DLSS, DLAA, thanks but going back to MSAA

[slughead]

I have tried. Honest, I have. DLSS is a blurry mess. DLAA is a little better, but the smearing of aircraft, yuck. The performance gains are not enough to endure the loss of visual quality. God damn it, I bought a Quest Pro and a 4090, not a 2080 and a Quest 2! Therefore, I am going back to MSAAx4. I was happy with that. The performance was good with most settings maxed out and just shadows toned back a little.

I'm going to fly with my old settings again for a week or so and then perhaps try DLAA or TAA again once I have my baseline back in my head and the hype has died down. I think we all expected a lot from DLSS/DLAA. Sadly, I don't think this is for VR flight sims at this time.

[Rolling]

Using Reverb G2, 13700k, 64GB and 4090, 2.9 is much bestter as before, performance has much improved, maybe because i also change to OpenXR from SteamVR.

 

[motoadve]

Varjo VR with FDR,AMD  7800X3D, DLAA looks amazing, if you can get good performance you wont see smearing of aircraft, Can you get DFR with the Quest? For the Aero that made the difference.

[Hippo]

What sort of performance are you hoping for?  Personally I can't be doing with ASW (whose artifacting I find to be worse than what I'm seeing with DLAA), and aim for native 72 fps.  Here's what I'm currently using and I'm very happy with the quality/performance I've been seeing.

I was using MSAAx4.  The thing with DLAA is that when combined with foveated rendering, there is no shimmering so I can greatly reduce the foveated area for a huge performance improvement.

I'm using PD 1.0 and mirrors on (have mostly been testing with the F-18).  I'm not doing anything else with e.g. Oculus Debug Tool / OpenXR Toolkit.

My quad views foveated config file
 

#
# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE!
# INSTEAD, CREATE A NEW FILE `settings.cfg` UNDER `%LocalAppData%\Quad-Views-Foveated`
#

# Common settings for all headsets (unless overriden below).
smoothen_focus_view_edges=0.2
sharpen_focus_view=0.7
turbo_mode=1

# Fixed Foveated rendering settings for fallback when eye tracker is not available.
horizontal_fixed_section=0.5
vertical_fixed_section=0.45

[Oculus]
peripheral_multiplier=0.4
focus_multiplier=1.1
horizontal_focus_section=0.25
vertical_focus_section=0.25
#vertical_focus_offset=0.28
turbo_mode=0
debug_eye_gaze=0
debug_focus_view=0

[Varjo]
horizontal_focus_section=0.29
vertical_focus_section=0.33
# Turbo mode is incompatible with Varjo's deferred swapchain release. Use OpenXR Toolkit Turbo instead.
turbo_mode=0

[PimaxXR]
# Dynamic Foveated Rendering settings (for Crystal)
horizontal_focus_section=0.33
vertical_focus_section=0.31

[Windows Mixed Reality]
peripheral_multiplier=0.4
focus_multiplier=1.1
# Dynamic Foveated Rendering settings (for G2 Omnicept Edition)
horizontal_focus_section=0.3
vertical_focus_section=0.3
vertical_focus_offset=0.04

[SteamVR]
# Turbo Mode causes unexplained errors with SteamVR.
turbo_mode=0

I notice we have very similar setups, and I'd be interested to see what you think.  I have attached a mission which you might want to try, it puts you in an F-18 low over Dubai with A/P and A/T set so you can just sit back and let the a/c fly the route.  I can hold 72 fps which I didn't think I'd be able to achieve at this level of quality.  If you can achive this sort of performance with better visuals pls let me know.

 

benchmark_01.miz

Edited October 23, 2023 by Hippo

[Sile]

i am using DLSS with DLAA at PD 1.3. Oculus Res Slider full right at 72 Hz.

Sharpening 0.3 plus 65% oxr toolkit CAS.

Very happy. I think trading DLSS performance gain für more supersampling is the key here.

[Dangerzone]

21 minutes ago, Sile said:

i am using DLSS with DLAA at PD 1.3. Oculus Res Slider full right at 72 Hz.

Sharpening 0.3 plus 65% oxr toolkit CAS.

Very happy. I think trading DLSS performance gain für more supersampling is the key here.

I have supersampling a try last night (PD of 1.3). I think there's something to this. Whether it's placebo (and I don't think it is) - it definitely seems to be adding clarify. At present I've dropped back to 60hz (HP Reverb) and have been able to hit 60fps consistently (4090 with some high settings, trees, forest, grass to full, etc) with reasonable overhead available. 

I figure I'll play with it a bit more, and if I think I can hit 90 consistently I might switch over to that, but I have a feeling in order to hit 90 I'm going to have to sacrifice a little bit of detail/forestry/grass/etc. 

 

[Beamscanner]

DLSS is really bad with MFDs...

[RealDCSpilot]

@slughead Try tuning in more SS. Check something around 3400x3400 per eye.

[Qcumber]

6 hours ago, Sile said:

i am using DLSS with DLAA at PD 1.3. Oculus Res Slider full right at 72 Hz.

Sharpening 0.3 plus 65% oxr toolkit CAS.

Very happy. I think trading DLSS performance gain für more supersampling is the key here.

Try pushing it to 1.5. I see a noticable improvement and can still maintain 72 fps in most situations (with QVFR enabled). With a 4090 you should easily cope with this.

[Sile]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Qcumber:

Try pushing it to 1.5. I see a noticable improvement and can still maintain 72 fps in most situations (with QVFR enabled). With a 4090 you should easily cope with this.

Yes, thanks i have already tried that and it looks even a bit better, but i would like to kepp some headroom to always stay above 72 fps (bad weather, many units, whatever). Maybe will try 1.4 ...

Edited October 24, 2023 by Sile

[slughead]

11 hours ago, Rolling said:

i also change to OpenXR from SteamVR

For sure you will see an improvement doing this. I've been running OpenXR for a year or so now.

 

11 hours ago, Hippo said:

What sort of performance are you hoping for?  Personally I can't be doing with ASW (whose artifacting I find to be worse than what I'm seeing with DLAA), and aim for native 72 fps.  Here's what I'm currently using and I'm very happy with the quality/performance I've been seeing.

I was using MSAAx4.  The thing with DLAA is that when combined with foveated rendering, there is no shimmering so I can greatly reduce the foveated area for a huge performance improvement.

I'm using PD 1.0 and mirrors on (have mostly been testing with the F-18).  I'm not doing anything else with e.g. Oculus Debug Tool / OpenXR Toolkit.

I'm of the same/similar mindset as you. I like to configure so that I achieve 72fps in Caucus without going into ASW whilst flying low over a reasonably sized town and turning at max turn rate. I find the F-16 instant action take-off mission is a good test track for me. I too run MSAAx4 and the shimmering is significantly reduced to the point that it isn't distracting.

However, DLSS is a blurry mess for mid to distant objects. DLAA is somewhere between MSAAx4 and DLSS. And that's with render resolution (PD whatever folk want to use) bumped right up.

I haven't tried your track file yet but promise to do so later.

 

8 hours ago, Sile said:

i am using DLSS with DLAA at PD 1.3. Oculus Res Slider full right at 72 Hz.

Sharpening 0.3 plus 65% oxr toolkit CAS.

Very happy. I think trading DLSS performance gain für more supersampling is the key here.

Erm, no. You either use DLSS or DLAA, not both together. Yes, the best visuals are only achieved by increasing the render resolution. But they're still not as good in my opinion.

 

7 hours ago, Beamscanner said:

DLSS is really bad with MFDs...

Exactly.

 

2 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

Try tuning in more SS

Did that. Maxed them out, still not as good visually though. It does improve it, just not enough. Especially with slightly reduced MFD visuals and the fiery Phoenix aircraft.

 

2 hours ago, Qcumber said:

Try pushing it to 1.5. I see a noticable improvement and can still maintain 72 fps in most situations (with QVFR enabled). With a 4090 you should easily cope with this.

Done all that. It's just not good enough for me compared with MSAAx4 and a lower PD.

 

 

As I said in my first message, I'm going back to my original settings to get my personal baseline back in the forefront of my mind. Then I might after a week or so try again with a clear head and the hype has died down.

 

[Sile]

vor 54 Minuten schrieb slughead:

Erm, no. You either use DLSS or DLAA, not both together.

Interesting. I should have read more about DLSS and DLAA beforehand. But got carried away in the optimization game...

I wonder why DCS let's me select both, DLSS and DLAA. Shouldn't one get greyed out if the other is enabled? Or does it get greyed out and I didn't notice?
And I wonder what DCS uses. On the basis of the great performance boost I see with both enabled, i guess it's DLSS.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Sile

[Hiob]

5 minutes ago, Sile said:

I wonder why DCS let's me select both, DLSS and DLAA. Shouldn't one get greyed out if the other is enabled?
 

It is. Once you choose any upscaling, the AA options are greyed out.

[Sile]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Hiob:

It is. Once you choose any upscaling, the AA options are greyed out.

Ok stupid me, thank you. Didn't notice the greyed out DLAA. So I use DLSS with 1.3x upscaling. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Sile

[Qcumber]

3 hours ago, Sile said:

Maybe will try 1.4 ...

That's what I am thinking too. 

2 hours ago, slughead said:

You either use DLSS or DLAA

I think DLSS uses DLAA automatically. DLAA alone is AA without the supersampling. 

[Qcumber]

2 hours ago, slughead said:

Done all that. It's just not good enough for me compared with MSAAx4 and a lower PD.

With a 4090 etc I think you already have optimise settings which is why DLSS does not really give you any advantage. I have a lowly 4070 so I see a big improvement. I suspect if we were able to directly compare our experiences yours would win. 

[Wali763]

I did not use MSAA up to now, only 75% SS in OpenXR with my G2.

Im kind of ok with the shimmering/aliasing I get.

DLSS, DLAA and TAA all give me a blurry mess, but all greatly reduce shimmering.. DLAA also reduces perf noticably (~1ms higher frametime). 2x MSAA retains most the the non-AA clarity, but reduces shimmering to a lesser degree than the three above alternatives. Perf impact of 2x MSAA is way too high, so I did not bother testing 4x.

As the original poster, for  now Im staying with my "old" settings. Will do a retest  at a later time.

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Wali763

[maxsin72]

15 hours ago, Beamscanner said:

DLSS is really bad with MFDs...

Yep, DLSS is totally horrible with MFDs.

Maybe DLSS 3 would be better.

[AdrianL]

1 minute ago, maxsin72 said:

Maybe DLSS 3 would be better.

DCS is using  DLSS 3.5 but without Frame Generation 

See 

 

[maxsin72]

11 minutes ago, AdrianL said:

DCS is using  DLSS 3.5 but without Frame Generation 

See 

 

Thank you for the info, I'm really disappointed with nVidia and DLSS.

[mac22]

On 10/24/2023 at 2:53 AM, Sile said:

i am using DLSS with DLAA at PD 1.3. Oculus Res Slider full right at 72 Hz.

Sharpening 0.3 plus 65% oxr toolkit CAS.

Very happy. I think trading DLSS performance gain für more supersampling is the key here.

giving these settings a try - where are you tuning the pixel density?

[Sile]

VR tab of the settings. „Pixel Density“

Oh and I learned its only DLSS then, since DLAA gets greyed out once DLSS get‘s selected.

vor 5 Stunden schrieb mac22:

giving these settings a try - where are you tuning the pixel density?

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Sile

[Qcumber]

8 hours ago, mac22 said:

giving these settings a try - where are you tuning the pixel density?

Try pushing PD up to 1.5 and try QVFR if you are not already using it. It can produce some very good results depending on your CPU/GPU combination. 

[dburne]

Gave DLAA a try late yesterday. Wow I am sold on this, sim is gorgeous and I see absolutely no shimmering anywhere.

[Burt]

Yeah I gave DLAA a whole week over MSAAx2 and once everything started shaking hands it’s difinitely a slight improvement. No go with the DLSS on this rig. One thing I don’t get is why a lot of folks are using Steam, so many hoops to jump. But yeah DLAA - no sharpening is what my rig likes.