correct as is SA-10 low poly models

[BBCRF3]

in a recent update, the SAM S-300 was updated, but the models presented are noticeably worse than the models presented earlier

The wheels have triangular shapes.The cockpit of the launchers and the Command Post is poorly modeled. However, the same cabin is modeled very well on tractors and on the illumination and guidance radar

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by BBCRF3

[Northstar98]

It's something that's affecting all new models in the new format, under CoreMods\HeavyMetalCore - the B-1B, B-52H, S-3B and S-3B tanker, as well as LPWS are all similarly affected, whereby they appear to be lower quality models than what's shown in promotional material. New models released in the previous .edm format such as the Kh-29L/T, Kh-59M/MK, new BLG-66 etc are unaffected and look to be modelled to perfection (even including animated seeker heads for the Kh-29L/T and -59M).

In this case the Big Bird radar has antenna elements that look as though they're just a flat texture, whereas in the 2.9 short cinematic, they appear to be higher-quality or even 3D:

2.9 cinematic:

In-game:

The shot isn't a perfect recreation and the lighting is obviously totally different, but the Big Bird shown in the 2.9 cinematic clearly has higher-quality elements.

 

The new Tin Shield (on the 40V6M mast), is also quite a bit less detailed than the previous Tin Shield that was released over 2 years ago:

Here's a shot of the previously added, trailer-mounted Tin Shield:

 

And here's a shot of the newly added 40V6M mast-mounted Tin Shield:

 

Here's another shot of the previously added Tin Shield:

And another of the newly added mast-mounted model:

 

The difference in quality and detail should be obvious:

• There's no antenna elements on the feed or sidelobe compensator/IFF antenna (the latter appears to be floating in mid-air).
• There are model holes in the waveguides.
• The turntable and elements of the turntable are quite a bit lower in detail and quality.
• There's missing actuators/links.

What's weird here is that the models shown in these screenshots should be identical - wouldn't it have made more sense to reuse the previously added, higher-quality model, removing the trailer and then adding it onto the mast?

 

Regarding the other models in the new format, there are other examples too:

The B-1B:

Spoiler

As seen in the 2.9 cinematic:

Note the countermeasure dispensers, the 2 circular, beige-coloured antennas and an inlet/vent(?) above the left engines, mirroring what’s seen in the right.
 

Compare that with what's seen in-game:

The same countermeasure dispensers cannot be seen (even if its boundary is present), the 2 circular, beige-coloured antennas are clearly lower quality and 2D and the vent above the left-side engines is missing (the one on the right is present however).

 

As seen in the Sinai map teaser:

Note the same antennas and countermeasure dispensers as before, but also note the presence of the window for the OSO/DSO station. There's another blade antenna above the wing root which looks more detailed and to the rear of the aircraft there's a sponson/blister/bubble for the AN/ALE-50 towed decoy, which looks very smooth, as well as a small, black vent/inlet(?) present.

Compared that to what's seen in-game:

Note how again:

• The countermeasure dispensers aren't present and the area is blank.
• The beige-coloured circular antennas are essentially 2D
• The window isn't present, nor is the small black vent/inlet(?)
• The AN/ALE-50 sponson/blister/bubble/whatever it's called, is much more angular (this probably isn't the best shot, but believe me, in DCS, if you were trace vertically around it, it's less than half a dozen polygons.

S-3B:

Spoiler

As seen in the 2023 and Beyond teaser:

Note the detail on the wing-fold mechanism, the 3D radome for the AN/ALR-76 antennas on the wingtips, as well as the static discharge wicks on the trailing edge of the wing.

Compare that to in-game:

Note the less detailed wing-fold mechanism, the same ESM antennas are now flat and the static discharge wicks are absent. It can't be seen in this image, but there's also model holes in some of the model edges in left wing wing-root, just above the leading edge.

LPWS:

Spoiler

As seen in the 2.9 cinematic short:

Note how the tyres have 3D tread, the rungs and the higher quality thermal-imager.

Compare that to in-game:

Where the same tread on the tyres is now just a texture, the rungs aren't present and the thermal imager is more angular. Also, the woodland camouflage isn't available in-game, only this tan/desert livery.

The same also applies to the B-52.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I don't these models are bad in any way, in normal gameplay these almost certainly won't be noticeable, but they definitely are lower quality and not as detailed compared to both promotional material and existing assets.

Personally, I'm leaning on this being a LOD issue, where it looks like, for whatever reason, the LOD1 model is being used instead of LOD0, but as the new format seems to be a (possibly encrypted) container that the modelviewer can't open (and as there are files needed but cannot be accessed also in the containers, making custom liveries is also impossible).

It would be nice to get an acknowledgement of this though, whether this is in-fact an error or whether it's intentional, as the other thread discussing this same issue (although focusing on the B-1B) also doesn't appear to have been acknowledged yet.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Northstar98
Slightly added more detail to B-1B promotional images, spelling

[tripod3]

And containers with missiles look like rubber dummies

[tripod3]

Hi all, any updates from devs?

[Northstar98]

As of DCS 2.9.1 the models have been updated, but it's only the driver that has been updated (similarly, only pilots of the new AI aircraft models have been updated), everything else is as above.

[BBCRF3]

The driver is not visible because of the curve of the car model. But the tractor is modeled very well

[Northstar98]

3 minutes ago, BBCRF3 said:

The driver is not visible because of the curve of the car model. But the tractor is modeled very well

If you clip the camera through the shield, the new driver model can be seen.

[al531246]

These 'updated' models from ED are a PR disaster. I don't understand who they think they're kidding?

[tripod3]

After update models are still lodded look like.

Edited November 17, 2023 by tripod3

[BigBoss_329]

Correct as is, according to ED, no info on why.

[Northstar98]

Welp, we finally have info on this, the new models are indeed part of a new paid-for product.

Personally, while not the best news, I'd much prefer it work this way (i.e have free, lower-quality assets and paid-for high-quality assets), than to have it work like the WWII asset pack, where non-owners are completely straight-up barred from playing or editing missions or joining servers with even a single asset from it present.

[Hotdognz]

7 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

Welp, we finally have info on this, the new models are indeed part of a new paid-for product.

Personally, while not the best news, I'd much prefer it work this way (i.e have free, lower-quality assets and paid-for high-quality assets), than to have it work like the WWII asset pack, where non-owners are completely straight-up barred from playing or editing missions or joining servers with even a single asset from it present.

How do you know it wont work like that for this new paid high detail DLC yet to be announced ??, also what's next paid upgraded ground AI.

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Hotdognz

[BIGNEWY]

As Nineline has mentioned it is best you wait for more news, when we can we will let you all know details. 

thanks

[Northstar98]

9 minutes ago, Hotdognz said:

How do you know it wont work like that for this new paid high detail DLC yet to be announced ??, also what's next paid upgraded ground AI.

Because the units already exist as free versions, unless this new pack is going to have the high-quality units as completely separate entities, the same unit can be used both for non-owners and owners (the owners will just see a higher-detailed version) - that's just how the game works (and can be seen when it comes to modules or liveries included with paid-for campaigns).

NineLine has however said that this new product will include additional features and not just be a simple asset pack, so that might possibly break things, but on the model and unit side itself it shouldn't.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Northstar98

[AKULA_OPTIMUS]

Those are some  shady practises right there

[Silver_Dragon]

12 minutes ago, AKULA_OPTIMUS said:

Those are some  shady practises right there

"practiques" used by other companies, as ARMA DLCs and others....

[AKULA_OPTIMUS]

Yes, and thats their problem. Do they also tease those improvements for years, and then release them with a lower quality expecting no one will notice, to later say the good product will be a paid one? 

I´m not complaining about the product itself, but the way it was managed, you didn´t even tell us until people started to suspect something was wrong.

[BIGNEWY]

20 hours ago, AKULA_OPTIMUS said:

Yes, and thats their problem. Do they also tease those improvements for years, and then release them with a lower quality expecting no one will notice, to later say the good product will be a paid one? 

I´m not complaining about the product itself, but the way it was managed, you didn´t even tell us until people started to suspect something was wrong.

Hi, we were not ready and still not ready to share news about an asset pack, things can change in development. The models were renewed and were ready for use for free so we released,  as Nineline has said when we are ready to share more news we will. So please keep the feedback constructive, as always you will need to be patient. 

thank you

[AKULA_OPTIMUS]

Oh yes, I´ve been here since Lomac days, patience is something I had to learn, sometimes is hard, but I´m trying my best  

Hope this new thing worths it. Thank you for the info.

[Silver_Dragon]

10 minutes ago, AKULA_OPTIMUS said:

Oh yes, I´ve been here since Lomac days, patience is something I had to learn, sometimes is hard, but I´m trying my best  

Hope this new thing worths it. Thank you for the info.

Someone have here previously from Lomac days... 

[Dragon1-1]

Eh, I don't mind, actually. Going overboard with details that are only seen up close can degrade performance for no good reason. An asset pack is the way to go. Tankers and carrier aircraft are important because they're pretty much in your face, either during AAR on when sitting on deck with you. You're rarely able to get close enough to count rivets on a SA-10, maybe unless you're flying a Russian helo resupplying the site (even then, SA-10 missiles are not usually transported by air).

[Grimes]

11 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said:

"practiques" used by other companies, as ARMA DLCs and others....

Only done in Arma 2. Key factor is that it released at the same time as the DLC with the higher quality assets. Of note the downgrade from that pack was much worse than what we have here, but at the same time that was like 15 years ago. 4k to 2k textures or 200,000 triangles to 100,000 triangles is much less apparent than 512 to 256 textures or 20,000 to 10,000 triangles. 

[norman99]

My big complaint is why are ED spending so much time and resources upgrading models that already exists in DCS, instead of first adding much needed new models to the simulator? The SA-5 comes immediately to mind. Why not develop the Square Pair, Tall King, IFF & Odd Pair radars units so we can deploy this system correctly?

Or, instead of reinventing the wheel, why not just purchase the readily available models and incorporate them into DCS?

Edited November 22, 2023 by norman99

[Northstar98]

On 11/22/2023 at 12:18 AM, norman99 said:

My big complaint is why are ED spending so much time and resources upgrading models that already exists in DCS, instead of first adding much needed new models to the simulator?

Meh, personally, I'd rather get what we already have up to the same, common standard before adding completely new models for completely new units. Though there are some really glaring omissions.

On 11/22/2023 at 12:18 AM, norman99 said:

Why not develop the Square Pair, Tall King, IFF & Odd Pair radars units so we can deploy this system correctly?

We have the Square Pair, but the P-14F is sorely needed (and heck, the S-75 is also missing its appropriate search radar - the P-12/P-12M/P-18) and hey, how about adding the P-37 and PRV-11 as units we can spawn? The models for those are already decent enough, they're both very prolific and widely used radars and they've been non-functional eye-candy since forever.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Northstar98

[79Au]

Yeah where's the missing radars for the SA-5, ED? Another paid asset pack?