waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Esac_mirmidon]

As a result of not beeing paid also.

What if:

ED: We have an IP issue with Razbam. They own Razbam before the issue the Amount X. They value the IP issue the amount Y. They pay Razbam X-Y= Z. They keep the amont Y inmobilized until the issue is resolved. Until resolution further sales of RB modules are payed by quarter fees as usual. RB can keep updating and developing the modules. 

That is a civil manner of facing issues.

What we have:

ED have an IP issue with Razbam. They dont pay anything to RB, not the money earned by sales BEFORE the IP issue, not the money earned by sales AFTER the issue. Everything is halted by years on courts. RB halted development. We as customers watching this state of decay

Edited November 3, 2024 by Esac_mirmidon

[SkateZilla]

8 minutes ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

As a result of not beeing paid also.

What if:

ED: We have an IP issue with Razbam. We own Razbam before the issue the Amount X. We value the IP issue the amount Y. We pay Razbam X-Y= Z. We keep the amont Y inmobilized until the issue is resolved. Until resolution further sales of RB modules are payed by quarter fees as usual. RB can keep updating and developing the modules. 

That is a civil manner of facing issues.

 

That would require some form of legal mediation as ED can't/shouldn't place value on RB's IP as a 1st party and RB can say ED's cut should be X.
A neutral legal mediator would have to place a value on RB's IP.

Either way, from what I gather,
- RB was notified about the contract breach a long time before it went public, 
- RB made the decision to continue development, knowing payment was being suspended during the contract dispute.
- ED/RB continued to negotiate.
- RB Devs could no longer work for free and that's when it went public.

I don't take either side, But seeing background "leaked" messages, and then post public comments made by one side. It's clear on side's business operations are lacking structure and communications between the developers and the leadership and vise versa.

Edited November 3, 2024 by SkateZilla

[Nightdare]

2 minutes ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

As a result of not beeing paid also

 

Again: Why weren't they being paid?

<profanity>s and giggles?

 

Don't know about you, but the only reason my employer would not need to shell out money I'm owed, is if they went bankrupt, if not, me and my lawyer are getting paid

There's cause and effect, please elaborate how a company can simply stop paying someone for work done and not lose the court case ensuing this

 

[Esac_mirmidon]

Ask ED why didnt pay HB for a year or RB for 8 months BEFORE the IP issue arose.

Im not the one to answer. Maybe the sales structure where Early Access modules pay the work done before has something to do

 

 

Edited November 3, 2024 by Esac_mirmidon

[SkateZilla]

1 minute ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

Ask ED why didnt pay HB for a year or RB for 8 months BEFORE the IP issue arose.

Im not the one to answer.

 

 

respectfully if you don't know why, then you can't use it as a Argumentative Point.

Edited November 3, 2024 by SkateZilla

[Esac_mirmidon]

I´ve didnt say i dont know. I´ve said im not the one to answer the question. I´ve my own thoughts about, maybe wrong, maybe right

[SkateZilla]

2 hours ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

I´ve didnt say i dont know. I´ve said im not the one to answer the question. I´ve my own thoughts about, maybe wrong, maybe right

Unless you're Ron Zambrano or ED's legal team, you don't know, I don't even think the RB Devs know the full story, because Ron and the Devs have posted conflicting statements multiple times on their own discord.

Assumptions/Thoughts based on Expose' articles and such are all based off rumors and mis-interpreted leaked messages that were used and manipulated to create a narrative.

No different than news networks slicing and dicing camera phone footage to make one party appear to be the clear aggressor for public outcry.

Stirring drama and kool aid gets those sites hits and ad revenue etc, and attention, the more attention they get the more of a complex the owners get.

The fact that someone spends most of their free time doing investigative articles on every move ED/One Company makes raises eyebrows, though I'll give them kudos for commitment.

But ED's operations aren't exactly Area51 in the 70s level of material... you'd get more hits on exposing EK Waterblocks at this point.
Like does the public really need to know or care what type of toilet paper is in Nick's office bathroom?, Nope. 

Is one party clearly dissolved of any mis-steps? definitely not, there were things on both sides that led to the situation being as it is.
But post public disclosure, one party's operational tact is nil, and the constant leaks, disclosures, allegedly incriminating statements etc by that party, likely dont make any type of professional negotiating easier.

In-so-facto, I was labelled an ED sales person by RB's own devs, despite not taking sides, but defending myself in their discord, so it is what it is.

from an outsider perspective, just by what's publicly visible, and removing any knowledge or assumptions I have via testing/developing, just as an individual looking at both parties.

ED's house is closed off and silent, and Razbam's house is a non-stop Frat Party.

Edited November 3, 2024 by SkateZilla

[Oban]

4 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

In-so-facto, I was labelled an ED sales person by RB's own devs, despite not taking sides, but defending myself in their discord, so it is what it is.

Indeed, RB devs are their own worst enemy, and definately not helping their CEO's situation one iota.

Loose lips sink ships, and less said soonest mended spring to mind..

 

[Oban]

5 hours ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

As a result of not beeing paid also.

What if:

ED: We have an IP issue with Razbam. They own Razbam before the issue the Amount X. They value the IP issue the amount Y. They pay Razbam X-Y= Z. They keep the amont Y inmobilized until the issue is resolved. Until resolution further sales of RB modules are payed by quarter fees as usual. RB can keep updating and developing the modules. 

That is a civil manner of facing issues.

What we have:

ED have an IP issue with Razbam. They dont pay anything to RB, not the money earned by sales BEFORE the IP issue, not the money earned by sales AFTER the issue. Everything is halted by years on courts. RB halted development. We as customers watching this stay of decay

 

Yeah, clearly you don't have a business to run.. and speculating and adding nothing of value either.



 

[Esac_mirmidon]

Thanks for your kind reply and evaluation of my value sharing my thoughts.

I will respect yours instead. Is as valuable as mine

Edited November 3, 2024 by Esac_mirmidon

[Aries]

5 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

VEAO allegedly left DCS because it wasn't profitable for them to continue. So they ended support and left.

Well... that is not the reason why they left... do your homework my friend...

[TheFreshPrince]

7 months^TM

 

Edit: I thought 6 months, but it's actually been ongoing for 7 now

Edited November 3, 2024 by TheFreshPrince

[Netrunner]

33 minutes ago, Aries said:

Well... that is not the reason why they left... do your homework my friend...

Yup, I remember that whole thing clear as day. They had an entire P-40F module ready to go and had taken pre-orders for it and then bailed from DCS. Of course, I lost my 50-60$ for the abandoned Hawk as well.

Edited November 3, 2024 by Netrunner

[Lasko]

7 hours ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

They pay Razbam X-Y= Z.

That's an assumption that X > Y.  I presume the value of Y is yet to be determined, along with whatever side effects of Y existing at all.  If it was as simple as a + b = c this would have been resolved long ago.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Is not simple, is another way of facing the issue with at least granting part of the income to RB and keep them working. But for that, some confidence, some trust in each other should exist. 

It seems nothing remains about that. Its to late. I hope im wrong but time will tell.

 

Edited November 3, 2024 by Esac_mirmidon

[Nightdare]

8 hours ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

Ask ED why didnt pay HB for a year or RB for 8 months BEFORE the IP issue arose.

 

 

I don't need to

First off: They didn't get into this dispute after not paying for 8 months, they stopped paying because of this dispute and it only became public after 8 months

(we don't actually know how far back the issue began, for all we know, ED would have sent C&D orders well over a year before taking monetary action)

The reason behind this dispute: It's in the OP

 

Second of all, not paying for work done is illegal, you know as well as I, an employer or consignor cannot do so without repercussions unless they have a justification

So, even if we we would not have a clear reason, the lack of judicial backlash to ED in this matter kinda proves their point

[Pipe]

7 minutes ago, Nightdare said:

Second of all, not paying for work done is illegal, you know as well as I, an employer or consignor cannot do so without repercussions unless they have a justification

So, even if we we would not have a clear reason, the lack of judicial backlash to ED in this matter kinda proves their point

I believe this remains to be seen..

[Citizen]

9 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

- RB was notified about the contract breach a long time before it went public, 

I have not seen any indication of this and nothing is appearing in google.

[Mizzy]

8 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

Assumptions/Thoughts based on Expose' articles and such are all based off rumors and mis-interpreted leaked messages that were used and manipulated to create a narrative.
 

Exactly the point I made in a previous post. One Party going public was for this reason and it's usually the Party that has the weaker case.

Mizzy

[Oban]

22 minutes ago, Citizen said:

I have not seen any indication of this and nothing is appearing in google.

Why would it? It's not a common practice for companies invloved in contractual disputes to go public

Sure there's the reddit platform where it's selective snippets of leaked information are available, where again one side has said it hasn't come from them, and well, it's well known that several RB Devs have been providing selective private conversations, with a clear intent to stir up emotions,  a clear case of "schadenfreude" .

One party has kept to their narrative, and said very few words, the other, albeit it not from their corporate team, constantly throw gasoline on the flames. As much as I feel for them having not been paid by their employer, RB, their public comments are not helping their situation.

The suggestion that paying RB half of what they're owed to semi resolve this could have been a decent thing to consider had both parties kept the dirty laundry out of the public. 

The behaviour of their devs more or less would have ended that option, there's no winners in this situation, ED, RB and their consumers have lost out.. Even if ED and RB resolve the situation, those devs have burned their bridges publicly, so who's going to pick up the reigns for the F15E, which is everyone main concern?

[SkateZilla]

49 minutes ago, Citizen said:

I have not seen any indication of this and nothing is appearing in google.

Messages and Emails posted elsewhere confirm that.

[SkateZilla]

4 hours ago, Aries said:

Well... that is not the reason why they left... do your homework my friend...

I've spoken w/ both Pete and Ells after VEAO Left, that is the Long story short version, which is why it was labelled "allegedly", I can't really go into specifics beyond that publicly.

Edited November 3, 2024 by SkateZilla

[Citizen]

1 hour ago, SkateZilla said:

Messages and Emails posted elsewhere confirm that.

I did my due diligence and performed another search.  There's nothing public that supports RB being aware of an alleged IP dispute before RB went public.

[Oban]

9 minutes ago, Citizen said:

There's nothing public that supports RB being aware of an alleged IP dispute before RB went public

Again, why would it be public? The whole shytshow unfolded when RB went public, and then the alleged IP abuse counterclaim was made public by ED to counter what RB announced, at this point ED went silent based off legal advice, and to be fair, pretty much so did RB corporate, it was their 3rd party Dev's who have been systematically leaking confidential documents, with the intention to garner public support, which to a degree did exactly that, but it's also divided the community, which in turn has turned into levels of toxicity that's reminded me of why I left the ArmA scene.

The situation has been poorly handled (from a consumers persective) right from the get go by ALL parties concerned.

[nessuno0505]

12 ore fa, Esac_mirmidon ha scritto:

Ask ED why didnt pay HB for a year

Keep HB out of this mess. They clearly said they do not want to be involved, either they didn't even confirm that they were not paid. It's just speculation made by RB to discredit ED.