waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Mizzy]

8 hours ago, draconus said:

Refunds are only available for EA F-15E module. No other module will be refunded since they work fine and are not EA modules.

Yep, the other modules work perfectly well..for me that is..and are unaffected by the RB tantrum thingy.

Mizzy

[Mainstay]

5 hours ago, Mizzy said:

That's the only way forward but I would drop the 'we' all stop buying modules bit, the RB/ED thing is only affecting a very small number in the community and they tend to be chewy buggers anyway, it's best to speak for yourself because you don't speak for anyone else.

I agree though that you have invested a significant stake in DCS, all the more reason to see this RB/ED thing in perspective as it only affects one module and that module is working but not to the level that was promised or advertised as some other chap pointed out.  I know some have spit their dummy out but it's frustration and this community gets easily frustrated. Look at all the response's when HeatBlur delayed the launch of the F-4 by one day, ED were accused of scamming the customer, ripping them off, cry's of 'I paid for this and that. You would think the world came to an end with some people. It was comedy gold though reading some of the comments, it was like DCS was the centre of their universe, maybe it is.

On a different tangent, not off topic, but if the rumour mill is to be believed about RB moving platform (hopefully to MSFS) the modules they have been showing off in Japan will be useless as a combat model, as we all know MSFS has no provision to bring their aircraft to DCS standards. So I was wondering, how many DCS people will buy RBs modules in that setting. Think about it, no more arguing about accuracy of this weapon or the F15E has no proper radar that spots little dotty targets or the FM is crap LOL. A bit like the Heatblur version of the F14 or the F104 or the Mig21. Life will be so much more easy for RB in MSFS, or will it 

Anyway, you have loads of things to do in DCS, enjoy yourself, I am contemplating using multiplayer, why not come and shoot the <profanity> out of me because I don't know how to fire a missile, a virtual punchbag if you will. Take care.

Mizzy

The rumour mill is not MSFS its working with Microprose to create Falcon 5.0. The booth had Microprose on the bottom right in red letters (their logo) before opening but when we got to see pictures of the expo in japan only microprose was taped with black tape over it.

Edited October 3, 2024 by Mainstay

[mruediger]

21 hours ago, Mizzy said:

That's the only way forward but I would drop the 'we' all stop buying modules bit, the RB/ED thing is only affecting a very small number in the community and they tend to be chewy buggers anyway, it's best to speak for yourself because you don't speak for anyone else.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. I am desperately trying to get two of my friends to try the F/A-18C. Both are saying that they will not buy anything from ED, Razbam or any other 3rd party developer until the situation has been resolved. But to be honest, I doubt that it will ever get resolved. Both parties will reach some kind of agreement behind closed doors and the theories will continue to circulate. Some will believe Razbam was at fault and its good that they are gone, some will believe it was EDs fault. Either way, people that are holding back now will probably be very hesitant to buy anything again ever again because they assume another debacle like this can happen any time.

[Mizzy]

2 hours ago, mruediger said:

I wouldn't be too sure about that. I am desperately trying to get two of my friends to try the F/A-18C. Both are saying that they will not buy anything from ED, Razbam or any other 3rd party developer until the situation has been resolved. But to be honest, I doubt that it will ever get resolved. Both parties will reach some kind of agreement behind closed doors and the theories will continue to circulate. Some will believe Razbam was at fault and its good that they are gone, some will believe it was EDs fault. Either way, people that are holding back now will probably be very hesitant to buy anything again ever again because they assume another debacle like this can happen any time.

Two of your friends are entitled to do what they feel is best for them but it's hardly a figure that will affect anything. However as you say, and it has merit, the community may never know what has been agreed behind closed doors. Does this mean some people, and I maintain it's a very small minority, will never buy another module for DCS because that to me is silly. Why let a developer (publisher more like) dictate other people's enjoyment and hobby because of a business disagreement that only affects one module in DCS !! A good post nonetheless.

 

19 hours ago, Mainstay said:

The rumour mill is not MSFS its working with Microprose to create Falcon 5.0. The booth had Microprose on the bottom right in red letters (their logo) before opening but when we got to see pictures of the expo in japan only microprose was taped with black tape over it.

 

I don't think this has merit because there is very little evidence (if any) that Falcon 5 actually exists and who is going to do the Viper ! As for the word 'Microprose' being taped over in Japan, I saw the Discord discussion about this nonsense and was indeed just nonsense, in other words a blurred red word that nobody could make out what it actually said.. I agree with you that Razbam are probably (speculation) trying to negotiate their published products being represented on another platform, because I can't see them publishing anything further in DCS. The rumour mill is MSFS which is where Razbam started off, so makes sense to me that's the most likely place for him to head.

My opinion, Razbam will not be able to come back to DCS after this for obvious reasons.

Mizzy 

Edited October 4, 2024 by Mizzy

[Davee]

39 minutes ago, Mizzy said:

Agreed!!

My opinion, Razbam will not be able to come back to DCS after this for obvious reasons.

Mizzy 

 

 

[Oban]

3 hours ago, mruediger said:

I wouldn't be too sure about that. I am desperately trying to get two of my friends to try the F/A-18C. Both are saying that they will not buy anything from ED, Razbam or any other 3rd party developer until the situation has been resolved. But to be honest, I doubt that it will ever get resolved. Both parties will reach some kind of agreement behind closed doors and the theories will continue to circulate. Some will believe Razbam was at fault and its good that they are gone, some will believe it was EDs fault. Either way, people that are holding back now will probably be very hesitant to buy anything again ever again because they assume another debacle like this can happen any time.

I will stick my neck out on the line here, there's no other sime out there that comes close to offering what DCS does in terms of realism, and flight dynamics, and the ability to go head to head in some pretty decent terrains, not one..

If you're friends are not that interested in the Hornet, and it's not a simple plug and play type of aircraft, you actually have to put the workload in to get the full potential, then they're not missing what DCS has to offer, they're better off looking at the other genres and era's sims, so they're indecision and stance as Mizzy has said has zero effect on ED or the current situation as a whole, there's new players joining all the time, there hasn't been a dramtic decrease in the player base, and as it stands, the ONLY aircraft that's at a standstill in terms of development, is the F15E, and even at that it's still in an excellent condition to fly.... there's still a whole lot of fun to be had, there's really no need to cut off ones nose to spite their face, which is what I see a lot of here.

Have a great weekend all

[Nightdare]

On 10/3/2024 at 7:28 PM, Mizzy said:

I agree though that you have invested a significant stake in DCS

@Mainstay didn't invest in DCS, he invested in his own entertainment/happiness, he bought products from ED to achieve that

On 10/3/2024 at 6:58 PM, Mainstay said:

O yes! you are right. Lets see what happens with DCS public market when we all stop buying modules..... you realize that the money we spend is part of the future of the company and the development of future products right? So in a way we are a stake. But hey  our views may differ

Still doesn't not make it OUR investment, ED used your money to further invest in their product, they could just as well have sold everything to a competitor without any say-so from 'our' part

Stop thinking like you own them, all you own is the freedom what you do with your money, once it's out of your hands, you left holding your wallet and hoping for the best

[Oban]

44 minutes ago, Nightdare said:

@Mainstay didn't invest in DCS, he invested in his own entertainment/happiness, he bought products from ED to achieve that

Still doesn't not make it OUR investment, ED used your money to further invest in their product, they could just as well have sold everything to a competitor without any say-so from 'our' part

Stop thinking like you own them, all you own is the freedom what you do with your money, once it's out of your hands, you left holding your wallet and hoping for the best

A lot of people cannot differentiate between a customer and a stakeholder, and the differecne is massive

[MAXsenna]

Still doesn't not make it OUR investment, ED used your money to further invest in their product, they could just as well have sold everything to a competitor without any say-so from 'our' part
Stop thinking like you own them, all you own is the freedom what you do with your money, once it's out of your hands, you left holding your wallet and hoping for the best

I agree with you! While C'mon! I'm sure you understood exactly what Mizzy meant.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Mizzy]

11 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

C'mon! I'm sure you understood exactly what Mizzy meant.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

 Yes, I didn't mean investment as in buying shares in ED LOL, I meant investing time in your enjoyment of DCS. Mainstay has indeed invested in DCS for his personal enjoyment. Let's not over analyse all this  I'm off to fly the L39 in really bad weather, wish me luck. Enjoy your flying

Cheers MAX,

Mizzy

[MAXsenna]

12 minutes ago, Mizzy said:

 Yes, I didn't mean investment as in buying shares in ED LOL, I meant investing time in your enjoyment of DCS. Mainstay has indeed invested in DCS for his personal enjoyment. Let's not over analyse all this  I'm off to fly the L39 in really bad weather, wish me luck. Enjoy your flying

Cheers MAX,

Mizzy

Thanks! Same to you!
My Chinook, is coming along...

[Mizzy]

4 hours ago, Nightdare said:

@Mainstay didn't invest in DCS, he invested in his own entertainment/happiness, he bought products from ED to achieve that

 

Apologies Nightdare, I missed your comment but that is what I meant. Anyway, I crashed in my L39 3 out of 4 times tonight. Oh well, back to the drawing board as the saying goes. Enjoy DCS people, there isn't an alternative and I respect the Company sticking with such a niche market for this long and made it what it is. RIP Igor Tishin 

Mizzy 

[ghostskills82]

Everyone should just cool down a bit and take a step back. I’m grateful to ED for the love and work they put into DCS and, by extension, into our hobby.
With increasing popularity, tensions naturally rise more frequently, and some consumers can lose touch with reality. It’s no different with other games (excuse the term).

It would be so much easier if customers actually read the terms of use instead of immediately clicking 'BUY' everywhere. As for ED and RAZBAM, that's their issue, not ours. But it's pretty clear that the one who’s going to lose out is RAZBAM, not ED.

If your Razbam modules stop working, just fly something else. Just because my Reverb G2 stopped working after the 24H2 update yesterday, I’m not complaining to HP or Microsoft either...

I’m grateful to ED for their work and the passion they've put into their product for decades, and no matter how things turn out with Razbam, I will remain a happy DCS pilot and mission editor for decades to come.
 

[Nightdare]

9 hours ago, Mizzy said:

Apologies Nightdare, I missed your comment but that is what I meant.

 

NP, I know, but some people seem to have a problem understanding context and thereby wholeheartedly believe they actually have authority over (what) companies (do), just by buying their products

No, they do have certain guarantees to service and warrantee as customer, often, if not always, in writing and regardless, always subject to laws, but that is a long way from actual control over a company

[SkateZilla]

On 10/2/2024 at 3:02 PM, Gizmo03 said:

MSFS is MicroSOFT not MicroPROSE.
Do you have a source for that? And please not this YT Video where someone thinks to see the MicroProse Logo at the stand of Razbam in Japan.....

Microprose made the Strike Eagle Series in the 90s.
But i think this is not really related to DCS at all....

 

That same Microprose logo in their booth render, was Covered w/ GAFF tape during the event.

So Pre-Mature assumptions that they have signed any contract are just that, assumptions.

That being said, MP in 2024, is not MP from 2000, they are an entirely new company, that purchased the rights to use the name, and purchased Copyrights to several of the old MP games. They have the Rights to Sell and collect revenue for Falcon, that is all. Which is why they love and support BMS, because BMS generates a revenue stream for something that would other wise be nil. The Falcon Development IP (source code etc), was publicly released from bankruptcy escrow long ago, and does not belong to the current MP company. That being said, if F.50 was even in development, it's still in whiteboard phase, no actual code has even been written, and even then, until the core, physics, graphics engines are done, there's no point in signing 3rd party devs to work on projects, as they have no code base to generate an SDK for said 3rd party devs.

So any sort of "contract" with MP, would still be years away, whether for *planned* Falcon 5.0 or the *Rumored* Strike Eagle Series,
Speaking of F-15E Strike Eagle Series, the new MP does not own the Rights. *( they are still under Retroism iirc)

Edited October 5, 2024 by SkateZilla

[YSIAD_RIP]

I still love all my other Razbam Planes. 

A suggestion:

• If @Eagle Dynamics @BIGNEWY Offer a bunch of ED Miles this Holiday season for purchasing the F15E.. I will buy it! 

 

[BIGNEWY]

1 hour ago, YSIAD_RIP said:

I still love all my other Razbam Planes. 

A suggestion:

• If @Eagle Dynamics @BIGNEWY Offer a bunch of ED Miles this Holiday season for purchasing the F15E.. I will buy it! 

 

any sale or discount for third party products has to be authorised by the third party. 

thank you 

[Devil 505]

6 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

That same Microprose logo in their booth render, was Covered w/ GAFF tape during the event.

So Pre-Mature assumptions that they have signed any contract are just that, assumptions.

That being said, MP in 2024, is not MP from 2000, they are an entirely new company, that purchased the rights to use the name, and purchased Copyrights to several of the old MP games. They have the Rights to Sell and collect revenue for Falcon, that is all. Which is why they love and support BMS, because BMS generates a revenue stream for something that would other wise be nil. The Falcon Development IP (source code etc), was publicly released from bankruptcy escrow long ago, and does not belong to the current MP company. That being said, if F.50 was even in development, it's still in whiteboard phase, no actual code has even been written, and even then, until the core, physics, graphics engines are done, there's no point in signing 3rd party devs to work on projects, as they have no code base to generate an SDK for said 3rd party devs.

So any sort of "contract" with MP, would still be years away, whether for *planned* Falcon 5.0 or the *Rumored* Strike Eagle Series,
Speaking of F-15E Strike Eagle Series, the new MP does not own the Rights. *( they are still under Retroism iirc)

MIC DROP! Love it when facts come together! 

Edited October 5, 2024 by Devil 505

[TKhaos]

6 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

That same Microprose logo in their booth render, was Covered w/ GAFF tape during the event.

There was all the hype with Razbam and Microprose and as you say everything gets covered up in the end.

I was recently reading about a collaboration between Microprose and Razbam working on the B-17 Flying Fortress for MSFS, lots of pictures and the names in big bold print.

I can no longer find those web pages from a few days ago but have noticed on all the official Microprose YouTube videos and statements they make it very clear that the B-17 has been produced by a dedicated in house team and RB aren't mentioned anywhere.

[Mizzy]

36 minutes ago, TKhaos said:

I can no longer find those web pages from a few days ago but have noticed on all the official Microprose YouTube videos and statements they make it very clear that the B-17 has been produced by a dedicated in house team and RB aren't mentioned anywhere.

Razbam have recently removed all association with DCS on their website. What am I reading into this you may ask? Well, Razbam have removed all association with DCS on their website.

Mizzy

[TKhaos]

4 minutes ago, Mizzy said:

Razbam have recently removed all association with DCS on their website. What am I reading into this you may ask? Well, Razbam have removed all association with DCS on their website.

Mizzy

Yeah they got the Tokyo Game stuff on the menu where DCS used to be, maybe no one knows how to make an extra category on the menu

[scommander2]

7 minutes ago, Mizzy said:

Razbam have recently removed all association with DCS on their website.

Yes, the DCS manuals leave at their website... mmm.... thanks for info.

[TKhaos]

3 minutes ago, scommander2 said:

Yes, the DCS manuals leave at their website... mmm.... thanks for info.

The M-2000C, MiG-19 and F-15E are the only DCS manuals on there now, probably be a good idea for people to download if they need them although I found Chucks Guides to be good.

[MAXsenna]

The M-2000C, MiG-19 and F-15E are the only DCS manuals on there now, probably be a good idea for people to download if they need them although I found Chucks Guides to be good.

Are they newer than the ones in the game?

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[TKhaos]

1 minute ago, MAXsenna said:

Are they newer than the ones in the game?

No, just downloaded the F-15E to have a nosey at and it's dated 23.06.14, guessing that's 14.06.23 for me