resolved New spotting is great / New spotting is overcooked feedback thread

[Parkour]

4 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Afaik this never disabled the spotting dots, it just switched between v2.8 and 2.9. But yeah since 2.8 was effectively “off” for high res players it would be good to have back. Of course that means the game is still exploitable online. 

Then at least make it a server option. This effectively has ruined the game in VR for those that don't want to PvP. I honestly can't believe this is occurring.

 

[S-GERAT]

1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

Folks keep the feedback constructive. 

The team will be taking another look, and as mentioned in the patch notes we are working on a way to standardise the dot spotting between devices. 

 

Please, ask for a file to turn It off, or release a hotfix. Last time we have to swallow that damn dots for at least some weeks..  Thanks

[Avenger31]

17 minutes ago, S-GERAT said:

 

Please, ask for a file to turn It off, or release a hotfix. Last time we have to swallow that damn dots for at least some weeks..  Thanks

I don’t think that we would suffer shorter this time, ED will thanks us for “patience and support” and continue to watch us screaming about the same problem for weeks

Edited October 1, 2024 by Avenger31

[Bowie]

Well...

3840x2160/4K...?

Reporting "speck".

In testing in the Instant Action/Normandy map, am now getting a "speck" at 4.5 NM, resolving itself into a  Bf 109 fighter as the range decreases.

This is up from ~ 1.5 NM.

5-Mile visibility w/ WWII fighters?

Outstanding!

 

Thanks DEV for a solution to a 'Uge DSC/WWII problem.

 

Bowie

[gorzasty]

I use Quest 3 2750x2750 per eye and pre patch solution was great. Now big dots are visible from cosmos. Another thing is zoom in VR and visibility of the contacts.

Wysłane z mojego VOG-L29 przy użyciu Tapatalka

[Tippis]

3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

It’s amazing that when 3-4 people complain about something it drives ED to ruin the game for everyone else.

  Well, have you considered not complaining so much, then? That way, actual improvements to the game would be able to go through with much less fuss and your necessity to protect your advantages over other players through constant spam goes away. Everyone wins.

 

2 hours ago, Parkour said:

Then at least make it a server option. This effectively has ruined the game in VR for those that don't want to PvP. I honestly can't believe this is occurring.

That's not really what server options do. They are there to restrict who gets in and why (and to some extent what data leaves the server). They don't change how the game behaves, especially not on the client side.

Mission options (which is probably more accurately what you're asking for) are essentially just gameplay options enforced across all connected clients, but this isn't really a gameplay option so it doesn't properly fit there either. It's a graphics option, and those can't be enforced — it would break too much. But more importantly, turning spotting dots off will create a whole slew of issues that aren't actually better than having them on, such as making planes unrealistically visible at hilariously unrealistic ranges, but only for some players. That might work for those who only play SP, but ruins MP for both PvP and non-PvP players.

This whole thing is occurring because the naïve implementation of spotting through trigonometry alone was by a galaxy-wide margin the worst implementation imaginable. As much as the dots may have their issues as well, they actually solve things, and the way to proceed from there is to tweak them, not to go back to horrible brokenness and unevenly distributed unfair advantages.

[TheFreshPrince]

After the update, I sometimes do not have dots in close proximity, but only when the aircraft is really far out (20nm) (with improved spotting dots on). Sometimes I see them though, pretty strange.

Edited October 1, 2024 by TheFreshPrince

[MoleUK]

Huge improvement on QPro at 2500x2500 with DLAA + Quad view. Spots are not oversized, visible from a good distance.

It's unfortunate that they can't be turned off for those that want them off though.

Edited October 1, 2024 by MoleUK

[PawlaczGMD]

4 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

It’s amazing that when 3-4 people complain about something it drives ED to ruin the game for everyone else. Clearly the majority does not like the giant dots, I can’t imagine who does. Not only that but they’re forced on. How do such decisions get made?

You're saying that as if people complaining here wanted these huge dots forced. My brother in Christ, I had no dots at all before this update. Nobody asked for this, not our fault ED overcorrected so much. And the dots being forced on is clearly a bug. Hopefully we end up somewhere in between these states after more tuning.

[Why485]

2 hours ago, Bowie said:

Well...

3840x2160/4K...?

Reporting "speck".

In testing in the Instant Action/Normandy map, am now getting a "speck" at 4.5 NM, resolving itself into a  Bf 109 fighter as the range decreases.

This is up from ~ 1.5 NM.

5-Mile visibility w/ WWII fighters?

Outstanding!

 

Thanks DEV for a solution to a 'Uge DSC/WWII problem.

 

Bowie

The only difference I've noticed this patch for 2D is that dots are now affected by motion blur, which means you should turn it off to avoid smearing them. For 2D they are otherwise unchanged and in a relatively good place.

Almost all complaints seem to be coming from the VR crowd right now due to the more complex and not as comparable display technology involved.

[SharpeXB]

43 minutes ago, PawlaczGMD said:

Nobody asked for this

And yet here we are

43 minutes ago, PawlaczGMD said:

Hopefully we end up somewhere in between these states after more tuning.

I think what we’ll find is that there’s no way to finesse these. It’s a pixel. It’s either on or it’s off. And at lower resolutions it will appear larger and be too big. A solution hasn’t been found in 7-8 years. 

Edited October 1, 2024 by SharpeXB

[jef32]

ED, people wanting dots can have them in the state they are now if they want, but people not wanting them could have the possibility to disable them. But since the patch, it's not the case whatever the setting. For me in VR with HP Reverb G2, dots are totally unpleasant, big black points moving in the sky. You don't have to work about the dots consistency or making them acceptable for all VR materials. You have to work only on the capacity to switch them on or off. That's all !

[PawlaczGMD]

17 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

And yet here we are

I think what we’ll find is that there’s no way to finesse these. It’s a pixel. It’s either on or it’s off. And at lower resolutions it will appear larger and be too big. A solution hasn’t been found in 7-8 years. 

 

But it's not a pixel, currently it's obviously multiple pixels, hence the new complaints. It's probably dozens of pixels for large targets for me. It's not just on or off. ED can decide how many pixels are rendered at what target distance, size, and aspect, as well as your device resolution and VR/nonVR - all these things can be tuned.

Other, more advanced systems, that are more than a block of pixels, could also be implemented. Again, as a non-VR player, you seem to not have a good idea what the issue even is. 

[SharpeXB]

17 minutes ago, PawlaczGMD said:

But it's not a pixel, currently it's obviously multiple pixels, hence the new complaints. It's probably dozens of pixels for large targets for me. It's not just on or off. ED can decide how many pixels are rendered at what target distance, size, and aspect, as well as your device resolution and VR/nonVR - all these things can be tuned.

Other, more advanced systems, that are more than a block of pixels, could also be implemented. Again, as a non-VR player, you seem to not have a good idea what the issue even is. 

It might be something as simple as 1080p gets one pixel and 2160p gets 4 pixels. That’s actually what it looks like on my screen. The trouble is even a single pixel is too large for a distant target. And there’s only so much finesse possible. What does 1440p get? What do all these other combinations of displays and super sampling get? I don’t think there’s a solution here other than to just scrap the whole concept. Without any dots DCS can replicate RW visibility rather well. Leave the dot enhancement as dot labels where they belong I say. 

[maxTRX]

43 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

It might be something as simple as 1080p gets one pixel and 2160p gets 4 pixels. That’s actually what it looks like on my screen...

This is how I always thought it should have been fixed.  On top of that make the pixels go through different transparencies or shades at extreme distances to full intensity pixels before transition to textures.  That's just my simp brain farting...   Oh, for some easy going folks there are always labels available in any shape or form, some rainbow colored blob with text or no text  

[=475FG= Dawger]

2 hours ago, PawlaczGMD said:

You're saying that as if people complaining here wanted these huge dots forced. My brother in Christ, I had no dots at all before this update. Nobody asked for this, not our fault ED overcorrected so much. And the dots being forced on is clearly a bug. Hopefully we end up somewhere in between these states after more tuning.

Just thought I would post the full quote instead of selectively quoting this.

I just updated today and haven't flown yet. I am looking forward to frickin' YOOOOGE dots, blinking red, white and blue and shooting off fireworks.

Edited October 1, 2024 by =475FG= Dawger

[SharpeXB]

5 minutes ago, oldcrusty said:

This is how I always thought it should have been fixed.  On top of that make the pixels go through different transparencies or shades at extreme distances to full intensity pixels before transition to textures.  That's just my simp brain farting...   Oh, for some easy going folks there are always labels available in any shape or form, some rainbow colored blob with text or no text  

The thing is they could just fix the dot labels to do exactly that and then get rid of the spotting dots. It doesn’t make sense to have two features that are nearly identical. Dot labels can also be turned on or off and controlled as mission settings like they should be. Spotting dots are like forcing labels on for everyone. 

[Branimir76]

I dont care about big ugly dot in VR if somebody wants it.

JUST BRING BACK THE OPTION TO TURN IT OFF. IT DOES NOT WORK ANYMORE.

[admiki]

Constructive feedback is that it sucks.

[PawlaczGMD]

Feedback update from me on Pimax Crystal: yesterday, I was flying without QuadViews due to the stupid new menu tick, so I was seeing things at lower res than normal. (I am normally using 125% in the foveated region, I guess yesterday I was seeing only 100%).

With QV, I think the new dots are actually pretty good. Maybe just a little too big, but comparable with any 2D video of DCS I watch.

So it looks like the dots should be smaller at lower res, and they are just about fine at very high res.

 

Additional note: I noticed that with higher res with QV, tracer fire is significantly less visible. Does anyone else observe this? Not yet sure if this is caused by just resolution, or maybe QV renders some effects differently.

Edited October 2, 2024 by PawlaczGMD

[Joch1955]

Yes, this does not work. I never liked the 2.9 “improved spotting dots” which are too large and can be spotted from too far away. Personally, I turned it off, but now that does not work and we are forced to use unrealistic large dots even with the setting to “off”. I have no problem if some players prefer to use arcade like icons to make their game “easier”, but it should not be forced on the rest of the players. The previous 2.8 “off” settings, while not perfect was much preferable.

This is on VR with a G2. Standard res so any AA, DLSS or DLAA.

Edited October 2, 2024 by Joch1955

[Bowie]

This may be coincidence and subjective, but, in 3840x2160/4K...?

The Options/GamePlay/Improved Spotting Dots On/Off Button appears to be working.

 

The testing in "Instant Action" seems to support it.

And flew several missions w/ an initial climb and join-up leg, some w/ the Button "Off", some w/ the button "On".

Then, when A/C were acquired joining, as "tail-end Charley" Section, the program was paused and the F10 Map ruler was used to measure the distance.

For the "Off" missions, 1.2-1.3 NM was typical.

For the "On" missions, ~ 3.6 NM, even on a late pause, was noted.

And this is for tail view P-51D's, just above or below the horizon.

 

Bowie

[draconus]

18 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Folks keep the feedback constructive. 

Last night test in VR, PD 1.0, DLAA:

F-16 rear aspect turn into a pixel and get faint over 1nmi but at 1.5nmi it becomes black square which then fades away up until around 10nmi where it's barely noticable.

This is both unrealistic and without any sane logic to have a target visible the same for 1nmi and 8nmi or the target to be bigger at 5nmi than at 1nmi!

The same with "Improve spotting dots" option On and Off. Please bring back the option for VR players as it seems it works for some on monitor. I vote for the hotfix!

[MAXsenna]

It works on flatscreen. And it works very well with the dots off it seems. At least for me! One pixel. 30" 2560x1600. The pixel could probably fade out some more. The way it grows when I get closer is pretty good.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[MoleUK]

12 hours ago, Branimir76 said:

I dont care about big ugly dot in VR if somebody wants it.

JUST BRING BACK THE OPTION TO TURN IT OFF. IT DOES NOT WORK ANYMORE.

Until the "off" button works, I'd recommend you install and activate quad view as this reduces dot size significantly.

This was part of the problem with the previous implementation where the very small dots became even harder to spot under quad view. Whereas the current spots almost seem tuned (intentionally or not) specifically for quad view.

Edited October 2, 2024 by MoleUK