waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[draconus]

6 hours ago, Mizzy said:

But then you wouldn't have this thread you have taken the time to post on would you !!

We would, just without haters.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

13 hours ago, LordOrion said:

I'm still waiting for and explanation (hopefuly with some proof) of all those "wrongdoing" that Razbam supporters are talking about...

 

Well, they're working off of emotion and ignorance (even willing) of how business law functions.

All that said, we don't know specifics and ED is probably in the wrong somewhere by the simple virtue of it taking two to tango. We often think of companies as monolithic hiveminds, but Really? For those of us that have had experience in the office world, how many of you have wanted to go full Milton Waddams on a marketing department? How many of us have wanted to tell a SysAdmin in IT that your 20 year old cousin could do his job with a fraction of his self importance? How many have just wanted to elbow drop the entirety of HR? Companies are discordant, clumsy, and often stupid things. The idea that the private sector is efficient is a lie we keep telling ourselves and it's hilarious. So, I'd suggest that, even in light of Razbam's own chicanery over social media and history of similar behavior? Somewhere, someone in ED fumbled the bag to some degree.

To what degree is something for lawyers to hash out, obviously, and letting this information into the court of public opinion is never a good thing as it can poison the well, effectively.

So, is ED at fault? To some degree, probably, but we don't know and probably won't know for a long time.

[stonewall197922]

15 минут назад, MiG21bisFishbedL сказал:

So, is ED at fault? To some degree, probably, but we don't know and probably won't know for a long time.

If ever. The best thing we could do is stay calm and wait, and wait. The only ones who know`s all, is top management of the both sides. Other than that is total flatter. Stay calm have a cup of cofee (or whiskey if you prefer or whatever). 

[some1]

48 minutes ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

So, is ED at fault? To some degree, probably, but we don't know and probably won't know for a long time.

Yeah, since we don't know who's at fault here, or whose fault is "bigger", it's best to not send any more money to either company until the situation is resolved. 

Unfortunately in this kind of arguments customer interest comes last.

[WipeUout]

3 minutes ago, some1 said:

it's best to not send any more money to either company until the situation is resolved. 

Why cause even further issues?  If you are not happy with the situation you can voice (or write) it.  Causing their sales to go lower is not going to help in any way, on the contrary if too many people do this it will eventually hurt the company's financial health. 

[stonewall197922]

7 минут назад, WipeUout сказал:

Why cause even further issues?  If you are not happy with the situation you can voice (or write) it.  Causing their sales to go lower is not going to help in any way, on the contrary if too many people do this it will eventually hurt the company's financial health. 

This situation is strikes at both companies. And both companies should unerstand risks and prices of their actions.Will it be ED or RB

[some1]

28 minutes ago, WipeUout said:

Why cause even further issues?  If you are not happy with the situation you can voice (or write) it.  Causing their sales to go lower is not going to help in any way, on the contrary if too many people do this it will eventually hurt the company's financial health. 

Because if it becomes business as usual without any repercussions, then next year maybe another 3rd party will also "breach its contractual obligations" to quote Mr Nick Grey.

Besides, I'm simply following ED practice here. They can withhold payments to their partner due to contractual breach, I can withhold future purchases from both companies due to breach of obligations to me as a customer. And a simple loss of trust.

Best of all, no lawyers involved, I just keep the wallet shut and that's it

[Nightdare]

28 minutes ago, some1 said:

Because if it becomes business as usual without any repercussions, then next year maybe another 3rd party will also "breach its contractual obligations" to quote Mr Nick Grey.

 

Yes, it's all to protect the IP, which may have a marginal negative effect on DCS customers currently, but not protecting it will have major negative effects on DCS as a whole

Everyone pissing and moaning about ONE module being affected now? Honestly, how would you feel if ALL modules went up for grabs and DCS imploded

 

28 minutes ago, some1 said:

Besides, I'm simply following ED practice here. They can withhold payments to their partner due to contractual breach, I can withhold future purchases from both companies due to breach of obligations to me as a customer. And a simple loss of trust.

Best of all, no lawyers involved, I just keep the wallet shut and that's it

 

Did ED breach their obligation to you? Please point out where they did and what that obligation is, ...no, catering to your sense of entitlement is not an obligation

Also: if you did have a contract with ED, you could have forced them into taking action and hold them to that 'obligation' or face repercussions -Funny how that works, doesn't it?

 

1 hour ago, some1 said:

Unfortunately in this kind of arguments customer interest comes last.

 

Only for short term entitled thinkers, explain: how does a company losing its IP benefit its customers?

Edited October 16, 2024 by Nightdare

[DD_Fenrir]

Oh look!

More people speculating wildly and casting uninformed opinions on stuff they know sweet FA about!

Wow, what a goldmine of profoundly useless information this thread is!

Well done all! You're doing the community proud!

[Koziolek]

6 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said:

 

Wow, what a goldmine of profoundly useless information this thread is!

 

You are absolutely right. But what an entertainment it is!

[Nightdare]

5 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said:

Oh look!

More people speculating wildly and casting uninformed opinions on stuff they know sweet FA about!

Wow, what a goldmine of profoundly useless information this thread is!

Well done all! You're doing the community proud!

 

Ironically, your reply takes the cake 

[some1]

39 minutes ago, Nightdare said:

Everyone pissing and moaning about ONE module being affected now? Honestly, how would you feel if ALL modules went up for grabs and DCS imploded

Four modules are out of support, another one in advanced stage of development has been halted (MiG-23). That's a pretty sizable chunk of DCS ecosystem. Not counting other Razbam modules teased over the years as I frankly don't keep track of every weird thing they announced or hinted. 

If DCS implodes then it implodes. It's not the only computer game out there, it's not even the only simulator.

39 minutes ago, Nightdare said:

Did ED breach their obligation to you? Please point out where they did and what that obligation is, ...no, catering to your sense of entitlement is not an obligation

It's basic business. If they can't, or don't want to deliver what's been paid for and provide proper support after sale, then they've lost a customer. Both ED and Razbam.

ED likes to keep a tight ship with 3rd party developers, with closed SDK, licensing aircraft, centralized store and updates etc. but at the same time to hold no responsibility when things go south. Then the Russian devs will tell you they're only a store front, it's not their problem. Well, doesn't always work that way.

53 minutes ago, Nightdare said:

Only for short term entitled thinkers, explain: how does a company losing its IP benefit its customers?

First please explain what IP has been lost, how much value it had and how it relates to the consumer (entertainment) side of DCS. Then we can make an assesment.

[NineLine]

You guys all need to stop now, everything in the first post is what is known, this round and round is not helping anything. 

3 minutes ago, some1 said:

Four modules are out of support, another one in advanced stage of development has been halted (MiG-23). That's a pretty sizable chunk of DCS ecosystem. Not counting other Razbam modules teased over the years as I frankly don't keep track of every weird thing they announced or hinted. 

If DCS implodes then it implodes. It's not the only computer game out there, it's not even the only simulator.

It's basic business. If they can't, or don't want to deliver what's been paid for and provide proper support after sale, then they've lost a customer. Both ED and Razbam.

ED likes to keep a tight ship with 3rd party developers, with closed SDK, licensing aircraft, centralized store and updates etc. but at the same time to hold no responsibility when things go south. Then the Russian devs will tell you they're only a store front, it's not their problem. Well, doesn't always work that way.

First please explain what IP has been lost, how much value it had and how it relates to the consumer (entertainment) side of DCS. Then we can make an assesment.

 

[Pipe]

7 hours ago, Nightdare said:

Only for short term entitled thinkers, explain: how does a company losing its IP benefit its customers?

 

How exactly do you know their losing IP? Is this a new official statement?

Asking for a friend

[TKhaos]

35 minutes ago, Pipe said:

How exactly do you know their losing IP? Is this a new official statement?

It was in the official statement by Eagle Dynamics, the very first post in this discussion.

Edited October 16, 2024 by TKhaos

[TKhaos]

On 10/15/2024 at 8:52 PM, Mizzy said:

Why they haven't thought about Zambrano swanning off to Japan

They have also been in Chile at the International Air and Space Fair back in April, with their partners Vrgineers

[TKhaos]

On 10/14/2024 at 9:34 PM, Devil 505 said:

I know Razbam is not making the Blackhawk

They been working on a Blackhawk for several months, just not for DCS.

[NineLine]

26 minutes ago, TKhaos said:

They been working on a Blackhawk for several months, just not for DCS.

If it's not for DCS, it is not for discussion here. Please stay on topic. Thanks.

[TKhaos]

23 minutes ago, NineLine said:

If it's not for DCS, it is not for discussion here. Please stay on topic. Thanks.

No problem

Edited October 17, 2024 by TKhaos

[Dangerzone]

7 hours ago, some1 said:

If DCS implodes then it implodes. It's not the only computer game out there, it's not even the only simulator.

That's OK for people who are happy with other games. Personally - I don't play games, and DCS imploding would have me selling my entire gaming rig and peripherals as I don't know any that comes along like DCS, a full fidelity simulator that allows multiplayer in a combat environment with fixed wing, helicopters, ground units, etc together, with Naval / carrier operations that allows me to create scenario's with mission editing and scripting like DCS allows. DCS has a lot of versatility that is unequalled - unless there's something I've missed.

Gut feeling leaves me without much hope for the situation with Razbam, and I know it's going to cost some customers, and create ripples, but I'm very much hoping this is a temporary setback and it will be 'upwards and onwards' with DCS and all it's 3rd party content creators as we move into the future. 

[freehand]

6 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

That's OK for people who are happy with other games. Personally - I don't play games

A part from this game of course.

[draconus]

7 hours ago, TKhaos said:

their partners Vrgineers

Relax, ED and Razbam are on the same page, literally:

https://vrgineers.com/partners/

[some1]

7 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

That's OK for people who are happy with other games. Personally - I don't play games, and DCS imploding would have me selling my entire gaming rig and peripherals as I don't know any that comes along like DCS

It's rather ironic that many people here are pretty ok with ED strangling Razbam to death, even not knowing what and how much is owned, if it equals to yearly Razbam income to warrant such action, etc. But when I mentioned that I stop buying modules from both companies then it's suddenly "why hurt the company's financial health?", "I don't want DCS to die". 

You know what, I don't want DCS to die either. I also don't want Razbam to die. I don't take sides here because we as customers know very little about the situation. What I see are two companies locked in a very unfortunate argument, that does not paint any of them in a good light. To the point, where frankly I will avoid doing business with any of them in the future, if possible.

[Flia]

If Razbam dies, so be it. I will not cry for him. Not even a little.

[pjbunnyru]

1 час назад, some1 сказал:

It's rather ironic that many people here are pretty ok with ED strangling Razbam to death, even not knowing what and how much is owned, if it equals to yearly Razbam income to warrant such action, etc. But when I mentioned that I stop buying modules from both companies then it's suddenly "why hurt the company's financial health?", "I don't want DCS to die". 

You know what, I don't want DCS to die either. I also don't want Razbam to die. I don't take sides here because we as customers know very little about the situation. What I see are two companies locked in a very unfortunate argument, that does not paint any of them in a good light. To the point, where frankly I will avoid doing business with any of them in the future, if possible.

both sides lost

Edited October 17, 2024 by pjbunnyru