DCS: Kola map by Orbx in Early Access available now!

[RafaPolit]

2 minutes ago, Endline said:

I'm probably missing something, but why is there no trial option for Kola? Especially since it's in EA?

Another one of EDs idiosyncrasies: EA products are launched WITHOUT that, so they can capitalize on early sales to eager people like me that just jump into purchasing it.  Again, a User Experience error in judgement, especially if they want us to buy into the EA model.

[buceador]

5 minutes ago, Endline said:

I'm probably missing something, but why is there no trial option for Kola? Especially since it's in EA?

New stuff doesn't offer trial...

[Yurgon]

21 minutes ago, RafaPolit said:

Just do EXACTLY like you posted, and create Fast Missions for 5 or 6 key modules.  That's all it took FOR THEM (or ED!) to do exactly what you mention and it would have avoided all the talk about that on here.

I have a feeling "the players (TM)" would then complain that the Instant Action missions are boring and stupid and don't offer any real value and all the developers had to do was to do JUST ONE OR TWO well thought out instant action missions per module, THAT'S ALL IT WOULD HAVE TAKEN!!!!1!

Of course as soon as an update drops and new airfields are added, the devs would be criticized for not immediately adding Instant Action missions at those new airfields for the one or two modules a particular player is interested in, conveniently ignoring the fact that there are currently some 50ish modules, meaning we're easily talking more than a hundred IA missions just to cover every module with cold start, sightseeing and a simple targeting range mission. And all of that of course on a map that, as we all know, has just been released into Early Access, meaning the devs might already have some pretty solid ideas where they'd like to put such missions - but if those areas aren't part of the detailed map yet, they'd have to do all those 150+ missions again a couple months or years from now.

It's always easy to ask for this kind of content as long as it's someone else who has to do the work.

25 minutes ago, RafaPolit said:

Another one of EDs idiosyncrasies: EA products are launched WITHOUT that, so they can capitalize on early sales to eager people like me that just jump into purchasing it.  Again, a User Experience error in judgement, especially if they want us to buy into the EA model.

Granted, I'm far from being an expert on the gaming industry as such. But I have a hard time thinking of just one game that allows players free access to the full content for a duration of 2 weeks once every 6 months. I have an even harder time thinking of just one game that would allow this kind of access at release. There are probably examples out there, but I'd say it's far from the norm.

I've got a feeling these days you're not particularly fond of ED and all the 3rd parties as developers, and of DCS as a game. That's fine. But when you make it sound as if the DCS ecosystem was literally the most greedy and unreputable thing in the entire gaming industry, that's a pretty big stretch right there.

[YoYo]

47 minutes ago, RafaPolit said:

Another one of EDs idiosyncrasies: EA products are launched WITHOUT that, so they can capitalize on early sales to eager people like me that just jump into purchasing it.  Again, a User Experience error in judgement, especially if they want us to buy into the EA model.

[Endline]

50 minutes ago, RafaPolit said:

Another one of EDs idiosyncrasies: EA products are launched WITHOUT that, so they can capitalize on early sales to eager people like me that just jump into purchasing it.  Again, a User Experience error in judgement, especially if they want us to buy into the EA model.

 

48 minutes ago, buceador said:

New stuff doesn't offer trial...

Thank you both. I'll probably give it a pass then. 

[RafaPolit]

7 minutes ago, Yurgon said:

...I've got a feeling these days you're not particularly fond of ED and all the 3rd parties as developers, and of DCS as a game...

This is, more or less, precisely it, but as a whole ecosystem.  I think that the entire ecosystem needs to be "healthier": if EA models are priced right, they have reasonable levels of evolvement at the time of delivery, if bugs are fixed fast and on a regular bases, if offered features are delivered within a few months of offerings... then the ecosystem is healthy and people are happy with investing money in EA modules, as they "know" that updates are coming, that bugs are being fixed and that, even at that, you already get a "decent enough" product. This would be the ideal scenario.  ED and partners are, clearly, not here at this moment in time.

If, on the other hand, EA products are almost un-usable at launch time, updates don't come for years, bugs linger for years on end, and prices are too expensive, then you get a very unhealthy ecosystem where people will not invest a dime on those products.  Clearly, ED and partners are not here either!  At all.  That's why I still buy products.

So, I am not pitching them as the "most greedy and unreputable", but there are some recent developments that have moved ED a little bit further below the line.

I see like this:

| Ideal Environment

|

|

| <- we are here

| Balance point where people no longer intrinsically trust ED

|

|

|

| Worst case senario

I believe that the "arrow" is on a "descending" pattern, not on an ascending one. From what I read, I think there's quite a bit of people that believe the same thing.  If you are not, I'm happy, and if not anyone else is feeling like this, then I'm happy to be proven wrong.

 

[T.Power]

Apparently some people are still intimidated by the mission creator and even the fast mission generator.  So, I'm in the process of populating the airfields in Sweden, Finland and Russia for a border skirmish outside Kovdor.  I'm using cold war assets only with one exception, I've put Finland on team blue as opposed to being neutral.

Red - Mig-29A, SU-25, Mi-24P.

Blue - AJS-37, A-10A, F-15C

If anyone has any requests for other airframes that flew during the cold war please let me know and I'll add tasks before I upload it.

[PLUTON]

I checked F10 Works on all maps and I noticed that with the F16c F10 does not work on KOLA
F10 Works with all other modules except F16 (on Kola)

[PLUTON]

After several flights (personally and this is only my responsibility), I find that despite the low definition textures of Norway and part of Sweden where the fiords are located are very pretty.
On the other hand, the high definition textures of Finland and Russia
are far from being beautiful (colors too bright and without nuances)
not pleasant to look at (it looks like fsX 15 years ago).
I imagine Norway and Sweden when the textures will be in HD
It will be a feast for the eyes.
Gentlemen from ORBX are doing a few things to improve the textures of Finland and Russia.
Thanks in advance

[Nazgûl]

 

[j9murphy]

5 hours ago, scotth6 said:

 

Unfortunately there seems to be an echo chamber which is creating the narrative, whether that is a deserved narrative or not.  Particularly on sites like reddit, where the complaining about all things DCS, and flight sims in general, and gaming in general, and with the rise and influence of Youtubers adding to a negative narrative, it seems to be hard for people who want to just enjoy what IS available to even be heard.  I really believe that people are brainwashed, or bullied, or peer pressured into taking on the negativity themselves, especially younger people who are statistically more susceptible to influence.

Now, as a 46 year old, I have been a gamer for most of my life, and a serious flight simmer since about 2009.  Serious as in I have used almost every flight sim released since that time, and up until a few years ago my only PC use was flight simming.  I have been playing DCS World since the Lock On days, and had Flaming Cliffs and the A-10C standalone sim before it later became DCS World.  Admittedly I never used DCS World as much as I used FSX and P3D, but I did use it a lot.  I have bought maybe 70% of the available aircraft modules, have dozens of campaigns, several terrains etc.  I have bought many of the pre-order or Early access modules, and bought the Hornet and the Viper the moment they were announced.  I have NEVER, not once felt that I had been ripped off, or that ED should be more transparent, or work faster or harder to finish modules.  I always just enjoyed what WAS available.  I'm not an overly positive or optimistic person IRL, but I have just NEVER felt anything but gratitude and sometimes amazement for what WAS available, in DCS, or other flight sims or with other games.  Maybe I just have good timing , I don't know what it is.  Maybe I just wait long enough to jump into modules seriously, and learn the systems in a flow so that things are just working when I go to use them.

This latest round of complaints about Kola, particularly on reddit and Youtube comments, has just cemented my view that primarily younger generations are so entitled and so clueless about the development process, which is not the fault of game developers, yet they are forced to cater to it.  I mean, you have people, who I assume MUST be teenagers on reddit, posting comparison shots of MSFS vs DCS Kola map which has JUST been released in early access.  They are seriously comparing a satellite terrain based, 8 year developed and updated, completely different graphics engine based game to terrain which has not even been completed, in a completely different sim, with side by side comparison screenshots, and complaining about it.  You even have Youtubers reviewing and complaining that areas are incomplete and that Kola has been released before it was ready, when it is clearly stated that it's an early access product.

My point is, the customer is not always right, and all of the customer complaints I have read or heard on reddit or youtube are monumentally wrong.  Luckily for ED, not all customers are morons.  Now, as I am responding to your comment RafaPolit, I certainly don't mean to imply you are the same as the people I'm talking about on reddit or YT, although I do disagree that DCS is on a "descending pattern".  I think the narrative on social media might suggest that, but as I said above, social media can just be a loud echo chamber, most often of a loud minority.  I do in fact agree with your take on the lack of any missions.  That was also a little disappointment for me, but not a big deal, especially as we have campaigns in development as we speak.  I have already created a couple of quick missions and tour flights, so it was not a deal breaker for me personally.

 

I couldn't agree more.  I'm in a similar age group to you (just a little older), have worked 30 years in software development, and have six 20-something year old kids - two of which I would put into the gamer category.  They seek perfection, but for them perfection is not a personal experience - it's a shared one.  the first thing they do before they buy anything (or even go to a movie in a theater) is check the reviews. if the reviews are bad, they're out - they wont pay and they become the echo chamber of what they have read without ever actually experiencing it.   in the rare times I can convince one of them to try something new, the experience is totally filtered through the lens of what they read. It's like there are no original experiences any more that are unencumbered by others thoughts.  Anyway, I digress... I'm OT.

I like the kola map, it's not complete but I knew that going in... it will get better and I enjoy it now and will enjoy it more later as it evolves and we get cool campaigns.  The new maps will continue to push the performance of our machines.  We like to complain about the visuals and the performance (they're related you know lol), but they are both improving for all maps even with older hardware.   A+ for Kola as an early access product.

[TOMCATZ]

Hi,

In the past I buildt Norway for Falcon BMS 4.33 . Now when I see what OrbX did, I have to say that I´m truly impressed. 

From my point of view, this map is brilliant. Not completed (of corse) but brilliant. I love it.

Thank you very much and keep on!

Cheers

TOM

[RafaPolit]

10 hours ago, scotth6 said:

 

Unfortunately there seems to be an echo chamber which is creating the narrative, whether that is a deserved narrative or not.  Particularly on sites like reddit, where the complaining about all things DCS, and flight sims in general, and gaming in general, and with the rise and influence of Youtubers adding to a negative narrative, it seems to be hard for people who want to just enjoy what IS available to even be heard.  I really believe that people are brainwashed, or bullied, or peer pressured into taking on the negativity themselves, especially younger people who are statistically more susceptible to influence.

Now, as a 46 year old, I have been a gamer for most of my life, and a serious flight simmer since about 2009.  Serious as in I have used almost every flight sim released since that time, and up until a few years ago my only PC use was flight simming.  I have been playing DCS World since the Lock On days, and had Flaming Cliffs and the A-10C standalone sim before it later became DCS World.  Admittedly I never used DCS World as much as I used FSX and P3D, but I did use it a lot.  I have bought maybe 70% of the available aircraft modules, have dozens of campaigns, several terrains etc.  I have bought many of the pre-order or Early access modules, and bought the Hornet and the Viper the moment they were announced.  I have NEVER, not once felt that I had been ripped off, or that ED should be more transparent, or work faster or harder to finish modules.  I always just enjoyed what WAS available.  I'm not an overly positive or optimistic person IRL, but I have just NEVER felt anything but gratitude and sometimes amazement for what WAS available, in DCS, or other flight sims or with other games.  Maybe I just have good timing , I don't know what it is.  Maybe I just wait long enough to jump into modules seriously, and learn the systems in a flow so that things are just working when I go to use them.

This latest round of complaints about Kola, particularly on reddit and Youtube comments, has just cemented my view that primarily younger generations are so entitled and so clueless about the development process, which is not the fault of game developers, yet they are forced to cater to it.  I mean, you have people, who I assume MUST be teenagers on reddit, posting comparison shots of MSFS vs DCS Kola map which has JUST been released in early access.  They are seriously comparing a satellite terrain based, 8 year developed and updated, completely different graphics engine based game to terrain which has not even been completed, in a completely different sim, with side by side comparison screenshots, and complaining about it.  You even have Youtubers reviewing and complaining that areas are incomplete and that Kola has been released before it was ready, when it is clearly stated that it's an early access product.

My point is, the customer is not always right, and all of the customer complaints I have read or heard on reddit or youtube are monumentally wrong.  Luckily for ED, not all customers are morons.  Now, as I am responding to your comment RafaPolit, I certainly don't mean to imply you are the same as the people I'm talking about on reddit or YT, although I do disagree that DCS is on a "descending pattern".  I think the narrative on social media might suggest that, but as I said above, social media can just be a loud echo chamber, most often of a loud minority.  I do in fact agree with your take on the lack of any missions.  That was also a little disappointment for me, but not a big deal, especially as we have campaigns in development as we speak.  I have already created a couple of quick missions and tour flights, so it was not a deal breaker for me personally.

 

I find it funny (in the best way) to read your comment as: I am also 46, I actually had Microsoft Flight Simulator '95 for which I had a home made joystick.  I did step away from the arena up until recently, but I have almost every module in DCS, all the terrains (even SA), all the extras: Combined Arms, WWII, Supercarrier.  We are basically a very similar player in this environment.

I have a different opinion on certain key areas: the downward trend, for me, consists in the actual business model which, in principle, favors developing new modules and not focusing on existing ones to iron out features and bugs.  I entered the arena mainly as a WWII warbirds pilot, and the Br-109 had a bug that, if you were using MW50, you could not refuel.  This is not a small bug, not being able to refuel in ground seriously limited your ability to do "serious" longer missions.  The bug was there for around 3 years if memory serves me correctly.  In the meanwhile they were busy selling spitfires, mosquitos, p-47s, and completely disregarding serious bugs of other airplanes.  Like this, there are, literally, hundreds of bugs that exist there that linger for years on end and there is little effort (or manpower, or budget, or flow process, or intent... call it whatever you want) to fix them, but you get new modules all the time. That is my concern /critique to the model.  It's in EDs beset interest to push as many modules as possible so people keep buying instead of finishing / fixing previous ones.

The Super Carrier is a similar case:  I bought the SC thinking it was the only way to do carrier ops in the F/A-18.  This is my mistake, 100%, but since then I have read in FB dozens of confused people asking this very same scenario: if I want to get into carrier ops, do I need the SC?  So there is an "overlooked" (to not say intentional) ambiguous confusing situation for new users that, "weirdly enough" favors people buying the SC even if they weren't sure they needed it.  But, again, this is 100% my fault and decision.  But, that happened 4 years ago and it's barely better than the one that is not paid for, has had almost none of the promised features, and they have new teams devoted to coding NEW carriers for the WWII scenario (which has also been grossly neglected) and the purchases we already made are not yet finished (or evolved in a reasonable pace... 4 years in EA is, although more common this days, not reasonable in any way, IMHO).

And then there is the third party complications, specially with Razbam.  I have at least two of their products which now are threated to never be finished.  Even though they are third party modules, I still bought them from ED with a backing from ED that this purchase is backed by them, I honestly wasn't aware that it's a: if the partner drops out, we have no way of controlling that, you are out of luck type of scenario.

So, as much as I enjoy DCS and love flying missions, campaigns and MP servers, to me and my way of assessing my purchase's value... all these things do take away from the experience and create this friction with new modules and, as time goes by, I'm inclined less and less to purchase new additions, as I don't want to wait 4 years to get a feature offered me for $60 discounted dollars at time of release.

Still, your post has 13 hearts and 2 trophies, mine has 1.  So, I would argue that more people here in the forums, feel more like you than they do like me.  That's OK.  Not everything is a good fit for everyone, and, as others have mentioned, no one has forced to buy anything.

I would just echo what Marques suggests in a recent video about the new trend of selling products in EA with the promise of features to come: when purchasing EA products, buy them considering their current value proposition, features and consider if THAT is worth it to you at the moment of the purchase.  Don't buy with the promised features in mind, because that could not get into fruition.  

With that said, and trying to get on topic with the current thread, I honestly don't think the Kola map is currently worth $56, which is more than most AAA games these days.  I already bought it.  I hope it, one day (hopefully soon) would be worth what I already paid.  As is, in my opinion (and mine alone) it is not.

I don't think I'm a new generation entitled whiner.  Maybe to me, those $56 represent more than to others due to being from third world country economies, maybe I'm just a more negative person, yeah, it could be.

At any rate I wanted to reply because yours is a very well thought post explaining your point of view without minimizing mine, even if different, and I appreciate that very much.

[SlipHavoc]

42 minutes ago, RafaPolit said:

I would just echo what Marques suggests in a recent video about the new trend of selling products in EA with the promise of features to come: when purchasing EA products, buy them considering their current value proposition, features and consider if THAT is worth it to you at the moment of the purchase.  Don't buy with the promised features in mind, because that could not get into fruition. 

This has always been my stance, and it's why I have purchased many ED modules.  I also trace my gaming and flight sim history back several decades (my first flight sim was Yeager's Advanced Flight Trainer, and my first combat sim was Microprose's F-19), and in comparison to all the earlier games, DCS (and other current flight sims such as Il-2 and MSFS2020) is vastly superior in almost every way.  DCS is not as good, and never will be as good, as the fantasy flight sim that exists only in my own boundless imagination, but I've found it's better for my own life satisfaction if I look down and am grateful to be up, than to look up and be resentful that I'm down.

You mention Marques's review of the Rabbit, and I agree, that was a great summary of the problem.  But funny enough, the video that I personally thought of was the intro to JJ McCullough's recent video, in which he said:

Quote

"One of my core beliefs is that the broad culture of this continent [North America] too often encourages and celebrates the opposite of gratitude, and that this cultural bias is having ever more toxic and destructive effects.  These days it seems like the quickest path to getting a reputation for intelligence and insight in America is to just endlessly complain about the status quo in increasingly florid language.  It doesn't matter if you are on the right or the left, it is always way more fashionable to complain and denounce than appreciate or enjoy.  It is so much cooler to affect a persona of exhausted disgust or outrage about the component parts of our civilization than express even grudging admiration or respect for any of it."

And even though the video is about consumerism and capitalism rather than gaming, my first thought when I heard that was of hoggit and other subreddits which are awash in exactly the kind of endless toxic griping he's referring to.  Fortunately, I am starting to see at least a little pushback, but there's a long way to go and gratitude seems to be in short supply.

[T.Power]

21 hours ago, SlipHavoc said:

This has always been my stance, and it's why I have purchased many ED modules.  I also trace my gaming and flight sim history back several decades (my first flight sim was Yeager's Advanced Flight Trainer, and my first combat sim was Microprose's F-19), and in comparison to all the earlier games, DCS (and other current flight sims such as Il-2 and MSFS2020) is vastly superior in almost every way.  DCS is not as good, and never will be as good, as the fantasy flight sim that exists only in my own boundless imagination, but I've found it's better for my own life satisfaction if I look down and am grateful to be up, than to look up and be resentful that I'm down.

You mention Marques's review of the Rabbit, and I agree, that was a great summary of the problem.  But funny enough, the video that I personally thought of was the intro to JJ McCullough's recent video, in which he said:

And even though the video is about consumerism and capitalism rather than gaming, my first thought when I heard that was of hoggit and other subreddits which are awash in exactly the kind of endless toxic griping he's referring to.  Fortunately, I am starting to see at least a little pushback, but there's a long way to go and gratitude seems to be in short supply.

Toxic griping seems to be the complaint du jour for gamers especially when it comes to the AAA gaming industry which took a beating after years of piss poor bug ridden release after release (Bathesda anyone?).  DCS has unique issues due to the age of the game engine.  ED made it clear after the 2.9 update that they couldn't commit time to fixing current modules when they'd all break again anyway with the push for Vulkan.  Now they have successfully separated the CPU and GPU tasks they will be able to commit to those fixes.  Super Carrier is due, I'm guessing they pushed it back till May now the Phantom has a hard release date of May 21st, I would hope the new rain and vapor effects will come with the next update along with SC and F4E, the Air Warfare Group made a video on the SC update and it's imminent release, it's due now.

My advice is stay away from places like Reddit, it's an environment where negativity thrives, delete as much social media as you can, my mental health improved drastically after doing so.  I've been Facebook, Twitter and IG free for 4 years now, I don't miss any of it and it sounds like it's way worse now than when I left.

Edited May 8, 2024 by T.Power

[Qcumber]

I like the Kola map. Fjord running is amazing (especially in a mosquito) and I can't wait for high Res in this region! Other parts of the map are variable and it needs some performance optimisation. It's not perfect yet but I'm enjoying it. It has great potential.

Thanks Orbx. I'm glad I bought it. 

[PLUTON]

Totally agree Reddit is toxic and negative
and I always move away from what is negative before it rots me.
I want to keep an uncorrupted mind.

KOLA is already beautiful and she has only just arrived
I'm calm for the future 

[Beirut]

I've been playing tourist over Kola for a few days and it's a very nice map. I think ORBX will do some quality updates.

 

For some reason this map has me back in the Harrier. Don't know why.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

On 5/7/2024 at 8:25 AM, scotth6 said:

Unfortunately there seems to be an echo chamber  ……… so it was not a deal breaker for me personally.

 So true, and so well said. In short, Reddit and all social media fueled by current generations has become pure post-modernism. 

[Qcumber]

1 hour ago, Beirut said:

For some reason this map has me back in the Harrier. Don't know why.

It's because it looks a bit like Scotland. The RAF harriers used to train over the Scottish locks. It's their natural habitat. They like a damp and cold climate.

31 minutes ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

 So true, and so well said. In short, Reddit and all social media fueled by current generations has become pure post-modernism. 

Yes. There is a real mob mentality. 

- "Look, you are all individuals"

- "I'm not"

- "I'm Brian, and so's my wife" 

What has ED ever done for us?

Edited May 8, 2024 by Qcumber

[T.Power]

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3337329/

 

Border Skirmish in the outskirts of Kovdor as promised.  If anyone who is more familiar with the ME, please feel free to edit or add to this mission, I've setup to start in the Mi-24P, so you'll have to use the ME to change the flight package, I couldn't get it to work any other way.

[draconus]

17 minutes ago, T.Power said:

you'll have to use the ME to change the flight package, I couldn't get it to work any other way

It's done as a MP mission. The flyable aircraft you set as Client, not Player. Multiple units can then be clients. When you start the mission you just select aicraft/seat.

[shagrat]

Am 6.5.2024 um 16:00 schrieb Endline:

I'm probably missing something, but why is there no trial option for Kola? Especially since it's in EA?

Because it is an Early Access, so there is no "finished product to try"... trial is usually added when the finished product is out of early access, or at least feature complete and close to final release. 

[shagrat]

Am 7.5.2024 um 08:25 schrieb scotth6:

My point is, the customer is not always right, and all of the customer complaints I have read or heard on reddit or youtube are monumentally wrong.  Luckily for ED, not all customers are morons.  Now, as I am responding to your comment RafaPolit, I certainly don't mean to imply you are the same as the people I'm talking about on reddit or YT, although I do disagree that DCS is on a "descending pattern".  I think the narrative on social media might suggest that, but as I said above, social media can just be a loud echo chamber, most often of a loud minority.

The key here is: everything negative, shocking, disturbing, offensive, aggressive or infuriating generates more attention, more clicks, more views, more advertising and thus more money, than anything healthy, wholesome, positive or uplifting content.

No wonder it produces echo chambers full of negativity...

[T.Power]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

It's done as a MP mission. The flyable aircraft you set as Client, not Player. Multiple units can then be clients. When you start the mission you just select aicraft/seat.

I tried setting all packages to client but the non used packages will not spawn and they're all required for the skirmish to work.