Patch notes discussion October 2023 - DCS 2.9

[Wiggo]

I have pretty old computer. I dont have that "shaking" (like in that jsow video), but i think i have pretty much same problem, my lag just is 2-5 secs in every "freeze"  Was very surprised first while trialing with "instant action" and just flying around with Hornet, with pretty much my old settings. (i still changed everything once, and then back just in case) that there was pretty much 30fps over kobuleti airfield, as it was somewhere near 19-26 before. BUT when changing view to any direction, graphics start to "nogde" (dont know right english word for this). It just freezes for a moment and then continues. its like 30->play->pause->30->play->pause-30-pause-pause-pause, pretty random. Havent found any setting it corraletes with, have tried pretty much every setting from low to high and customs. Graphics are now like a car, where fuel is running low, just before engine shuts completly  Kangaroo graphics.

[zero2005]

Any chance we can get the DLSS option "unlocked" somehow? so that we can push REAL FSR2 through the DLSS option? (The current iteration of FSR is *not* FSR2, its FSR v1.2 with TAA locked and not the same, unless you are doing some sort of black magic hiding the FSR files...)

I'm able to run DCS through a vulkan compatibility layer via DXVK, and have replaced the dlss files, however there's no way to select the DLSS option. IF I were able to force select the DLSS option, it would be interesting to see how actual FSR2 runs...

The above method is the same way Cyberpunk and other games were modded into using actual FSR2.

[Manhorne]

3 hours ago, rob10 said:

Check the bottom right of your splash screen and see if it says MT preview.  The default path in the DCS shortcut was changed from ST to MT in this patch, so even if you are using the same shortcut you might be using MT even if you don't know it currently.

You are correct. It is running in Multi Threading Preview... I ran it back to the none MT version and it is back to normal...THANKS for the info and Help...

Edited October 21, 2023 by Manhorne

[FusRoPotato]

We might need some questions answered about the new VOIP system:

1. How can we pump in audio played from external sources (not the miz file), such as AI driven voice or files? This is a feature SRS has but I don't see anything about it in recent notes.
2. Everything is greyed out in the radio settings page. Despite the recent video about it, the settings don't make sense. What do they do, why are they there? Why are there options to add radios and what does that mean? There are virtually no tooltips or explanations for any of it, nor does it make any sense intuitively. Maybe this could be answered with properly labeled and descriptive UI, or maybe it was an inappropriate?
3. Why are there no global settings for it? I don't want to mess with a massive list of settings for every single aircraft and every radio it has.
4. Why hasn't anything been done about the FC3 style radio? SRS solves that problem, and this new system doesn't seem to address it at all because I can hear transmissions on all frequencies.
5. How can I change the RADIO menu to be passive / unobtrusive, showing a transmission reception status bar of sorts, like what SRS provides, as a visual indicator for radio status? The ctrl shift tab menu is very large and obtrusive.
6. There are still bugs existing that inhibit AI radio comms due to bugged callsign assignment in the mission editor. Why is that? It's a years old problem...

I feel like an attempt was made to replace SRS and only made it 10% of the way, unless there is a lot I am unaware of?

Edited October 21, 2023 by FusRoPotato

[JEFX]

@Hiob (Sorry, I was away at work) yes, I eventually got it thanks!  Using MT version and DLSS, my performance in VR increased tremendously!!!

[twistking]

10 minutes ago, FusRoPotato said:

We might need some questions answered about the new VOIP system:

1. How can we pump in audio played from external sources (not the miz file), such as AI driven voice or files? This is a feature SRS has but I don't see anything about it in recent notes.
2. Everything is greyed out and uninterruptible in the radio settings page. Despite the recent video about it, the settings don't make sense. What do they do, why are they there? Why are there options to add radios and what does that mean? There are virtually no tooltips or explanations for any of it, nor does it make any sense intuitively. Maybe this could be answered with properly labeled and descriptive AI, or maybe it was an inappropriate development?
3. Why are there no global settings for it? I don't want to mess with a massive list of settings for every single aircraft and every radio it has.
4. Why hasn't anything been done about the FC3 style radio? SRS solves that problem, and this new system doesn't seem to address it at all because I can hear transmissions on all frequencies.
5. How can I change the RADIO menu to be passive / unobtrusive, showing a transmission reception status bar of sorts, like what SRS provides, as a visual indicator for radio status? The ctrl shift tab menu is very large and obtrusive.
6. There are still bugs existing that inhibit AI radio comms due to bugged callsign assignment in the mission editor. Why is that? It's a years old problem...

I feel like an attempt was made to replace SRS and only made it 10% of the way, unless there is a lot I am unaware of?

1. I think not possible yet, but ED stated that an interface for external apps is in the works. I assume this will allows what you are asking for.

2. I guess you are not suppose to change those settings. The options might be visible however, because you can build your own "virtual" radio. Therefore it might be handy to see how the other are configured. That's my guess. I was surprised to see those settigns exposed in Matt wagner's video about it. I'm not on 2.9 yet, so can only guess really...

3. Don't know. What settings would you want to change?

4. I don't know how SRS does radios for FC3, but i think you are supposed to use those "virtual" radios (see #2). Either copy one of the existing ones, or create a completely new one with custom parameters.

5. I think it's not possible at the moment. I just close the interface and use the cockpit-displays... works for organized coop... or at least for me...

6. Won't try to answer rhetorical questions.

Edited October 21, 2023 by twistking

[FusRoPotato]

13 minutes ago, twistking said:

1. I think not possible yet, but ED stated that an interface for external apps is in the works. I assume this will allows what you are asking for.

2. I guess you are not suppose to change those settings. The options might be visible however, because you can build your own "virtual" radio. Therefore it might be handy to see how the other are configured. That's my guess. I was surprised to see those settigns exposed in Matt wagner's video about it. I'm not on 2.9 yet, so can only guess really...

3. Don't know. What settings would you want to change?

4. I don't know how SRS does radios for FC3, but i think you are supposed to use those "virtual" radios (see #2). Either copy one of the existing ones, or create a completely new one with custom parameters.

5. I think it's not possible at the moment. I just close the interface and use the cockpit-displays... works for organized coop... or at least for me...

6. Won't try to answer rhetorical questions.

 

So you maybe know 1 answer for 6 questions that weren't your questions to answer, but tried anyways? Also, you might want to double check the definition of rhetoric.

[twistking]

1 hour ago, FusRoPotato said:

So you maybe know 1 answer for 6 questions that weren't your questions to answer, but tried anyways? Also, you might want to double check the definition of rhetoric.

it's a public forum and  i did not know, those were not mine to answer. your sixths question is a rhetorical question, is it not? honest question (english is not my first language).

ps: i begin to suspect that most of your questions were rhetorical.

Edited October 21, 2023 by twistking

[KCOOL]

Hi everyone.

I would like to share my settings (just after some few hours) and experience. Hopefully is helpful.

System: 13600K air-cooled with IS-67+ PNY 4090 + 32GB DDR4 3600 CL16 Gear 1, in Fractal Ridge. VR with HP G2. Gear 1 memory eliminates stuttering.

My experience with DCS 2.9 is... WOW...

OpenXR Tools Mix Reality 200%, all key DCS settings ultra (except Visib Range high), DLAA, NO DLSS, SSS on of course.

Afterburner 950mV, 2790Mhz, +1000 Memory. FPS limited to 45 FPS with Rivatuner. GPU temps always under 65C.

I run many TAZ, Barthek and CGTC (LucShep) mods. Mods have been a must for me. I get 45 FPS in Syria and Caucasus mods. INSANE CLARITY. SINGLE MISSIONS, Instant Action, no Multiplayer.

Unfortunately DLSS is too blurry for me. MSSAx4 is very very close to DLAA, but DLAA gives better performance.

CPU is not important in VR, my 'simple' air-cooled 13600K can run at 5.6-5.7Ghz (tested, performance 98% single core 13900K), but just at 5.1Ghz CPU timings are 5ms. HT disabled. Temps always under 70C (undervolted -0.125V). Nothing compared to 20ms aprox from GPU. So if you are in VR, save and buy the best GPU you can afford. You do not need top notch CPU and water-cooled stuff. I run an insane PC in a tiny and inexpensive Fractal Ridge (of course, undervolting CPU, GPU and managing temps, but with the same 'stock' performance).

IMPORTANT: USE THE TOOLKIT. CAS 100 gives me the extra sharpening punch for the insane clarity. If you need 2-3 extra FPS, Foveated Rendering is your friend there. Additionally, you can play with colors and other visuals.

I do look forward to Vulkan and a 'usable' DLSS. Current DLSS is not good enough, a pass for me. But we are in the good path. 

Thank you to the modders that share their wisdom and time with the community. Enjoy DCS 2.9. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by KCOOL

[twistking]

2 minutes ago, KCOOL said:

Hi everyone.

I would like to share my settings (just after some few hours) and experience. Hopefully is helpful.

System: 13600K + 4090 + 32GB DDR4 3600 CL16 Gear 1, in Fractal Ridge. VR with HP G2.

My experience with DCS 2.9 is... WOW...

OpenXR Tools Mix Reality 200%, all key DCS settings ultra (except Visib Range high), DLAA, NO DLSS, SSS on of course.

Afterburner 950mV, 2790Mhz, +1000 Memory. FPS limited to 45 FPS with Rivatuner.

I run many TAZ, Barthek and CGTC (LucShep). I got 45 FPS in Syria and Caucasus mod. INSANE CLARITY.

Unfortunately DLSS is too blurry for me. MSSAx4 is very very close to DLAA, but DLAA gives better performance.

CPU is not important in VR, my simple 13600K could run at 5.6Mhz, but just at 5.1Mhz CPU timings are 5ms. Nothing compared to 20ms aprox from GPU.

IMPORTANT: USE THE TOOLKIT. CAS 100 gives me the extra sharpening punch for the insane clarity. If you need 2-3 extra FPS, FVR is your friend there. Additionally, you can play with colors and other visuals.

I do look forward to Vulkan and a 'usable' DLSS. Current DLSS is not good enough, a pass for me. We are in the good path. 

Thank you to the modders that share their wisdom and time with the community. Enjoy DCS 2.9. 

 

Nice! That sounds promising.
What are "TAZ, Barthek? Mods i assume?
Did you also fly in larger, complex missions?

Do i understand it correctly that with 5.1ghz you only have 5ms cpu frametime, so theoretically enough headroom to easily go for 90fps (disregarding GPU)?

Have you tried aiming for 90fps VR and using more aggressive DLSS to get there? You should try, if you haven't. I'm very confident that DLSS will look way better on 90fps, because it basically feeds off temporal information, which 90fps gives plenty. On 45fps the difference between sequential frames is rather large, so more guessing involved. On 90 it should have much less ghosting and better perceived resolution and clarity. In theory: I'm on a potato pc and can't test for myself;)

[KCOOL]

15 minutes ago, twistking said:

Nice! That sounds promising.
What are "TAZ, Barthek? Mods i assume?
Did you also fly in larger, complex missions?

Do i understand it correctly that with 5.1ghz you only have 5ms cpu frametime, so theoretically enough headroom to easily go for 90fps (disregarding GPU)?

Have you tried aiming for 90fps VR and using more aggressive DLSS to get there? You should try, if you haven't. I'm very confident that DLSS will look way better on 90fps, because it basically feeds off temporal information, which 90fps gives plenty. On 45fps the difference between sequential frames is rather large, so more guessing involved. On 90 it should have much less ghosting and better perceived resolution and clarity. In theory: I'm on a potato pc and can't test for myself;)

They are some of the best moders here. Their mods reduce VRAM usage and improve performance. Additionally improve visuals. You can find them in the Mods section of this forum. TAZ textures are a must, better trees, and the Caucasus better textures from Barthek and LuckShep are all very good.

The quality I get now in cockpit is insane. But just 45FPS an NO complex missions or multiplayer...

I have run the 13600K at 5.7Mhz at -0.080V, but at -0.125V 5.5Mhz is the max I got. 4-6ms in Instant Action is typical for me (DCS MT).

At 90 FPS I should reduce rendering to 100% (from current 200%) and pray. I will give it a try, but I doubt I will get 90 FPS. Thank you for suggesting! I am just a noob, trying to get the best performance possible.

Edited October 21, 2023 by KCOOL

[twistking]

35 minutes ago, KCOOL said:

They are some of the best moders here. Their mods reduce VRAM usage and improve performance. [...]

The quality I get now in cockpit is insane. But just 45FPS an NO complex missions or multiplayer... [...]

At 90 FPS I should reduce rendering to 100% (from current 200%) and pray. I will give it a try, but I doubt I will get 90 FPS. Thank you for suggesting! I am just a noob, trying to get the best performance possible.

Ok. Thanks.

Regarding the 90fps: I think it should work with your 4090 (yeah, maybe not with 200% res). My hypothesis is, that 90fps will make DLSS much more usable, which would give you the needed boost to performance in return. Even if you decide that 45fps and DLAA feels better in the end, i would be interested if you feel that DLSS is less blurry on 90 than it's on 45. For Science!!!

[YoYo]

2 hours ago, KCOOL said:

 

IMPORTANT: USE THE TOOLKIT. CAS 100

 

CAS? Can you write more about it? Btw. Do you use Turbo mode too? Yep, noticed the same Btw. DLSS is nice but the quality isnt well in VR, DLAA looks quite nice with good performance (however it gives extra ghosting on the moving objects). Not holy grail here but choices are nice from now.

Edited October 21, 2023 by YoYo

[Qcumber]

2 hours ago, KCOOL said:

I am just a noob, trying to get the best performance possible

Have you tried using Quad Views Foveated rendering instead of OXRTK? It gives a much better performance increase and also implements CAS and turbo. I have increased the centre resolution to 1.5 and this reduces the blurring in DLSS with good performance. 

[shazam253]

2 hours ago, twistking said:

Ok. Thanks.

Regarding the 90fps: I think it should work with your 4090 (yeah, maybe not with 200% res). My hypothesis is, that 90fps will make DLSS much more usable, which would give you the needed boost to performance in return. Even if you decide that 45fps and DLAA feels better in the end, i would be interested if you feel that DLSS is less blurry on 90 than it's on 45. For Science!!!

Yep, I agree, we should test it out. I think in general, you want to limit the FPS though. It started somewhere that if you're CPU bound that DLSS will not be off much help. With allowance for unlimited FPS you'll likely end up CPU bound at some point. So limiting it will likely also help with stutters, as you maintain some overhead for trickier scenes.

BTW, with a 4090 limited to 50 FPS are rarely dropped below that limit in any scenario. However, my science will have to wait till next week, when I'm back home ^^

[KoN]

Last night I tested on two populated servers each one gave me two different experiences. Both using MT.exe .

Seems 2.9 MT is struggling than it did before. With lots of stuttering and  time warps .

Ghosting in DLAA with outside views . 

Could not pan around or zoom  in F2 outside view with mouse . This is in VR . Still testing. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by KoN

[Alireza.kh]

thanks to ED for this great update that has DLSS and FSR. with my setup (AMD 5600X/2070S/144hz 1440p monitor) i had up to 60 fps boost with DLSS options without any problem, except those visual bugs that are already known. it also great to have AA options other than MSAA. nice to see updated AI models and updated Kh-29 family.

bugs that i saw was the ping in scoreboard which is not accurate. also network monitoring like ping, packet loss and data sent and receive are completely missing from performance monitoring menu (Rctrl+pause).

Edited October 21, 2023 by Alireza.kh

[joker62]

First of all a huge THANK YOU for the new 2.9 OB version.

• At present I'm very satisfied. The loading and closing times of sim are much shorter, the fps has improved considerably. I'm trying some new features, such as anti-aliasing, lod factor, etc. I've done some flights with F-14s in the Marianas terrain and I don't encountered any problems.

• I report some informations from my computer, if it's useful to you.

Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770K CPU @ 3.50GHz

RAM 32.0 GB

Win 10 pro 64 bit

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti

• I've a small request. It's possible to add, in the Module Manager, another option, an "update" box for each individual terrain installed (like to already existing enable/disable or remove option). So, when you release a big update, we can choose, by checking the box or not, whether to update the terrain immediately or do it later. Bear in mind that some of us have slow or expensive connections, and this could solve the problem easily, without having to remove the terrain and then reinstall it later. Thanks for your attention.

Antonio.

[Ram69]

The day of the patch was... interesting for me. Was experiencing a lot more frametime spikes and stutter and such, but interestingly things smoothed out the following day (yesterday) and my frametime graph is nice and smooth. 

Performance is mostly good so far (predominantly empty maps), save some framerate dumping in certain parts of Sinai I've never noticed previously, but 2.9 sure does seem to have a preference for my e-cores. Is this representative of what others have been seeing in terms of usage?

I'll get two cores/threads typically pegged at 100% and the majority of the rest of the usage seems to be on my e cores. Removing affinity from affected cores doesn't do anything as that load is simply transferred to two others. Cores/threads 8 thru 11 are the ones that are chosen to get pegged out. Maxed out cores happens even on the main menu. 

As with the previous patch or two, I'm still having issues with  MT dcs exe failing to launch properly about half the time. I just relaunch until it gets a proper load. Never could find any cause. Little disappointed it's persisted with this patch, but it's little more than an annoyance given the easy solution. I do wonder if there's some relation between pegging 2 cores and preferring e cores, though.  

Performance wise, it feels like I'm riding a handicapped line that's easily crossed with any increase in demand above a baseline empty map, while quite a bit is getting left on the table (anecdotal, as that may be). 

EDIT: Oh, and one other thing I've noticed is that the entire "hue" of the screen sometimes changes from normal looking to a less dynamic, washed out, blue'ish tint for a few seconds before flickering back to normal. This has happened on Sinai, I've not done enough of other maps yet to see if it's happening elsewhere. This also comes with occasional black screen flicker. The only new settings I'm using are SSS on and DLAA (instead of previous 2x MSAA). Will continue to tinker with different AA settings and maps to see if this happens more broadly or not. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Ram69

[KCOOL]

5 hours ago, YoYo said:

CAS? Can you write more about it? Btw. Do you use Turbo mode too? Yep, noticed the same Btw. DLSS is nice but the quality isnt well in VR, DLAA looks quite nice with good performance (however it gives extra ghosting on the moving objects). Not holy grail here but choices are nice from now.

CAS sharpens, i have been using it for years with Toolkit. Yes, I am on turbo on. Agreed DLAA is not perfect on moving objects, but good enough with cockpit and terrain. better than dlss (crap now in Dcs). I run dlss Quality in the other nice simulator with much better visuals (i guess the dlss implementation is different). I heard dcs will implement that latest dlss version in a following patch.

What surprises me A LOT is that nobody asks the BIG QUESTION....

When will DCS UPDATE THE ENGINE? THAT IS THE QUESTION... That will improve visuals and performance. We all know the limitations of current DCS engine...

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by KCOOL

[KCOOL]

4 hours ago, Qcumber said:

Have you tried using Quad Views Foveated rendering instead of OXRTK? It gives a much better performance increase and also implements CAS and turbo. I have increased the centre resolution to 1.5 and this reduces the blurring in DLSS with good performance. 

Thank you for the suggestion, I just see it is a new SW from our beloved mbucchia. What are your full settings there?

Edited October 21, 2023 by KCOOL

[daemon1808]

14 hours ago, Qcumber said:

Try pushing the resolution up a bit in VR. This seems to reduce the artefacts and still gives good performance. I use QVFR to increase the centre resolution and it looks pretty good (pico 4 VD godlike, centre at 1.5, edges at 0.4). At native resolution I see black “strings” stretching from aircraft. 

I`ve tried many different scenarios using my PICO 3 VR headset (DLSS in all 4 variants, DLAA, MSAAx2, MSAAx4, de-scaling to below native resolution, scaling to above native resolution, no sharpening, full sharpening, FOVEated, no FOVEated, etc.) and, after all my test during yesterday and today, what I have seen in my case  is this:

- With DLSS or DLAA ON (no matter what other ajustments): Everything is smoother, but up to the point that  little things moving fast (like vehicles, bandits, numbers in cockpit displays, objects in MFD when TPOD slew, etc) seems to be like "under water". They seem that they are a microsecond "lagged" with the reality, and they leave ghost images behind. Just like in those dream sequences in the movies. You can play with all other options to try to reduce this effect up to some point, but it is always present.

So, based in my experience, DLSS/DLAA seems amazing if you just want to fly around and enjoy the flight and views, because everything is smoooooother and performance seems a bit better.. but it is very weird and anoying during combat.

 

- With DLSS and DLAA OFF: Everything is less smooth, but objects are more defined (even with sharpness = 0 ), especially when they are moving. No more "lagged" a microsecond, no more ghost images behind. You can use MSAA or not, or adjust sharpening slider, depending on your preferences (i.e: For me was always MSAAx2 the best option quality/performance)

So, for playing A2A missions and some A2G missions, DLSS and DLAA is a no-no (at least for me)

It is a pitty but, if they are able to avoid the problem with this blurry FC3 HUDs and the ghost images issue, DLSS could be great.

A clue might be that, for full fidelity modules, this problem with the HUD doesn't happen. So maybe in the diference on how they are rendered could be the trick.

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by daemon1808

[Wiggo]

Hmm. My problems seem to be much more higher in Syria map vs others. And that is just in some certain "points" in the map (which even arent so big really, when get in air fly few miles, everything ok more or less (until crossing to samekind of point in map). This got my interest because ->

I trialed it (syria) spring 2023 and did not buy it, because had fps problems in many airfields (noticable reported, later corrected few bugs(?), if I remember correctly?). Ok they were corrected, or at least now augst 2023 trialed syria map again and "oh it works now"->bought it. (those fps problems were gone in august in the syria map) Now the same style of lagging in graphics, just by with some new spices. Or then its just my computer. But cant get my mind out the fact that i had samekind of problems with that map earlier. Does somebody with older gpu reply this?

Edited October 21, 2023 by Wiggo

[YoYo]

57 minutes ago, daemon1808 said:

I`ve tried many different scenarios using my PICO 3 VR headset (DLSS in all 4 variants, DLAA, MSAAx2, MSAAx4, de-scaling to below native resolution, scaling to above native resolution, no sharpening, full sharpening, FOVEated, no FOVEated, etc.) and, after all my test during yesterday and today, what I have seen in my case  is this:

- With DLSS or DLAA ON (no matter what other ajustments): Everything is smoother, but up to the point that  little things moving fast (like vehicles, bandits, numbers in cockpit displays, objects in MFD when TPOD slew, etc) seems to be like "under water". They seem that they are a microsecond "lagged" with the reality, and they leave ghost images behind. Just like in those dream sequences in the movies. You can play with all other options to try to reduce this effect up to some point, but it is always present.

So, based in my experience, DLSS/DLAA seems amazing if you just want to fly around and enjoy the flight and views, because everything is smoooooother and performance seems a bit better.. but it is very weird and anoying during combat.

 

- With DLSS and DLAA OFF: Everything is less smooth, but objects are more defined (even with sharpness = 0 ), especially when they are moving. No more "lagged" a microsecond, no more ghost images behind. You can use MSAA or not, or adjust sharpening slider, depending on your preferences (i.e: For me was always MSAAx2 the best option quality/performance)

So, for playing A2A missions and some A2G missions, DLSS and DLAA is a no-no (at least for me)

It is a pitty but, if they are able to avoid the problem with this blurry FC3 HUDs and the ghost images issue, DLSS could be great.

A clue might be that, for full fidelity modules, this problem with the HUD doesn't happen. So maybe in the diference on how they are rendered could be the trick.

 

 

How did you run DLSS on and DLAA off in the same time? If I take DLSS my AA is greyed with DLAA „on” only, no possibility to change it (VR, 4090).

[Ram69]

36 minutes ago, YoYo said:

How did you run DLSS on and DLAA off in the same time? If I take DLSS my AA is greyed with DLAA „on” only, no possibility to change it (VR, 4090).

It isn't possible to select an AA option with DLSS turned on. They mentioned having DLSS *or* DLAA turned on, rather than both