So, is it cheating to use Zoom when flying DCS?

[Aronis]

I have been watching videos of various pilots and find that using the Zoom is VERY helpful but isn't that kinda Cheating??? We can't zoom in real life...

 

Mike

[AndyJWest]

We can't pull 9G while sitting in an office chair in front of a monitor either...

[Aronis]

7 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

We can't pull 9G while sitting in an office chair in front of a monitor either...

LOL.  true.   but flying the sim at that speed is not necessarily cheating, you'll just break the plane,  zooming your eyes will cause one to fall out.

 

Mike

[Slippa]

Our eyes have to zoom in and out all the time. To quote dear old Mrs Merton “Let’s have a heated debate” 

[Rudel_chw]

47 minutes ago, Aronis said:

 Zoom is VERY helpful but isn't that kinda Cheating??? We can't zoom in real life...

In real life we have much better eyesight than DCS can represent, so to me zoom is not a cheat but actually a compensation  

[Dangerzone]

There is no correct answer to this question, because everyone's reason for flying DCS will be different to the next - and all will have valid reasons to justify their opinion based on their 'world view' of how they use DCS or how much they project their view upon others with similar expectations. 

Factors related to what monitor size and resolution, (vs VR), to GPU capability, to purpose for flying DCS, etc will all add variables to this question. 

For example - by definition, a cheat would be something that's not in the game that some people have added to give themselves an advantage that other people don't have access to. With that definition, no - zoom is not a cheat as it's available to everyone. 

But using a similar definition someone could argue a 70" monitor/TV running 4K and a 4090 GPU is a 'cheat' for the person who's playing on a 22" monitor with a 2060 at 1080p - and I doubt few would say that's a cheat either, as DCS allows for different resolutions, and PC's allow for different sized screens and peripherals. 

FWIW - the more features DCS can have that counter for the fact that we're missing out on stuff compared to real life (which includes resolution of eyes vs monitors, etc), the better. 

Honestly though -when people start going on about 'cheats' or unfair advantages in DCS because someone does something differently, or has access to different peripherals to what they do, they lose me real quick. (Not saying that's what the OP has done- but I've seen others argue against workarounds to graphical issues in VR because they already complain that having VR is an unfair advantage and get worked up on little things). 

Edited April 24, 2024 by Dangerzone

[diego999]

How could a stock function of the game itself and available to anyone be a cheat?

[Tom Kazansky]

4 hours ago, Aronis said:

We can't zoom in real life...

Darn cheater!

 

[Mars Exulte]

No, because your approximate perspective with a monitor, field of view, and the level of detail you can perceive, are not even remotely close to accurate (barring certain extreme examples or VR). ''Zooming'' is effectively adjusting to a more realistic fov temporarily so you can see, unfortunately this has the effect of looking at the world through a cardboard tube with no peripheral vision or fine control and thus impractical for ''normal usage''.

If you have a 180 degree projector setup, or perhaps multiple very large monitors carefully positioned and a fine tuned FoV, then your view is ''realistic''. Otherwise, you have to bounce between ''greater detail'' and ''greater awareness''. Itself also a skill, technically, as if you spend too much time in one over the other you're apt to miss critical moments.

Gaming is a matter of balancing compromises and workarounds in acknowledgment that what you are doing, is in fact not real, nor are your means of interacting with the virtual world.

[Aronis]

Interesting conversation.

A little zoom to compensate for the difference in resolution 'screen' vs 'real life vision' makes sense, but zooming in to see a tank on the ground from 12,000 feet may be questionable.   I just found that the 'realism' is affected by extreme zoom.  I am trying to concentrate on using the instrumentation rather than visual zoom.  Of course the F10 map is another 'cheat' LOL.

When you are using the radar to tag another plane that is miles away, and have a green box around it, you then can actually see the plane at great distances without a zoom. I have a 32 inch 4k monitor so certainly higher resolution helps.  But finding that plane at that same distance without the radar help is a different thing.  So a little help with zoom makes sense.   But zooming in to see the plane's weapon load and eye color of the pilot may be a bit of cheating. LOL.

The huge 4 k screen setup I think compensates more for the user's actual vision than for the simulation vision as the pixels are bigger but at a greater viewing distance the image represented on that huge monitor vs a smaller 4k monitor closer to you is the same.  A huge 8k monitor certainly would effect this and your wallet. 

Mike

 

[Aronis]

nullIMG_7562.pdf

So if I have this next to me when I am flying, I'm ok?  LOL

 

Mike

[Hiob]

The main problem with zooming in and out in 2D is that it messes up the scale of the environment and makes judging distances very hard. 

Not a big problem in jets, but I find it has a negative impact on helicopter flying. I prefer to keep my fov mostly constant.

When the fov gets to big (as you can often see in youtube videos) it starts warping the picture (fish eye effect). That I find very unpleasant. So basically triple digit fovs are off limits for me.

Zooming in is ok sometimes (like squinting your eyes).

[SharpeXB]

In order for what you see on the screen to be a realistic size you’d need quite a narrow FOV, too small to be practical in a game like this. In reality we have 200d of peripheral vision. At that angle everything on your screen would be distorted. So the only option in the game is to zoom in and out. 
Then there’s the issue of resolution. Imagine trying to read the 20/20 line on this eye chart placed out 10’ away on the wing of your plane in the game. Chances are you’d need to zoom in fully to duplicate what you’d be able to read IRL. And reading this is required for being a fighter pilot. So…
https://www.hves.com/wp-content/uploads/snellen-chart.pdf

1 hour ago, Aronis said:

zooming in to see a tank on the ground from 12,000 feet may be questionable.

The long range pipper on the A-10 gun reticle is 12,000’ so that’s not the extreme range you think it is. 

[Slippa]

10 hours ago, Aronis said:

null IMG_7562.pdf 14.18 MB · 5 downloads

So if I have this next to me when I am flying, I'm ok?  LOL

 

Mike

Better yet, send them to me . Can’t decide if I want the lens or the camera more, both very nice and would go straight in my camera bag. At a push, I’ll take the lens. Bit of an improvement on my 100-400L . Having those is cheating, yes.

[Beirut]

At my age zoom is juuuuust fine, thank you. 

[Slippa]

I know the feeling. 50+ it all went a bit blurry. 

[Shrimp]

In my opinion the zoom function should be replaced by simulated binoculars (correct model for the aircraft timeline) that a real pilot would take onboard.

Historically, many aircraft/pilots did carry them for search and ID purposes.

Edited April 25, 2024 by Shrimp
Typo, expanded text.

[Beirut]

49 minutes ago, Shrimp said:

In my opinion the zoom function should be replaced by simulated binoculars (correct model for the aircraft timeline) that a real pilot would take onboard.

Historically, many aircraft/pilots did carry them for search and ID purposes.

 

 

As an option sure.

 

But hands off my zoom function! And my Geritol. 

[Aronis]

Ok, you convinced me, so how can I Zoom and get back to the beginning level of zoom?  I usually have to futz around with it to get the FOV I had originally.  Is there a hot key?

Mike

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, Shrimp said:

In my opinion the zoom function should be replaced by simulated binoculars (correct model for the aircraft timeline) that a real pilot would take onboard.

Historically, many aircraft/pilots did carry them for search and ID purposes.

Zoom isn’t meant to simulate binoculars. It’s the method of replicating real life visual acuity and FOV on a computer screen. Binocs also magnify to a much greater degree than the zoom view. Plus on a normal sized screen zoomed-in is more like a realistic size than zoomed out.

26 minutes ago, Aronis said:

Ok, you convinced me, so how can I Zoom and get back to the beginning level of zoom?  I usually have to futz around with it to get the FOV I had originally.  Is there a hot key?

Mike

Press “zoom normal” I think it’s Num Enter. You can set this value by pressing RAlt+Num0 “save cockpit view angles”. You need to have User Snap View Saving checked in the options. You can dial in the desired FOV by pressing Esc when in the cockpit view and the External FOV slider in the System settings will now read Internal FOV. You will want to have any head tracking turned off when saving the view.

Edited April 25, 2024 by SharpeXB

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

I always look at it as a means to both simulate certain levels of visual acuity as well as compensate for the limitations of using a monitor.

Not everyone has my mutant distance vision acuity of 20/10 in my left and 20/8 in my right.

[Bex]

Every object brought into the cockpit in reality must be stowed in a way that it cannot become a projectile or jam the control surfaces. You may carry binoculars, but use them only when the flight situation permits and there is enough space in front of your face so as not to damage the canopy from the inside. I have seen fellow pilots desperately trying to film with their phones using both hands in relatively calm air. It was usually shaky. In DCS, I do not use zoom. The size of objects in the simulator from a distance at high altitude is sufficient for me and serves its purpose. It is a computer simulation, and zoom is a function for compensation. Better to have and not need than to need and not have.

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, Bex said:

You may carry binoculars, but use them only when the flight situation permits

The zoom view isn’t meant to simulate binoculars. Just sayin…

2 hours ago, Bex said:

In DCS, I do not use zoom. The size of objects in the simulator from a distance at high altitude is sufficient for me and serves its purpose.

Suit yourself but you’re handicapping yourself for no good reason. Unless you have a gigantic 8K (or higher) projector screen. 

[Dragon1-1]

Or VR. I can do without zoom most of the time, things are plenty visible at realistic distances (yes, including 12kft pipper on the A-10, though good luck actually hitting at that range). In fact, last time I checked the "spotting dots" were way overdone. Spotting IRL is pretty hard, especially against the ground.