DLSS & VR

[DayGlow]

11 hours ago, Nedum said:

This must be something new. AFAIK till today, it's not possible to use DLAA and DLSS at the same time. Is there new information about that?

DLSS has an "AA" effect, but this effect is not the same as DLAA.

You can choose DLAA >>or<< DLSS, not both at the same time.

I believe the grayed out in DCS stand for = not working, not possible to choose.

Is DLAA cheaper as other AA methods? No! DLAA is all or nothing. It's not like MSAA, where you can choose how much GPU power will be used by choosing 2 times of this effect or more. DLAA is more like SSAA, but it's using special nVidia GPU cores.

Does it look better; it depends. I would say yes. I would compare it with SSAA and if I compare the used GPU power of both, DLAA needs less GPU power as SSAA.

Will DLAA look better in DCS as MSAA x 4 = yes, I think so, but for the same or more GPU power usage.

I would wish we would get TAA. That would be a huge improvement for all GPU brands.

 

For what I've seen in the Video (@4k) the picture was not as sharp as the one of the older Vids. Especially the F-16 cockpit was looking very blurry for me.

The 2.9 video shows DLAA had a 10+ fps improvement over MSAA X4 

[Twwhitey]

4 hours ago, zildac said:

I'm really hoping that DLAA will rid VR of the "shimmers" AND still allow the use of @mbucchia DFR in the Aero. Pretty Sure DLSS will break it.

At the risk of being one of those "early" commenters post update I can tell you I'm already 100% impressed with the update.  4090/13900K/HP G2 user here and I can say that DLSS has had a major positive impact for me.   

Let me explain - I use the F-16/Syria/Free Flight as my stress test and once in ship make a beeline to fly right over Beirut ~500AGL.... previously once you get over Beirut using MSAA 2x would be a slide show (using OpenXR 75% render resolution) - motion smoothing would smooth it out but was 100% required to do so as there was no way to maintain 90fps.

Just now running that same mission, same test with DLSS set to quality or balanced I'm able to keep it 90fps and that's bumping the RR up to 85%... pretty amazing and the shimmering?  all but gone as far as I can tell.. massive improvement there.  High Textures, Ultra clouds, etc.  Pretty awesome and I'll admit I've been an unhappy customer with the last year of updates (including Multithreading which seemingly ran WORSE for me) as they've done literally nothing to improve performance to me... this is an OBVIOUS improvement.

Initial reaction?  is DLSS perfect?  no, I notice a slight about of ghosting/blurring around fast moving objects or stationary objects you're screaming past but not nearly as bad as "bad" motion smoothing... noticeable but barely so.  I'm pretty ecstatic as that particular stress test has been unbeatable for me... DLSS is for real I think.

Note that I appears it only works with OpenXR though (not sure if that's written anywhere)... firing up the single-threaded version with SteamVR/OpenVR all the AA and Upscaling options except for MSAA are greyed out... so it appears that SteamVR/OpenVR is now dead dead for us hold outs... still this makes the multi-threaded exe and OpenXR absolutely usable and much much improved for me.. hope it is for the rest of the population... if so ED has a winner here

Edited October 19, 2023 by Twwhitey

[slughead]

48 minutes ago, Twwhitey said:

At the risk of being one of those "early" commenters post update I can tell you I'm already 100% impressed with the update.  4090/13900K/HP G2 user here and I can say that DLSS has had a major positive impact for me.   

Let me explain - I use the F-16/Syria/Free Flight as my stress test and once in ship make a beeline to fly right over Beirut ~500AGL.... previously once you get over Beirut using MSAA 2x would be a slide show (using OpenXR 75% render resolution) - motion smoothing would smooth it out but was 100% required to do so as there was no way to maintain 90fps.

Just now running that same mission, same test with DLSS set to quality or balanced I'm able to keep it 90fps and that's bumping the RR up to 85%... pretty amazing and the shimmering?  all but gone as far as I can tell.. massive improvement there.  High Textures, Ultra clouds, etc.  Pretty awesome and I'll admit I've been an unhappy customer with the last year of updates (including Multithreading which seemingly ran WORSE for me) as they've done literally nothing to improve performance to me... this is an OBVIOUS improvement.

Initial reaction?  is DLSS perfect?  no, I notice a slight about of ghosting/blurring around fast moving objects or stationary objects you're screaming past but not nearly as bad as "bad" motion smoothing... noticeable but barely so.  I'm pretty ecstatic as that particular stress test has been unbeatable for me... DLSS is for real I think.

Note that I appears it only works with OpenXR though (not sure if that's written anywhere)... firing up the single-threaded version with SteamVR/OpenVR all the AA and Upscaling options except for MSAA are greyed out... so it appears that SteamVR/OpenVR is now dead dead for us hold outs... still this makes the multi-threaded exe and OpenXR absolutely usable and much much improved for me.. hope it is for the rest of the population... if so ED has a winner here

 

Early days... but not for me. DLSS is a performance improvement but at a loss of sharpness/detail. I have LOD turned to the max and sharpness up to 0.5. It's still not good. The clouds are looking blocky. Aircraft in the air look like they are melting with streaks of black smearing off them when you get close. It's a significant downgrade for me.

[Sile]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb slughead:

Early days... but not for me. DLSS is a performance improvement but at a loss of sharpness/detail. I have LOD turned to the max and sharpness up to 0.5. It's still not good. The clouds are looking blocky. Aircraft in the air look like they are melting with streaks of black smearing off them when you get close. It's a significant downgrade for me.

Try with DLSS off and only DLAA instead of MSAA.

[slughead]

1 minute ago, Sile said:

Try with DLSS off and only DLAA instead of MSAA.

Will do... when my headset has charged. 

[fastfed]

so you're using two upscalers ?? DLSS AND openXR's FSR? ??  

[slughead]

13 minutes ago, fastfed said:

so you're using two upscalers ?? DLSS AND openXR's FSR? ??  

Who are you asking? It would be helpful to include a quote in your message.

Edited October 19, 2023 by slughead

[Kayos]

Disabling OpenXR fixed the DLSS shimmering for me.

[nilpointer]

2 hours ago, Kayos said:

Disabling OpenXR fixed the DLSS shimmering for me.

By disabling Open XR do you mean OpenXR toolkit? or OpenXR itself?

[lax22]

In the Pimax Crystal, DLSS in DCS looks horrible to me. (blurred cockpit instruments and lots of shimmering in the environment)

DLSS also has problems in MSFS VR but for me the blurred cockpit instruments that it causes in DCS are significantly worse than in MSFS.

The DLAA option without DLSS achieves pretty good results. The cockpit instruments still look a bit worse than with MSAA but the environment looks better than MSAA.

Hopefully VR is still taken into consideration by NVIDIA in the future development of DLSS so that we might see improved DLSS versions in the future...

Edited October 20, 2023 by lax22

[recoilfx]

I am starting to think that somehow the DLSS implementation is bugged. Using DLAA only and I get smears and it's still more blurry than MSAA. DLAA is bascially DLSS at 100% render resolution, why would it look less sharp?

[Pyrocumulous]

Looking at DLSS in VR reminds me how amazing Quad Views already is.

[Spetz]

Been messing around with settings on my Quest 2. DLSS is super blurry. Switching to DLAA with OpenXR CAS sharpening at 50% brings it just about back to MSAA 2X.

 I’ve noticed now that missions load super fast and with all other options on high except textures medium, I’m locked at a sold 36 FPS per eye with zero drops, so that’s awesome!

Edited October 20, 2023 by Spetz

[hannibal]

disabled OpenXR toolkit, i have DLSS and DLAA on, not crazy about the ghosting that occurs on moving objects and moving your head in VR..

have to find the right combination of what to turn on and what to turn off.. 

[Gorn_GER]

The Point in DLSS for me is, that smooth>sharp most of the Times. Tried out MSAA, DLAA and DLSS in some settings and find out, earlyer with MSAA (i7 10700k, RTX 4090, HP Reverb G2) everything already looked sharp and i had a smooth picture but in a dogfight it was a little bit like the enemy plane is not passing by but warping some meters very fast. This warping made it difficult for my Eyes/Brain to follow the enemy. But with DLSS, they look somewhat like a shooting star with a blurry tail but they are there, all the time, very smooth passing by. My Brain has no problem with that. 

 

The only real problem are the MFDs. If i push the Zoom button, everything is clear but from my normal seat position, everything is a bit too blurry and moving parts like enemy blips look like shooting stars, too. That has to be fixed somehow. 

[MIghtymoo]

DLAA is my prefered method after testing alot yesterday with my Pico 4.

Shimmering and flickering is all gone. Cockpit is a tad bit less sharp, but I can live with that.

Very happy!

[nilpointer]

1 hour ago, hannibal said:

disabled OpenXR toolkit, i have DLSS and DLAA on, not crazy about the ghosting that occurs on moving objects and moving your head in VR..

have to find the right combination of what to turn on and what to turn off.. 

So I was kind of sceptical this would have an effect... and I'll be honest I have not done exactly the same but there is clearly something to this. Prior to patch I have been running the usual OpenXR Toolkit + Quad-Views-Foveated for my Quest 3. On a 4090 this was giving me a solid 72pfs (Quest 72Hz mode) without motion projection in a few areas I use to benchmark my personal experience. 

Post patch I was choking and stuttering with the same settings and many combinations of DLAA/DLSS etc. I did update QVF this morning to no avail. Low and behold I just removed it all and am back to buttery smooth framerate with everything cranked up. Wondering if @mbucchia has some thoughts on this?

Edited October 20, 2023 by nilpointer

[chichowalker]

DLSS is very nice in my case. Reverb G2 here, with DCS high settings. I increased resolution using override option in toolkit to 3300x3225 and CAS with 50% sharpening. Amazing how cockpits looks, almost no clouds shimmering. DCS sharpening to 0.5 and LOD slider to 0.8.
Very good performance. Only negative imputs are, little ghosting specially with aircraft movements and radar cursors in Viper, Hornet and Eagle. Apart from that I'm happy with the results.
Nothing to do with this is dot spotting function that has to be overriden, I can not deactivate it adding line to autoexec. This is removing me from immersion.

Enviado desde mi 21051182G mediante Tapatalk

[MIghtymoo]

32 minutes ago, nilpointer said:

So I was kind of sceptical this would have an effect... and I'll be honest I have not done exactly the same but there is clearly something to this. Prior to patch I have been running the usual OpenXR Toolkit + Quad-Views-Foveated for my Quest 3. On a 4090 this was giving me a solid 72pfs (Quest 72Hz mode) without motion projection in a few areas I use to benchmark my personal experience. 

Post patch I was choking and stuttering with the same settings and many combinations of DLAA/DLSS etc. I did update QVF this morning to no avail. Low and behold I just removed it all and am back to buttery smooth framerate with everything cranked up. Wondering if @mbucchia has some thoughts on this?

 

I also struggled with above and decided to disable OXRTK and installed Quad FOV rendering. DCS is running well when flying, but a little stuttery in the main menu and ME. Will try to disable Quad Fov to see the difference. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by MIghtymoo

[nilpointer]

5 minutes ago, MIghtymoo said:

I also struggled with above and decided to disable OXRTK and installed Quad FOV rendering. DCS is running well when flying, but a little stuttery in the main menu and ME. Will try to disable Quad Fov to see the difference. 

 

Noticed there is also another release of QVF (1.1.3) since I removed, this will of course be worth checking as well

[mbucchia]

Those updates in Quad-Views-Foveated are only affecting small bits of code during game initialization, specific to initialization of the eye tracking. They have no effect on performance.

What I'm told is that 2.9 appears to be heavier on CPU, which isn't something that plays well with quad views. You're probably getting CPU limited now and this is causing your performance issues.

[nilpointer]

Interesting! Thanks for the reply @mbucchia

[TAIPAN_]

Anyone that's running QuadViews at high resolution - is the new spotting OK? Can you see the dots in the centre region with high SS? 

[witwas]

I am pretty happy with my aero vario and eye tracking enabled in the latest 2.8 version. Is there a reason to use DLSS on a high end system?

[MIghtymoo]

3 minutes ago, witwas said:

I am pretty happy with my aero vario and eye tracking enabled in the latest 2.8 version. Is there a reason to use DLSS on a high end system?

For high end systems, I would only enable DLAA.

I don't like the blurriness and ghosting in DLSS.