resolved New spotting is great / New spotting is overcooked feedback thread

[draconus]

18 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Folks keep the feedback constructive. 

Last night test in VR, PD 1.0, DLAA:

F-16 rear aspect turn into a pixel and get faint over 1nmi but at 1.5nmi it becomes black square which then fades away up until around 10nmi where it's barely noticable.

This is both unrealistic and without any sane logic to have a target visible the same for 1nmi and 8nmi or the target to be bigger at 5nmi than at 1nmi!

The same with "Improve spotting dots" option On and Off. Please bring back the option for VR players as it seems it works for some on monitor. I vote for the hotfix!

[MAXsenna]

It works on flatscreen. And it works very well with the dots off it seems. At least for me! One pixel. 30" 2560x1600. The pixel could probably fade out some more. The way it grows when I get closer is pretty good.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[MoleUK]

12 hours ago, Branimir76 said:

I dont care about big ugly dot in VR if somebody wants it.

JUST BRING BACK THE OPTION TO TURN IT OFF. IT DOES NOT WORK ANYMORE.

Until the "off" button works, I'd recommend you install and activate quad view as this reduces dot size significantly.

This was part of the problem with the previous implementation where the very small dots became even harder to spot under quad view. Whereas the current spots almost seem tuned (intentionally or not) specifically for quad view.

Edited October 2, 2024 by MoleUK

[Bounti30]

It seems that many VR users (me too) are having spotting problems with the last update.
I would like to know what ED thinks about it

[draconus]

1 hour ago, MoleUK said:

This was part of the problem with the previous implementation where the very small dots became even harder to spot under quad view.

Great, so part of the community used mods, had worse spotting because of it, then came to complain and now we have what we have...

[MoleUK]

40 minutes ago, draconus said:

Great, so part of the community used mods, had worse spotting because of it, then came to complain and now we have what we have...

I wouldn't quite define quadview as simply a mod. At this point it's integrated into the game, I think ED understood that it's kind of integral to the future of DCS in VR.

And it wasn't just those using quadview who were unhappy with the VR spotting in the previous patch. Many of us just simply stopped playing because VR spotting felt awful in the last patch. Some felt it was fine, and good for them. But trying to have a single setting that pleases both sets of customers doesn't seem very viable. If you please one, the other will be upset.

I still maintain a client side dot slider (and the ability to turn them off entirely) is the best workable solution atm given all the variance in setups, so hopefully we get there eventually.

There will still be some complaints from a certain % of MP PvP users, but that is a niche within a niche of the overall users, and you literally can't please everyone particularly on this issue.

Edited October 2, 2024 by MoleUK

[gonvise]

31 minutes ago, MoleUK said:

I wouldn't quite define quadview as simply a mod. At this point it's integrated into the game, I think ED understood that it's kind of integral to the future of DCS in VR.

And it wasn't just those using quadview who were unhappy with the VR spotting in the previous patch. Many of us just simply stopped playing because VR spotting felt awful in the last patch. Some felt it was fine, and good for them. But trying to have a single setting that pleases both sets of customers doesn't seem very viable. If you please one, the other will be upset.

I still maintain client side dot slider (and the ability to turn them off entirely) is the best workable solution atm given all the variance in setups, so hopefully we get there eventually.

 

QVFR is not "fully" integrated, ED just put an option to enable and disable it, but you have to have it installed outside of DCS as until now. But I agree that it should be fully integrated and maintained by ED.

[MoleUK]

5 minutes ago, gonvise said:

QVFR is not "fully" integrated, ED just put an option to enable and disable it, but you have to have it installed outside of DCS as until now. But I agree that it should be fully integrated and maintained by ED.

Not fully, but I think things are slowly moving in that direction yeah. Frankly it just makes sense as VR headsets get increasingly higher and higher res. And more and more of them include eyetracking.

Edited October 2, 2024 by MoleUK

[Cab]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

Great, so part of the community used mods, had worse spotting because of it, then came to complain and now we have what we have...

No, it goes well beyond that. I have a reverb G2 with no mods, and I had to reduce my rendering down to 60% in order to see any dots at all.

[SharpeXB]

So it seems the spotting dots are exploitable by just lowering resolution. I thought the whole point of improving these was to eliminate that hack. 

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, MoleUK said:

I still maintain a client side dot slider (and the ability to turn them off entirely) is the best workable solution atm given all the variance in setups, so hopefully we get there eventually.

Trouble is that such a setting would allow these to be exploited online. Which they already can be it appears. That’s the trouble with the whole concept. 

[draconus]

4 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Trouble is that such a setting would allow these to be exploited online. Which they already can be it appears. That’s the trouble with the whole concept. 

It's not exploit or cheat if it's available for everyone.

[MoleUK]

8 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Trouble is that such a setting would allow these to be exploited online. Which they already can be it appears. That’s the trouble with the whole concept. 

There are many exploits that are already used online, there is no avoiding that. Even the anti-cheat is faaaaaar from perfect unfortunately.

I would rather we not base the entire spotting system around a few players who will abuse it. Just let me set it to what I want on my end so I can continue enjoying the game, I don't care if others will abuse it to spot me from further away than they should. Many of them abuse badly modeled radars to already do that lol. And players exploited 1080p spotting for years to do it too.

As I said, there is no perfect solution. There will always be a group of players who are upset with the solution. Sliders upsets the least and pleases the most, imo.

4 minutes ago, draconus said:

It's not exploit or cheat if it's available for everyone.

Yep. I might not like that others would abuse it, but at least I would be able to enjoy the game I bought.

Edited October 2, 2024 by MoleUK

[Cab]

15 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

So it seems the spotting dots are exploitable by just lowering resolution. I thought the whole point of improving these was to eliminate that hack. 

They said they’re working on it

[BIGNEWY]

As mentioned in the change log it is something we will be working on. 

Quote

• Improved Spotting dots.  Adjusted appearance of spotting dots in VR to be close to their previous state. We are looking at feedback. Currently we are working on the advanced functionality for spotting dots rendering which will depend on VR hardware type and its properties which we hope to deliver in future patches to address difference in dots sizes between different VR devices and monitors.

thank you 

[Talisman_VR]

26 minutes ago, draconus said:

It's not exploit or cheat if it's available for everyone.

So all must use exploit/cheat, even if for them them the mad visuals destroy immersion and look alien, or be at a disadvantage.  Not much of a choice. 

We don't seem to get this with other combat flight simulations.

I should add that my perspective is as a keen participant on MP servers for this Digital Combat Sim.  Combat is competitive and I enjoy competition with other human pilots on-line.  The current visuals are not conducive.

Happy landings,

Talisman

Edited October 2, 2024 by Talisman_VR

[SharpeXB]

19 minutes ago, draconus said:

It's not exploit or cheat if it's available for everyone.

But it’s an exploit if anyone can just alter it. Like simply lowering their resolution to make them bigger. 

18 minutes ago, MoleUK said:

There are many exploits that are already used online

Well we certainly don’t need any more. And not ones that are this egregious. Just because some people cheat doesn’t mean giving up on every exploit. 

20 minutes ago, MoleUK said:

I don't care if others will abuse it to spot me from further away than they should.

I think most people do care. 

1 minute ago, Talisman_VR said:

So all must use exploit/cheat, even if for them them the mad visuals destroy immersion and look alien, or be at a disadvantage. 

Right. We don’t want to be forced to decide between looking at an ugly game or being at a disadvantage. 

[draconus]

8 minutes ago, Talisman_VR said:

So all must use exploit/cheat, even if for them them the mad visuals destroy immersion and look alien, or be at a disadvantage.  Not much of a choice.

I very much would like a choice but I don't care what others will choose. I just want realistic visibility like I had in 2.9.7.

[Talisman_VR]

1 minute ago, draconus said:

I very much would like a choice but I don't care what others will choose. I just want realistic visibility like I had in 2.9.7.

I appreciate what you are saying, but I should add that my perspective is as a keen participant on MP servers for this Digital Combat Sim.  Combat is competitive and I enjoy competition with other human pilots on-line.  The current visuals are not conducive.

Happy landings,

Talisman

[Bounti30]

42 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

As mentioned in the change log it is something we will be working on. 

thank you 

thanks for all the job.

I think this is going in the right direction, but until the right setting is found,  we can leave the choice to the user as before.

Today off function does not work.

Edited October 2, 2024 by Bounti30

[draconus]

31 minutes ago, Talisman_VR said:

I appreciate what you are saying, but I should add that my perspective is as a keen participant on MP servers for this Digital Combat Sim.  Combat is competitive and I enjoy competition with other human pilots on-line.  The current visuals are not conducive.

Ah, yeah, I get it now. Your sig pic helped

[Michal]

"Improved Spotting dots" after last update is a huge disappointment for me. I play on Project Overlord WW2 server and these huge blocks are very unrealistic. 

[Cab]

Geez, how many times do they have to say they’re working on it?

Personally, after the performance increases I’m seeing after this last patch, I’m willing to take them at they’re word. 

[=475FG= Dawger]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Right. We don’t want to be forced to decide between looking at an ugly game or being at a disadvantage. 

If the unaided visibility is just as good as real life, you wouldn’t be at a disadvantage against someone using some sort of user customization of spotting dots. 
 

If the only way to make spotting similar to reality is to make the game ugly, perhaps you should focus on why that is instead of worrying about the specifics of spotting dots. 
 

VR and flat earth presentations are fundamentally different and ED is banging their heads against the wall trying to produce a single solution. 
 

Personally, when I am flying a BFM/WVR sortie, I want everyone to see me. I am looking for a fight, not an ambush. I get that isn’t everyone’s cup of tea but hide and seek gets pretty dull. 
 

I still haven’t flown the new update so I don’t know how egregious the dots are but I am hoping to be able to use a higher resolution in VR and be able to see the bandit across my turn circle in high speed fight. 

[draconus]

31 minutes ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

If the only way to make spotting similar to reality is to make the game ugly...

No, it's not the way. If you want to be visible all the time drop some flares or play with labels with your friends. DCS is not only about dogfighting and some rely on being not very visible - esp. helis, low strikers and ground units - but even in knife fight keeping tally is a skill and necessity, not a given.

Edited October 2, 2024 by draconus