over Cario, especially during dusk and dawn, I get FPS as bad as 20, including some severe stuttering. What are the recommended settings for the shadows?

Thanks in advance for your help! (And yeah, the map is absolutely gorgeous! )

it would be cool to have a track and know the characteristics of your PC

[Mik75]

7 minutes ago, OnReTech said:

it would be cool to have a track and know the characteristics of your PC

It happens during evening (sunset), flying over Cairo, coming in for a landing at Cairo International in the F16C, looking around using Track IR. 

My system is rather low end, but runs DCS with stable performance and nice visuals (most of the time):

AMD 5600X, RTX3070, 32GB 3200MHz RAM, all on Samsung 980 M.2 SSD

Edited June 16, 2023 by Mik75

[Hiob]

34 minutes ago, OnReTech said:

it would be cool to have a track and know the characteristics of your PC

I have no track at hand, but I will try to make one.

The relevant specs (probably) are RTX 3080 (10GB), 64GB RAM, 5900X. GFX Settings High, Shadows High, Groundshadows Flat, other Shadow Settings off. MSAA x2. SSAA, SSLR, SSAO off, Heatblur off.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

My simple cold/hot/runway/flight missions for the planes/mods without any QuickStart for this map are out:

 

[MIghtymoo]

I flew the Sinai map yesterday with a buddy in a two-ship with Hinds.

We flew for a few hours around Cairo to eliminate insurgents and experienced the sunset and night. 

I have to say that the map is stunning and beautiful in these conditions. The new lighting, the nice textures of the sand and the cityscape is looking top notch.

[Red_Pilot]

nullFirst of all, I want to say a big thank you to the development team for this great map! I got a great framerate, I definitely liked the colors of the textures of earth and water, it all looks very natural IMHO. Indeed, I would like to have an option for the 60s, but these are just dreams, the map is really really great!

 

Comparing Google maps and the Sinai map, I found that the government octagon looks much more impressive IRL. I wonder if this area will get changes in the future?

G/map: 

Sinai map: 

This is a random find and I'm not sure it's important

I also have a question. Is it possible to increase the detail of the area near the airfields?

At a high altitude above the airfield, you can definitely see good detail.

But at a low altitude, right above the airfield during landings and takeoffs, you see a very monotonous terrain around you for a while.

I'd say I'm a little bored without dirt roads around the airfield.

This is not a problem, but you always want more immersion 

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Red_Pilot

[Ala13_ManOWar]

2 hours ago, Red_Pilot said:

nullFirst of all, I want to say a big thank you to the development team for this great map! I got a great framerate, I definitely liked the colors of the textures of earth and water, it all looks very natural IMHO. Indeed, I would like to have an option for the 60s, but these are just dreams, the map is really really great!

 

Comparing Google maps and the Sinai map, I found that the government octagon looks much more impressive IRL. I wonder if this area will get changes in the future?

G/map:

Sinai map: 

 

 

This is a random find and I'm not sure it's important

I also have a question. Is it possible to increase the detail of the area near the airfields?

At a high altitude above the airfield, you can definitely see good detail.

 

But at a low altitude, right above the airfield during landings and takeoffs, you see a very monotonous terrain around you for a while.

 

I'd say I'm a little bored without dirt roads around the airfield.

 

This is not a problem, but you always want more immersion 

With regards to the Egyptian defense Ministry, TBH I'd think first, being it an strategical place, they didn't want to model it in too much detail, or any, in order to prevent it from being used as a possible detailed example of the site in whatever it could be, right?

 

To the second, the examples you provide for better textures are very nice, but those look like wheels' tracks on the sand, not quite permanent probably.

[Minsky]

2 hours ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

With regards to the Egyptian defense Ministry, TBH I'd think first, being it an strategical place, they didn't want to model it in too much detail, or any, in order to prevent it from being used as a possible detailed example of the site in whatever it could be, right?

Sounds far-fetched.

The "Octagon" has a very distinctive shape, and you can study that complex in great detail, down to the number of solar panels on the roof, using any map.

What we see in DCS is, likely, a raw OSM output named "dense urban area" or something generic like that. And OnReTech didn't bother modelling this landmark... yet?

[OnReTech]

8 hours ago, Minsky said:

Sounds far-fetched.

The "Octagon" has a very distinctive shape, and you can study that complex in great detail, down to the number of solar panels on the roof, using any map.

What we see in DCS is, likely, a raw OSM output named "dense urban area" or something generic like that. And OnReTech didn't bother modelling this landmark... yet?

interesting object, we will pay attention to it

[cfrag]

13 hours ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

With regards to the Egyptian defense Ministry, TBH I'd think first, being it an strategical place, they didn't want to model it in too much detail, or any, in order to prevent it from being used as a possible detailed example of the site in whatever it could be, right?

I think that ship sailed a long time ago with Google maps. Its location is known down to the last meter and it published in public documents (29°56′16.5″N 31°39′14.1″E), you can inspect it any time you want on high res images. I'm looking forward to seeing what ORT will come up with

(And I've marked it on the next iteration of the Tourist Map:

)

Edited June 27, 2023 by cfrag

[Red_Pilot]

After all, I found a kilohertz radio on this map. I wonder what kind of radio stations are these? Who do they belong to and what are they used for?

 

[Ramsay]

1 hour ago, Red_Pilot said:

After all, I found a kilohertz radio on this map. I wonder what kind of radio stations are these? Who do they belong to and what are they used for?

They are NDB's (non-directional beacon's) used for navigation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-directional_beacon

AQC @326 kHz is a real world beacon.
https://skyvector.com/?ll=29.92351768255035,35.128440870413186&chart=301&zoom=1

[Red_Pilot]

TBH I was wondering why kilohertz stations were used , and not a TACAN as nearby in Egypt. It seems they are only in the western part of Israel. Is this possible only for small planes?

[cfrag]

NDB is such a fundamental and simple nav aid (to build and operate, on the ground and in the air) that a lot of airframes can use it, particularly those from the 50s-70s era, both eastern and western. TACAN is more advanced, mostly western and requires more advanced navigation equipment both on the ground and in the air (in a sim not truly an obstacle). Those NDB close to Eilat seems to be an Harbinger for the currently missing (defunct as of 2018) Eilat Airport. 

Oh, and I find ADF/VOR nav more fun than TACAN so I have no quarrels with them -- but that's just me  

 

[corbu1]

So the Sinai map is out now for some weeks and after doing some flying on it……just wanted to say thank you for this great location providing in DCS!!!

[Khegrow]

Hey Guys,
Thanks for the map.

Maybe this was reported already but I've found that AI Ground Units do NOT follow the roads as in the ME (setup a Group of vehicles, put all waypoints on the road.) and let them drive in the circles.
I've noticed that units will leave the roads and drive cross country.. (in my case through the woods).

Tested on Sinai
Group placed north of Hatzerim Air Base.

Cheers
K