How do you like DLSS?

[Qcumber]

I have done some more testing today as I have been basing my DLSS experience with testing done with my Pico 4. I have had a QP for about 2 weeks so it makes sense to try again. My findings are surprising. I should probably do this scientifically, but for now i will just summarise my findings. All settings are the same other than AA and SS methods. 

DLSS vs DLAA (quality):

- FPS is about 5-10 fps faster with DLSS. Not much but it can make a difference in terms of maxing out FPS and maintaining the minimum over cities etc. 

- The image is slightly blurred with DLSS vs DLAA (expected). This is not a huge difference. All dials etc. are all still readable. Distant buildings look better with DLAA. 

- Contrast is higher with DLSS which does not look as good as DLAA but can be corrected a bit with reducing contrast in OXRTK. The lower contrast makes for a more natural look, particularly for distance. 

- AA is very good with both DLSS and DLAA. Much better than MSAA x4

- The “melting” effect is the same with DLSS and DLAA which is annoying. This is better with the latest version of DLSS though. 

DLAA vs MSAA x4

- FPS very similar; about 2-5 lower with MSAA

- AA better with DLAA

- Less movement artefacts with MSAA

- MSAA looks more “artificial”. I don’t know how to describe it but it does not look as natural as with DLAA. 

DLAA vs TAA

- TAA produces similar AA to DLAA

- TAA produces a blurred image worse than with DLSS which is not easily corrected with sharpening. 

- I don’t see TAA as a serious option. 

Overall, I am not sure which of DLSS or DLAA is the best option. I need to use them both more in the “real world”

[Eaglewings]

Marketing gag or not, for some players it did bump framerate enough NOT to have to buy next overpriced NV cards anytime soon and that in itself makes it worth it. But, as "there's no free lunch", some visual degradation is always a price to pay.
It's all subjective - for some guys it's OK to play at 30-few fps as long as eyecandy is up. I don't understand it but hey, you do you. Just like i don't understand folks who just MUST have 120+ fps and are willing to settle for compromised visuals to get there. But it's their personal preference so - none of my business in the end.
I don't use DLSS (yet), 'cause I'm still keeping my head above the 60-surface in simple missions. Will see how it goes once I start playing Reflected's campaigns. I did embrace DLAA, however, which finally killed everlasting shimmering in DCS once and for all, while not sinking my framerate like MSAA did.

DLAA rescued the long battle with shimmering for me too. And this at no noticeable cost in performance.


Sent from my XQ-AT52 using Tapatalk

[zildac]

what are your dlaa ingame settings? tried dlaa, the result was not usable - unreadable panels and ddi's also ghosting. And what about the performance impact? is there a feelable impact between dlaa and for example 2xmsaa?

It's simply enabled and sharpening is set to . 3 no DLSS. I see no noticeable performance impact or any ghosting on the DDIs / MFDs in the Harrier or Hornet.

[twistking]

in theory DLSS/DLAA could be negatively affected by openXR tubo mode, since i assume that reliable and precise frame time prediction are needed to minimize blurring from inaccurate motion vectors.
might be worth to test for those seeing a lot of blur.

[bfr]

Its impressive in terms of frame rate boost but also obviously not a free lunch. The slightly less crisp cockpit text I could just about cope with but (and its a while since I last tried it so it might've been fixed since) the ghosting/smearing in external views was a complete no-no.

[LOW_Hitman]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb zildac:

It's simply enabled and sharpening is set to . 3 no DLSS. I see no noticeable performance impact or any ghosting on the DDIs / MFDs in the Harrier or Hornet.

Thank you! I tested it yesterday - DLAA with your settings against MSAA 2x - no perfomance increase when switching to DLAA from MSAA2x - picture is "a little" less sharper compared to msaa. So for the while i'll use Msaa 2x because its a good picture and the framerate is good. (between 45 and 75 depanding on the situation and map)

vor 12 Stunden schrieb twistking:

in theory DLSS/DLAA could be negatively affected by openXR tubo mode, since i assume that reliable and precise frame time prediction are needed to minimize blurring from inaccurate motion vectors.
might be worth to test for those seeing a lot of blur.

thnx for that hint! Ill test it today and give it a try! Iam using the turbo mode - whould be great if this is a fix for the blurry textures.

[Qcumber]

16 hours ago, twistking said:

in theory DLSS/DLAA could be negatively affected by openXR tubo mode, since i assume that reliable and precise frame time prediction are needed to minimize blurring from inaccurate motion vectors.
might be worth to test for those seeing a lot of blur.

That's a good point. I had not considered that. I'll give it a try. 

Edit: I tried it and unfortunately no noticeable difference. Oh well, hopefully it will get better with next DLSS release. 

Edited January 12 by Qcumber

[draconus]

I tried DLSS, all quality settings, even performance - just for laugh - fps impressive but poor quality.

My main gripe gfx wise was the constant shimmering in DCS. I thought I'll never see smooth image until MSAAx16 or PD 3.0 with 5090 but then...

Enter DLAA - no shimmering at all - so it's my setting now. I can live with some ghosting, smearing here and there, I'm used to it anyway since I got into VR and its reprojection/ASW.

Edited January 12 by draconus

[Qcumber]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

I tried DLSS, all quality settings, even performance - just for laugh - fps impressive but poor quality

In my experience I don't think it's poor quality as such. Comparing DLSS and DLAA it is obvious that DLAA is better, but you would expect that. It is sharper and has a more natural look, but the difference is not massive and in the middle of a dogfight it's not really noticeable at all. 

[virgo47]

I also ended with DLAA only. There is no comparison with MSAA in quality, but the performance is better, so I bit the bullet. DLSS ghosts like crazy, various scenarios, external views with contrasty things especially, I decided to avoid it. I don't understand why it does ghost though, I thought it was used for upscaling and not for frame generation - but there is little to no control (only on/off) for it, so I don't know.

DLAA is bearable and a reasonable compromise for better performance. (RTX 3060 here, so that may be a factor too.)

[Qcumber]

Just now, virgo47 said:

I also ended with DLAA only. There is no comparison with MSAA in quality, but the performance is better, so I bit the bullet. DLSS ghosts like crazy, various scenarios, external views with contrasty things especially, I decided to avoid it. I don't understand why it does ghost though, I thought it was used for upscaling and not for frame generation - but there is little to no control (only on/off) for it, so I don't know.

DLAA is bearable and a reasonable compromise for better performance. (RTX 3060 here, so that may be a factor too.)

I find that the ghosting and smearing is about the same between DLSS and DLAA. The only difference I can see is that DLSS gives a small improvement in FPS but a slight blurring. In what situations to you most often see the artifacts? I see these only with fast moving aircraft. 

[virgo47]

1 hour ago, Qcumber said:

I find that the ghosting and smearing is about the same between DLSS and DLAA. The only difference I can see is that DLSS gives a small improvement in FPS but a slight blurring. In what situations to you most often see the artifacts? I see these only with fast moving aircraft. 

In my case, DLAA introduced a lot of blur for rotary elements and textures and perhaps a bit of ghosting, but DLSS added much more. When I looked outside in a mission with gates (I know, who cares about gates!) and looked around, the gates ghosted like crazy. Without DLSS (DLAA only), this type of ghosting went away. But then, perhaps we all see different things with different cards, etc. I don't know. It's no silver bullet for sure.

[draconus]

1 hour ago, Qcumber said:

In what situations to you most often see the artifacts?

F-14 HSI/TID

[wilbur81]

On 1/11/2024 at 11:44 AM, Art-J said:

What settings  ? It's just ON and that's it. Seriously though, I'm 1440p pancake player, so my options would not help you I'm afraid.

Sharpening on 0, 'cause I don't use DLSS anyway. I don't own any modern jet modules so can't comment on panels, HUDs and all these gadgets. There's some ghosting on steam gauges and planes flying around, but it's acceptable for me.

Heads up, though, you might want to try dll library for DLSS provided by NVidia. Apparently it's newer version than the one implemented by ED in current DCS and some guys report ghosting reduction when they use this one instead of original. As always, keep a backup just in case. Details here:

 

 

I did give this nvngx_dlss.dll update a try today. It may be placebo only, but it did seem to bring the ghosting down a few notches for me. It still is evident, but seemingly less so. 

[Qcumber]

5 hours ago, virgo47 said:

In my case, DLAA introduced a lot of blur for rotary elements and textures and perhaps a bit of ghosting, but DLSS added much more. When I looked outside in a mission with gates (I know, who cares about gates!) and looked around, the gates ghosted like crazy. Without DLSS (DLAA only), this type of ghosting went away. But then, perhaps we all see different things with different cards, etc. I don't know. It's no silver bullet for sure.

That's useful, thanks. When you say "rotary elements" do you mean fixed wing roling or rotary wing? As you say it varies so much depending on hardware. I have played with lots of settings but I can't make the ghosting/blurring any better. They are the same with DLSS and DLAA. 

[virgo47]

1 hour ago, Qcumber said:

That's useful, thanks. When you say "rotary elements" do you mean fixed wing roling or rotary wing? As you say it varies so much depending on hardware. I have played with lots of settings but I can't make the ghosting/blurring any better. They are the same with DLSS and DLAA. 

Sorry for not being clear - rotary elements in the cockpit like rheostats, knobs, etc. Complicated textures moving quickly.

[Qcumber]

7 hours ago, virgo47 said:

Sorry for not being clear - rotary elements in the cockpit like rheostats, knobs, etc. Complicated textures moving quickly.

Thanks. I understand now. I have not noticed that with rotary switches. I'll take a closer look. 

[virgo47]

3 hours ago, Qcumber said:

Thanks. I understand now. I have not noticed that with rotary switches. I'll take a closer look. 

This may depend on the plane, textures of the elements, particular settings, etc. An example is in this video (DLSS+DLAA). And it may get better with DCS updates, I don't know.

[Qcumber]

1 hour ago, virgo47 said:

This may depend on the plane, textures of the elements, particular settings, etc. An example is in this video (DLSS+DLAA). And it may get better with DCS updates, I don't know.

The only ghosting I see in the cockpit is on the f-16 display with the radar sweep which I don't mind. There is no ghosting on dials, levers or gauges. Maybe it's VR vs 2d!?

Overall I think I will use DLAA but mainly because it does a good job of AA and is a lot clearer that DLSS. 

[Tetra]

Another huge element that contributes to the ghosting effect (aside from ensuring there is sufficient resolution data to calculate from) is your fps. Probably not so much of an issue for pancake players, however in VR utilizing DLAA or DLSS without sufficiently high frame speed, for example with ASW or SSW on, exacerbates the issue greatly. It's highly noticeable say at 36/45 fps when ASW kicks in vs 72 or 90 fps, where it's a lot more subtle.

[Qcumber]

18 minutes ago, Tetra said:

It's highly noticeable say at 36/45 fps when ASW kicks in vs 72 or 90 fps, where it's a lot more subtle

Ghosting, yes. That's just a frame rate thing and pretty much disappears at 72 fps. However I have not seen any difference in the "melting" effect with fps. One of the quick missions I notice this in most is the Marianas lagoon island patrol. The Zeros look like that are bleeding tar. This effect is the same with ASW 45 and at 72 FPS. 

Edited January 13 by Qcumber

[Tetra]

38 minutes ago, Qcumber said:

Ghosting, yes. That's just a frame rate thing and pretty much disappears at 72 fps. However I have not seen any difference in the "melting" effect with fps. One of the quick missions I notice this in most is the Marianas lagoon island patrol. The Zeros look like that are bleeding tar. This effect is the same with ASW 45 and at 72 FPS. 

 

Yeah I guess in that situation the frame rate isn't helping much and it's the reduction in resolution data (as the planes are at a greater distance from you) instead. I guess higher frame speeds are more noticable in the cockpit, for example the F18/F16 mfds or the fuel rate indicator on the F16 when throttling up and down.

[Mogster]

On 1/11/2024 at 1:37 AM, diego999 said:

If your rig is powerful enough to produce high FPS with MSAA 4x, obviously you've got nothing to gain with DLSS.

Aye. “Theres no such thing as a free lunch” comes to mind.

[SharpeXB]

DLSS is definitely an oversold hype train. It’s like any other graphic setting though. You’re trading quality for performance. Whether this is preferable or not is just a matter of taste. IMO if you can get a good 60 FPS without it, you'd do better to leave it off. 
Personally I like the DLAA in DCS. With a little sharpening added it looks great and eliminates the flickering and jaggies you can still see even in 4K with 4x MSAA. 
DLAA in other games looks terrible but the DCS version looks great to me. 

[Alireza.kh]

my experience with DLSS (and DLAA) was not good too and i decided to switch back to MSAA. yes it increase FPS but the implementation was so weak in DCS. i saw these problems:

-general Ghosting and Smearing in different areas. in displays, instruments, external views, objects etc.

-texture flickering in different parts of modules even those that are new. in helicopters this one combined with the movement of shadows of blades will make things even worse.

-and performance increase exist in empty missions with low amount of units. when engine's problems show themselves after that not that much performance increase.  

DLSS in DCS needs further optimizations and tweaks.