DLSS & VR

[Willie Nelson]

2 hours ago, St4rgun said:

Here's my 2cents based on experience with MSFS and Reverb G2:

DLSS is the BEST visual quality in that sim in VR, period. The trick is that in VR you'll need quite a bit of supersampling for not only anti-aliasing but for correctly counter-distort the lenses. That's why the G2's 100% resolution set to around 3100x3100 pixels per eye in Steam, despite the headset having "only" 2160x2160 pixels per eye resolution.

The best we can do is set the headset to 3500x3500 or even 4000x4000 resolution per eye (sounds silly, eh?), and turn on DLSS to have the game's rendering lower (like the native 2160x2160) and let DLSS do the proper upscaling. The result will be not only a MUCH sharper image, but a much larger hotspot (even edge to edge clarity). It's incredible.

I have very high hopes in DLSS an DLAA in DCS with VR, I'm super excited!

So are you suggesting that the render resolution should be lowered?

[Dangerzone]

1 hour ago, Willie Nelson said:

So are you suggesting that the render resolution should be lowered?

No, I think what he's suggesting is that the render resolution should be kept at the native (as you have it now), but that DLSS will super-sample from there and give a crisper image.

This sounds encouraging. I have in the past punched the PD up all the way to see the difference, and indeed the picture is far clearer in my VR. In some ways it doesn't make sense - seems that if the headset can only pump 2160x2160 then there should be no additional clarity as it can only do those pixels, but the tests show otherwise - the image really jumps out in the VR. Obviously running PD at 2.0 also means that my frames are about 3FPS, so it's not usable - but it was interesting to see the 'what if' scenario.

So from what I'm understanding by WN's post is that DLSS will allow me to achieve something similar to this without any extra load on the GPU, as I can keep the PD to 1.0 as it currently is, but DLSS will effectively do some super sampling for me. 

I'm hopeful that not only will this increase the sharpness, but also reduce the shimmering at the same time. There's talk here about DLAA as well. It sounds like it's a newer form of AA that is better than MSAA and with less overhead, so it may also mean that not only do we get a sharper image with less aliasing as well, but we may have some extra overhead on the GPU to be able to increase another graphic setting and maintain the current GPU workload (if my understanding of all this is correct).

[Qcumber]

8 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

No, I think what he's suggesting is that the render resolution should be kept at the native (as you have it now), but that DLSS will super-sample from there and give a crisper image

This is what I was alluding to in my comment above. You can already use FSR or NIS from openxr toolkit to do this but DLSS should give much better results (hopefully). 

[zildac]

My primary want for DLSS is to reduce the shimmering in VR. I suspect I'll see no performance improvement as I am CPU bound.

[Mr_sukebe]

Yep, my understanding of DLAA is that:

- it does NOT perform any type of upscaling, so there’s no performance benefits from that side

- it can be used instead of MSAA, which is how I use it in that civ sim.  
I’ve no idea if it eats less or more performance that MSAA, but “maybe”.

For myself, I much prefer the visual result of using DLAA

[St4rgun]

DLAA should be much higher quality in DCS in VR.

MSAA only partially works here (shimmering everywhere), plus MSAA requires much more resources (as I understand in VR it's not compatible with hardware MSAA of the cards because of the deferred shading of DCS).

[Ramstein]

if DLSS puts some of the load on the CPU<,I am happy about that, as my computer has an awesome Intel 13900 CPU and DDR5 Ram. The GPU is the old 2080 TI. Let it use some of the untapped CPU!

[dburne]

Alls I know is Nvidia is coming up with too many new dang nomenclatures. My old feeble mind can not keep up any more.

[SharpeXB]

DLSS isn’t really supersampling, it’s upscaling. But DLUS just doesn’t sound sexy

[TAIPAN_]

For DLSS I think the DLSS 3 framegen only works with HAGS on and only on flatscreen, VR will revert to DLSS 2.0 (which doesn't require HAGS). At least this is what I've learned from the MSFS guys. I've also heard that MSFS has an issue with the way they render the glass cockpits, so if DCS does that differently to MSFS maybe our MFDs won't have the same blurry text issues that MSFS has with DLSS. Fingers crossed!

A side issue is enemy aircraft spotting/scaling will get worse as we up our resolution in our headsets for this tech.  My hope is that DCS fixes the aircraft scaling as well to cater for such high supersampling and DLSS technology.

In the crystal when running high SS on the center portion the "pixel dot" that represents the aircraft becomes invisible ie its lost in the process of SS and up/down-scaling. Even with the contact spotting "dot mod" it doesn't really work because of the extra DFR supersampling. 

I don't have the same problem in IL2 as that doesn't use a pixel/dot system to represent distant aircraft, I believe they simply scale the size of the aircraft more appropriately the same as other objects are scaled (like terrain etc) as we get further away. They've done a great job to be honest in fixing spotting and DCS should look to IL2 GB when fixing this to find out why the difference is so vast.

 

 

[Motomouse]

I get very good results with DLSS in MSFS.

When I used Aero 39 PPD highest settings and DFR for good picture quality in MSFS I achieved about 30 to 40 FPS with 3080 & 5600.

With DLSS Balanced setting combined with my settings I achieve 45 FPS+ in all situations.

DLSS Balanced 4200 x 3700 + DFR on the Aero looks much better than DLSS Balanced 2160x2160 on the Reverb G2 at the same FPS levels in MSFS. The DLSS Artifacts are less noticable on the high res and the clarity of the high PPD is preserved while not exeeding the VRAM limits of my 3080.

 

I do not expect much from DLSS in DCS VR for me personally, because I already achieve stable 45 FPS in DCS without it. Perhaps I will be able to crank some settings up.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Motomouse

[SneakyBastd]

I cannot figure out DLSS in MSFS. Prior to SU12, turning DLSS (with frame gen) on would make a huge difference. I went from 80fps to 120fps over new york @ 3440X1440.

But after SU12 something totally broke DLSS. No DLSS setting makes any difference now. I'm stuck at the base frame rate. HAGS on/off, REBAR on/off, drivers, complete re-install, etc. Tried it all.

I only play it in VR now, but a few more frames from DLSS would be nice.

[Motomouse]

3080 does not support frame gen

[Chapa]

In the ED video about DCS voice chat 2.9 tutorial video, we can see 2 new settings :

Anti-Aliasing = DLAA

Upscaling = DLSS

And a third one that could be interesting : LOD Switch factor (cursor)

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Chapa

[Mr_sukebe]

Good spot, I missed that

[Twwhitey]

5 hours ago, Chapa said:

In the ED video about DCS voice chat 2.9 tutorial video, we can see 2 new settings :

Anti-Aliasing = DLAA

Upscaling = DLSS

And a third one that could be interesting : LOD Switch factor (cursor)

Indeed... good find... some intriguing settings in the mix... where's the video discussing these at this point!  

Edited October 18, 2023 by Twwhitey

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Twwhitey said:

Indeed... good find... some intriguing settings in the mix... where's the video discussing these at this point!  

 

 

VR = The red headed stepchild.

[Mr_sukebe]

That's interesting.  Wag's appears to be using DLAA and DLSS upscaling.  I got the impression that it was one or the other, not both.

[chichowalker]

As you can see there, DLAA is grayed cos is the only AA method that can be used with DLSS, otherwise "off" would appear in AA method without possibility to select any option.

Enviado desde mi 21051182G mediante Tapatalk

[-Relax-]

Anyone can already explain LOD Switch Factor?

There are two more new settings wich i never heard about.

SSS and Color Grading

 

[Nedum]

7 hours ago, chichowalker said:

As you can see there, DLAA is grayed cos is the only AA method that can be used with DLSS, otherwise "off" would appear in AA method without possibility to select any option.

Enviado desde mi 21051182G mediante Tapatalk
 

This must be something new. AFAIK till today, it's not possible to use DLAA and DLSS at the same time. Is there new information about that?

DLSS has an "AA" effect, but this effect is not the same as DLAA.

You can choose DLAA >>or<< DLSS, not both at the same time.

I believe the grayed out in DCS stand for = not working, not possible to choose.

Is DLAA cheaper as other AA methods? No! DLAA is all or nothing. It's not like MSAA, where you can choose how much GPU power will be used by choosing 2 times of this effect or more. DLAA is more like SSAA, but it's using special nVidia GPU cores.

Does it look better; it depends. I would say yes. I would compare it with SSAA and if I compare the used GPU power of both, DLAA needs less GPU power as SSAA.

Will DLAA look better in DCS as MSAA x 4 = yes, I think so, but for the same or more GPU power usage.

I would wish we would get TAA. That would be a huge improvement for all GPU brands.

 

For what I've seen in the Video (@4k) the picture was not as sharp as the one of the older Vids. Especially the F-16 cockpit was looking very blurry for me.

[Mr_sukebe]

I’m really excited about DLAA as a result of what I’ve seen in that Civ sim.  It’ll be interesting to see how well it works within DCS.

I did watch a video this week comparing DLAA to TAA, and DLAA had the edge.  That was a completely different game engine, so no guarantees, but fingers crossed.

[Marshallman]

Wonder if this will open further options on Open XR 

[Mr_sukebe]

10 minutes ago, Marshallman said:

Wonder if this will open further options on Open XR 

What are you thinking of?

[Marshallman]

Absolute Newby to VR so im curious