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data link on AH-64

giullep

By giullep
in DCS: AH-64D

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DD_Friar

DD_Friar

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I believe it is Apache to Apache and not Apache to/from other aircraft.

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FalcoGer

FalcoGer

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The Apache has several different datalinks available. We will unfortunately only get 1 of them. The datalink works over the regular radio antennas. JVMF is only usable over FM radios, but we probably won't be getting JVMF anyway. There is AFAPD using the longbow protocol. Apparently some message formats are compatible with E8, F16 and A10 message formats (source: https://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2005/september/i_ids4.html). We won't be getting any compatibility with other aircraft, would be neat though.

AFAPD is usable with all the radios except the HF radio. AFAPD allows a wide variety of messages to be sent and received, in DCS this will likely only be possible between AH64s, and possibly the OH58 when it releases, since they were designed to work together.

It can do

  • transmission of all types of points, except terrain points (not sure about that one). All points of a specific type or individual ones.
  • routes (individual and all)
  • lines, areas and zones (priority and no fire zones)
  • free text
  • missions (orders)
  • shot-at (bda) points and requests
  • fcr targets
  • position reports
  • farm (fuel, ammo, rockets, missiles) reports and requests
  • laser codes
  • some other stuff

I don't know how much of that we'll get, but probably not all of it. Most likely we'll get transmission of points, FCR targets, position and FARM at the very least. Most of the datalink functionality is accessed through the TSD and FCR pages. Some settings might be tuned in the bowels of the COM sub pages.

The position datalink doesn't work like jets with datalink or the KA50 datalink though. It doesn't show any updating symbols on the TSD. This is because positions aren't updated continuously, but only when a report is manually sent. When receiving a datalink request, tone will play and a REC subpage will be added to the TSD where you can respond to queries, or not. You can also set up automatic responses. Data like position reports will be sent through the RPT (report) sub-page. FARM and SHOT-AT is available through the coord page. The point page is used to send individual points using the XMIT button. The FCR page will have a button (RF Hand-Off) where you can transmit targeting data to your flight members. Routes, all points of a type, text, missions, and laser codes will be sent through the comm page.

Other datalink systems on the apache, which we will not get, are

  • ATHS-TACFIRE, which is used to talk to artillery units using digital messages
  • JVMF-Tactical Internet, which is used for situation reports, spot reports and also position reports. BFT is using this network in the apache.
  • JVMF-Fire Support Net, used for air fire missions

There is a simple text only link available for the HF radio, but I couldn't find more info about it.


Edited by FalcoGer
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Raptor9

Raptor9

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While there has been some inaccurate information being put forth in this thread, it is true that we have no plans to implement any other datalink types aside from the AH-64D-to-AH-64D datalink. And despite the claims above, this datalink type is not compatible with A-10's or F-16's.

Best to wait for the DCS: AH-64D datalink preview video to see how it will work. 😉

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Raptor9

Raptor9

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Just now, krazyj said:

@Raptor9 you make it sound like @Wags is uploading the video right now. 

Are we talking days or weeks before the update is being rolled out. I know you cant give a date but whats the estimated timeframe ?

I don't have any news to share regarding either the video or the release timeframe; estimates, dates, or otherwise.

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krazyj

krazyj

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33 minutes ago, Raptor9 said:

I don't have any news to share regarding either the video or the release timeframe; estimates, dates, or otherwise.

fair enough, cant blame a fellow for trying. in any case Im looking forward to the update and further dev on the Apache.

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FalcoGer

FalcoGer

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4 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

While there has been some inaccurate information being put forth in this thread, it is true that we have no plans to implement any other datalink types aside from the AH-64D-to-AH-64D datalink. And despite the claims above, this datalink type is not compatible with A-10's or F-16's.

Best to wait for the DCS: AH-64D datalink preview video to see how it will work. 😉

it's literally boeing, you know the guys who build this thing, saying it does. Where is your source? Also feel free to correct any mistakes.

Quote

AFAPD allows the Apache to exchange messages with the U.S. Air Force's E-8C Joint Surveillance Target Attack Radar System aircraft. Some of the Apache's AFAPD messages are compatible for communications with variants of A-10 and F-16 aircraft.

Again, same source.


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Raptor9

Raptor9

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2 hours ago, FalcoGer said:

it's literally boeing, you know the guys who build this thing, saying it does. Where is your source? Also feel free to correct any mistakes.

My source is real world experience and hands-on use of what is actually possible, not a Google search of the internet. A lot of things change in the real world equipment from what is announced and what actually becomes reality.

The A-10's SADL was supposed to be broadly fielded between the US Air Force and the US Army to enable direct communication with ground forces. It doesn't, because the Army decided not to field SADL after the fact. The Fire Support protocol was supposed to facilitate artillery fire missions via datalink, but it was depreciated and wasn't even functional, even though the option exists in the cockpit. Reality does not always conform to what can be searched for on the internet.

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Raptor9

Raptor9

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25 minutes ago, FalcoGer said:

Can it talk to Joint STAR? I know we don't have the E8 or similar aircraft in DCS, just curious.

Yes.

And for those forum users out there (you know who you are) that have a penchant for posting documents that you should not, before any forum rules are violated regarding what can be posted here, AH-64D's talking to E-8's is open source information. However, how it is actually performed and what happens in each aircraft is not open source information.

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Dragon1-1

Dragon1-1

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21 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

Reality does not always conform to what can be searched for on the internet.

You could say that stuff on internet (particularly on official sites) can sometimes be what the manufacturer wished was done, as opposed to what's actually possible to do on the hardware. 🙂 I suspect many a helo pilot was equally disappointed they couldn't directly call fire missions via datalink, despite the option seemingly being there.

BTW, was shooting and correcting arty over regular voice comms a thing with AH-64D? I know the infantry procedure for doing this is not exactly secret, and it'd be nice to have a few tubes as backup when missiles just won't do.

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Raptor9

Raptor9

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14 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

BTW, was shooting and correcting arty over regular voice comms a thing with AH-64D?

All Army aviators receive training in how to call artillery. I can't speak for how often the Lift or Assault communities practiced it, but Attack and Scout crews practiced it quite often. It's just as important as working with infantry, JTACs, fixed-wing CAS, etc.

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hotrod525

hotrod525

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Posted

I dont want to be the guy who "complain" but the video made me feel more about a "How to set it" rathen that "what can it do".

So what can we send / receive ? Can we see eachother ? Do we have to ping ? He talk about "acknoledging" so the system must be doing the "seen / read" we are all use to. 

And of course the most usefull stuff probably behind a "restricted barrier" and we surely wont have an E-8 JSTARS in DCS (even AI) anytime soon...

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Raptor9

Raptor9

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6 minutes ago, hotrod525 said:

I dont want to be the guy who "complain" but the video made me feel more about a "How to set it" rathen that "what can it do".

The video is titled "Datalink Setup", and Wags says in the video that it is "how you set up the datalink", and then mentioned what will be in the following video.

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hotrod525

hotrod525

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14 minutes ago, Raptor9 said:

The video is titled "Datalink Setup", and Wags says in the video that it is "how you set up the datalink", and then mentioned what will be in the following video.

Well he had time to tease  us with FCR, could have show us a TSD real quick with an upcoming more detailed video... but your are right, it is named "Datalink Setup".

We can see another helo and it's FCR scan (i'd guess PRI + TM ?), could not make anything else out...

Capture d’écran 2023-10-03 181752.png

 

EDIT : Nevermind, he's "PANNING" so we basicly only see he's ship... meh... 😞

 


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Silver_Dragon

Silver_Dragon

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On Wags video comentaries:

Quote

NOTE 1. Due to complications stemming from our other businesses, we had to adjust datalink terms. In this case, Secure Modem Datalink (SMDL). This is all I will say on the matter. 
NOTE 2. As always, these videos provide a preview of an upcoming feature to assist you in understanding a new feature. Later, it is quite possible that the feature will change, and the feature functionality has changed. As much as I’d like to, I lack the time re-record these videos. 
NOTE 3. The next AH-64D datalink video will instruct how to transmit and receive datalink text messages, tactical reports, and points.

 

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FrostLaufeyson

FrostLaufeyson

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6小时前，hotrod525说：

I dont want to be the guy who "complain" but the video made me feel more about a "How to set it" rathen that "what can it do".

So what can we send / receive ? Can we see eachother ? Do we have to ping ? He talk about "acknoledging" so the system must be doing the "seen / read" we are all use to. 

And of course the most usefull stuff probably behind a "restricted barrier" and we surely wont have an E-8 JSTARS in DCS (even AI) anytime soon...

Be patient, mate

Check the description below the video

引用

 

NOTE 3. The next AH-64D datalink video will instruct how to transmit and receive datalink text messages, tactical reports, and points.

 

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Floyd1212

Floyd1212

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I’m confused on Wags’ Note 2.

It seems like he is saying something has changed in the functionality of the datalink since he recorded that video? Or maybe in the yet-to-be-released video on how to use it?

I guess we will see…


Edited by Floyd1212
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Vakarian

Vakarian

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It's more of a disclaimer, not neccessarily related to this video. For instance, he did F-16 video a while a go, things got changed in the meantime but there wasn't updated video. I'm 99% sure this is the reason for this note. You can see it in recent Viper and Hornet videos too

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