reported HARM Missiles not coming off rail

[cptmrcalm]

I was chasing an F18. Had 4 Harms, 1 HTS pod, 4 AIM120s and 1 Tank.

To catch him, I decided to drop 2 Harm's (in board stations) and the single tank.

 

Fired all of my AIM120s and turned away.  

No hung stations. No damage. No issues.

 

Selected the HARMs to tackle a HAWK site a little later. As always, I have the HARMS in POS mode. Using the HTS pod, I select the HAWK and get a good return. 2 from 3. Time to fire. 

 

Nothing. Huh? select it again. Nothing. 

 

Check in air to ground mode, check systems. Nothing. Select again, and switch the other screen to the WPN screen to make sure the HARM is indeed on. It is. 

 

Interestingly, the HARM changed itself to the default mode when you first power it on. (with the cross hairs). Changed it back to POS mode. Fire. Nothing. 

 

Make sure target is locked and repeat. Nothing. HARM back to default state. 

 

Any ideas?

 

Landed thereafter. Rearmed with same loadout and took off and was able to fire all 4 HARMS at the HAWK site no issues. POS mode using the HTS pod. (confirming the stations were fine even though I had no warning lights)

 

Very weird. Could only be a bug. 

[Nedum]

Hi,

 

afaik the F16 can carry 4 HARMs but can only fire the ones of the inner stations. But I can be wrong. ;)

[cptmrcalm]

I heard that too.. but thats not the case.

 

Thats why I mentioned my last about rearming with 4 and going back out.

 

I suspect a bug with dropping the 2 HARMS and keeping the other two. 

[rob10]

A track file showing this happen would be very helpful to diagnose.  Often it's a very simple step that you missed that time around that prevented things from working.

[Furiz]

1 hour ago, Nedum said:

Hi,

 

afaik the F16 can carry 4 HARMs but can only fire the ones of the inner stations. But I can be wrong.

It can fire all 4,

the assumption was that it can fire the ones on outer stations. But after ED has done research the assumption was proven wrong.

 

Yes we need track file of that happening.

 

[Moonshine]

Depends on how the pylons are restricted via the mission editor. ED implemented an option in the ME a while back that would let mission makers choose to „disable“ the inner stations to be used for firing harms (but can still carry). Trackfile would help

[cptmrcalm]

Hi guys.

I have had this happen before, but assumed it was me. I did check that previous track file before and saw that I had done nothing wrong. I will check this one and see if I did. Not sure how I could have done because all systems were set and were not changed.

This issue may well be related to another I have seen. Happens 1 in every say... 40 flights or so. Again, related to having dropped stores. 

 

You have 3 modes on the HOTAS switch. (same on Warthog and Cougar -one above the china hat). One mode "dogfight mode" or "AAM" mode. Then NAV mode. Now in NAV mode, you can hit the AA switch or AG switch on the ICP. When in AA mode, you get the aim120 HUD symbology confirming it. Switching forward on the HOTAS selector switch and you come from NAV (AA) mode to AA mode.

 

Sometimes, I go to fire the aim120 and nothing comes off the rail. I switch back to NAV (AA) mode from AA mode and back again and the missile comes off.

 

In the early days that used to get me killed. Its a "funny" that nobody seems to have the answer to and this switching back and forth fixes it.

 

I will just check I wasnt somehow still in SJ mode (despite coming out of it) when I tried to fire the HARMS.

 

 

[Exorcet]

I thought the AMRAAM issue had been fixed but I encountered it recently too. Haven't had an issue with HARMS though.

[NineLine]

8 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

I thought the AMRAAM issue had been fixed but I encountered it recently too. Haven't had an issue with HARMS though.

Please keep on topic, if you are having another issue, create a new thread with tracks, thanks. 

On 2/11/2024 at 5:04 AM, cptmrcalm said:

I was chasing an F18. Had 4 Harms, 1 HTS pod, 4 AIM120s and 1 Tank.

To catch him, I decided to drop 2 Harm's (in board stations) and the single tank.

 

Fired all of my AIM120s and turned away.  

No hung stations. No damage. No issues.

 

Selected the HARMs to tackle a HAWK site a little later. As always, I have the HARMS in POS mode. Using the HTS pod, I select the HAWK and get a good return. 2 from 3. Time to fire. 

 

Nothing. Huh? select it again. Nothing. 

 

Check in air to ground mode, check systems. Nothing. Select again, and switch the other screen to the WPN screen to make sure the HARM is indeed on. It is. 

 

Interestingly, the HARM changed itself to the default mode when you first power it on. (with the cross hairs). Changed it back to POS mode. Fire. Nothing. 

 

Make sure target is locked and repeat. Nothing. HARM back to default state. 

 

Any ideas?

 

Landed thereafter. Rearmed with same loadout and took off and was able to fire all 4 HARMS at the HAWK site no issues. POS mode using the HTS pod. (confirming the stations were fine even though I had no warning lights)

 

Very weird. Could only be a bug. 

We need a track please, without one we cannot determine what is happening for you. Thanks. 

[itn]

3 hours ago, Moonshine said:

ED implemented an option in the ME a while back that would let mission makers choose to „disable“ the inner stations to be used for firing harms (but can still carry).

Where? How? I see nothing in ME payloads/restrictions or in the "..." (Aircraft Additional Properties). Sure, you can disable HARMs altogether from those stations, but nothing about carry-only HARMs.

[rfxcasey]

The solution is...

Fly a Hornet.

[Moonshine]

24 minutes ago, itn said:

Where? How? I see nothing in ME payloads/restrictions or in the "..." (Aircraft Additional Properties). Sure, you can disable HARMs altogether from those stations, but nothing about carry-only HARMs.

it is only done via payload restriction, never used it, dont know if that even allows you to load them or not at all. there was a massive discussion years ago about 4 harms for the viper or only 2.

can read it here: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/245426-4-harms-for-the-viper/

and this was the final conclusion (when payload restriction option was introduced);

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/209147-viper-mini-updates/?do=findComment&comment=4769196

 

Edited February 12 by Moonshine

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

4 minutes ago, rfxcasey said:

The solution is...

Fly a Hornet.

Thanks, I needed a good laugh 

[itn]

3 minutes ago, Moonshine said:

it is only done via payload restriction, never used it, dont know if that even allows you to load them or not at all. there was a massive discussion years ago about 4 harms for the viper or only 2.

can read it here: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/245426-4-harms-for-the-viper/

 

Yeah, no. ED has changed their stance back and forth on having 2 or 4 HARMs. What we have is simply a 4 HARM capability and no additional "carry only" restrictions available. "Payload Restrictions" allows you to restrict per station, but no restrictions on firing them if you got them.

[cptmrcalm]

great stuff. like i say, i need to get a moment to find and look at the track file myself. 

I am not so proud that if it ends up being something silly I have done - I will report it. But the aim120 and the harm are the same issues here. So I don't think Excorcet was raising a separate issue necessarily.

The AIM120 issue was sort of known and generally accepted. I would often here: "yes,  you just need to switch to NAV and come back to AA mode again" over the radio when screaming: "I CANT FIRE! I CANT FIRE!!" lol....

 

 

Edited February 13 by cptmrcalm

[darkman222]

Did you try to create a mark point before? In that case the HAD page shows SOI  but in fact is not unless mark point creation menu is cancelled on the DED.

I have created a bug report about it. If that happens again, try to cancel everything you have on the DED. Or try to use HAS mode on the Harm and see if it fires that way.

 

[cptmrcalm]

Hi guys. Sorry for the late reply. 

 

I did another test. Wanted to send over a shorter track file for you. I'm glad I was able to replicate the problem. The remaining 2 HARMS do indeed remain hung and do not fire. 

 

You'll notice too that the HARM systems keep reverting back to default. 

 

IMPORTANT. Remember, you can happily fire off all 4 harms if you do not drop stores.

 

Also. A side note. 

I would have assumed that jettison the harms would have them simply falling off the rail. However, they fire off. I dont think that is realistic? I would be surprised if it is.

 

F16 harms not leaving rail.trk

[Lord Vader]

Hello @cptmrcalm

Thank you for your track. I will take a look.

As for HARMs jettisoning by firing like rockets, yes, that's realistic. They are fired unarmed and with inactive seekers. The only way to "drop" them in a free fall is to jettison the rack itself. This is by design.

[Lord Vader]

Hi again.

I was able to reproduce the issue and reported it internally. Thanks for your support.