waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Mizzy]

2 hours ago, Pipe said:

Read it right here, doesn’t say anything about opinion

Read it right here, doesn’t say anything about opinion

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I did say it was my opinion. You should read peoples posts more thoroughly before making an issue. Also, you know whatever is said in these posts are nothing but opinion, why you make big issues out of nothing? or are you just bored? just my opinion.

Mizzy

2 hours ago, rob10 said:

In fairness, if you go back to the post you ended with "I wonder how long this post would last if I posted this on Zambrano's Discord" it definitely comes across as a statement rather than an opinion (especially if you only read that post).  May not have been what you intended, but that's how it reads.

 

[Pipe]

6 hours ago, Mizzy said:

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I did say it was my opinion. You should read peoples posts more thoroughly before making an issue. Also, you know whatever is said in these posts are nothing but opinion, why you make big issues out of nothing? or are you just bored? just my opinion.

Mizzy

No not bored, just read your quoted post and wanted a link to an official statement. I would ask if you’re bored, all you need to know is in the first post and requires no further reading. Maybe you have an agenda? Btw name calling is derogatory and against forum rules..

[Gary]

21 minutes ago, Pipe said:

No not bored, just read your quoted post and wanted a link to an official statement. I would ask if you’re bored, all you need to know is in the first post and requires no further reading. Maybe you have an agenda? Btw name calling is derogatory and against forum rules..

Name calling? - really?

If an adult conversation and opinions which differ from your own might offend you - I would suggest a forum is not the place for you.

Of course - if no offense was taken by you then I'm not sure what motive you might have for even suggesting someone called somebody else a name?

[Pipe]

20 minutes ago, Gary said:

Name calling? - really?

If an adult conversation and opinions which differ from your own might offend you - I would suggest a forum is not the place for you.

Of course - if no offense was taken by you then I'm not sure what motive you might have for even suggesting someone called somebody else a name?

It wasn’t in the post in question, she knows and knows better. Nuff said

thank you

[Nightdare]

15 hours ago, NineLine said:

I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that anything about this topic beyond official posts, announcements, and comments from official people are just opinions. 

 

In honesty NineLine: the dispute is also a matter of different opinion between 2 companies 

 

~

 

I once was a member on a forum where an entire discussion broke out that 'maybe people should start their posts with "In my opinion"'

Which IMO was the most stupid redundant idea I ever heard concerning a place that had open discussions, since that sentence would then open 99.999% of all posts and may just as well be auto-added with forum software on anything but bulletin notices

common sense doesn't need a disclaimer, everything is an opinion, the only value it may have if it's supported by facts

Edited November 10, 2024 by Nightdare

[Horns]

Everything official is in the first post. If it’s not in the first post it’s not official,. @NineLine is better placed than I am to talk about moderation, but I believe when people have been moderated it’s because they claimed to have inside information (first-hand or otherwise) or a source within one of the parties, @Mizzy did not do either.

[nessuno0505]

Because she has none. However, knowing the previous history of Razbam and seeing how long this story drags on, it is quite reasonable to believe that Razbam will not come back and it is equally reasonable to hope that the individual people who wrote the code of the razbam modules, often contractors, can continue their work under another flag, so as not to lose DCS modules or have "frozen" ones. That is an opinion that I would share. If Razbam will be able to surprise me, so much better. But I doubt it.

Edited November 11, 2024 by nessuno0505

[Citizen]

As far as opinions go, I think Mizzy is right that RB isn't coming back to ED.  If NG told me he wanted to destroy my company, I probably wouldn't make big plans for coming back to ED either.

[TKhaos]

8 hours ago, nessuno0505 said:

it is equally reasonable to hope that the individual people who wrote the code of the razbam modules, often contractors, can continue their work under another flag

Bit unfortunate that it's those very people that have been the most critical and vocal of ED, publicly slating them and releasing confidential information/documents, although it remains to be seen if they were genuine as some looked like a Sesame Street project gone wrong.

One Razbam dev in particular had to remove a number of posts from other forums because they were informed by users that were lawyers/solicitors that they were libellous. Although those posts were removed fairly quickly a large number of people had already seem them, some doing screenshots and it was being shared so it was out there for people to see and pass judgement.

Makes you wonder if ED would actually want anyone like that working directly for them, it's what made me laugh when people were suggesting offering them large amounts of money to defect from Razbam to ED after they publicity trashed the company.

In my opinion it would have been much easier and likely quicker to solve the ED/RB dispute and reform a working relationship of some kind if the RB devs hadn't stuck their oar in and tried trashing ED's reputation and using customers as tools to start a witch hunt.

[nessuno0505]

I think you're right. In fact, as much as I share @Mizzy 's hopes, more realistically I believe that we will keep RB's modules forever frozen in their current state, with the only doubt being the 15, that could be removed from the store and refunded (but I think it will be frozen too, with the refund as an optional).

[ebabil]

I don't think RB will come back to ED either. But I really don't want to lose the eagle either. I hope it will not be removed from the game.

[ssn]

Looking what the devs in quesion are saying, I don't think they would like to come back. And I don't blame them neither for unwillingness to continue with ED nor with public posts.  If I wouldn't get paid I'd be furious.

[VDV]

is there any news about F-15E developement??

[Pipe]

20 minutes ago, VDV said:

is there any news about F-15E developement??

Nothing new at this time

[nessuno0505]

2 ore fa, ssn ha scritto:

Looking what the devs in quesion are saying, I don't think they would like to come back. And I don't blame them neither for unwillingness to continue with ED nor with public posts.  If I wouldn't get paid I'd be furious.

Why should a person under contract with Razbam be upset with ED if he is not paid? This still needs to be explained to me, from the beginning of the whole thing.

4 ore fa, ebabil ha scritto:

I don't think RB will come back to ED either. But I really don't want to lose the eagle either. I hope it will not be removed from the game.

I understand your concern, but leaving an incomplete product in the store would set a dangerous precedent, and personally I wouldn't want that either.

[NineLine]

On 11/10/2024 at 7:51 AM, Nightdare said:

In honesty NineLine: the dispute is also a matter of different opinion between 2 companies 

 

Indeed. 

[draconus]

4 hours ago, nessuno0505 said:

I understand your concern, but leaving an incomplete product in the store would set a dangerous precedent, and personally I wouldn't want that either.

There are plenty of EA products in the store and Strike Eagle does not stand out in completness terms.

[Nightdare]

9 hours ago, ssn said:

Looking what the devs in quesion are saying, I don't think they would like to come back. And I don't blame them neither for unwillingness to continue with ED nor with public posts.  If I wouldn't get paid I'd be furious.

 

And if you were justifyingly withheld pay, your rage would only prove you unprofessional and petty and nobody would want to work with you

[NineLine]

3 hours ago, draconus said:

There are plenty of EA products in the store and Strike Eagle does not stand out in completness terms.

I think his point is an EA product that no longer is planned to be updated. If for some horrible reason we get to that point, we would need to take a serious look at all possible options. I would rather we not have to find out. 

[cuchara]

Hi all,Why does the buyer always pay for mistakes,misunderstandings,contract issues,etc?

[Nebula_Creates]

14 hours ago, NineLine said:

I think his point is an EA product that no longer is planned to be updated. If for some horrible reason we get to that point, we would need to take a serious look at all possible options. I would rather we not have to find out. 

Respectfully, from the consumer perspective, we see this as the position we are in. As far as we are aware, the F-15E will not receive any of it's promised features due to the issues between these two companies. This was a highly anticipated module and has many systems that are some of the most advanced systems in the Simulator. I understand you are in a difficult position and can say little, but from our perspective it has been almost a year without any information or any light at the end of the tunnel. I hope you can understand if trust in both companies is currently exceedingly low.

Edited November 12, 2024 by Nebula_Creates

[NineLine]

1 hour ago, Nebula_Creates said:

Respectfully, from the consumer perspective, we see this as the position we are in. As far as we are aware, the F-15E will not receive any of it's promised features due to the issues between these two companies. This was a highly anticipated module and has many systems that are some of the most advanced systems in the Simulator. I understand you are in a difficult position and can say little, but from our perspective it has been almost a year without any information or any light at the end of the tunnel. I hope you can understand if trust in both companies is currently exceedingly low.

 

We can only share what is in the original post, and right now nothing leads me to believe that either team wants the F-15E to go away. I understand it is hard to hold out hope, especially with all the noise out there and I know some of that noise comes from sources you might consider official, but the safest path right now is to go off the official announcements and the fact that everyone wants the F-15E to continue. 

[Nightdare]

On 11/12/2024 at 1:46 AM, NineLine said:

I think his point is an EA product that no longer is planned to be updated. If for some horrible reason we get to that point, we would need to take a serious look at all possible options. I would rather we not have to find out. 

 

With all due respect Nineline -and your free to disregard and remove this opinion if not relevent enough for this discussion

But that this doom-scenario wasn't identified and nailed down prior to this 'problem', still keeps a powderkeg under the whole 3rd party business model and motivates customers to only 'invest' in ED modules, since that has a certain 'safety' to early adopters to come to full fruition

Even if this dispute settles with all parties aboard and happy, or if things go awry yet ED manages to still get this module on the market as intended, this time, the key words are: "this time"

No question ED took a big hit from this, but all 3rd parties are also burnt with the ensuing distrust

In this topic where we talked ad nauseum about business, contracts, property and accountability, you can be sure a part of the customers aren't gonna settle for pinky promises and sorry's anymore either

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

On 11/11/2024 at 4:38 AM, TKhaos said:

Bit unfortunate that it's those very people that have been the most critical and vocal of ED, publicly slating them and releasing confidential information/documents, although it remains to be seen if they were genuine as some looked like a Sesame Street project gone wrong.

One Razbam dev in particular had to remove a number of posts from other forums because they were informed by users that were lawyers/solicitors that they were libellous. Although those posts were removed fairly quickly a large number of people had already seem them, some doing screenshots and it was being shared so it was out there for people to see and pass judgement.

Makes you wonder if ED would actually want anyone like that working directly for them, it's what made me laugh when people were suggesting offering them large amounts of money to defect from Razbam to ED after they publicity trashed the company.

In my opinion it would have been much easier and likely quicker to solve the ED/RB dispute and reform a working relationship of some kind if the RB devs hadn't stuck their oar in and tried trashing ED's reputation and using customers as tools to start a witch hunt.

Honestly, this it the greatest take away. Maybe they won't try and  litigate this in the court of public opinion in the future.

You know, something RB has done before.

[Oban]

7 hours ago, Nightdare said:

In this topic where we talked ad nauseum about business, contracts, property and accountability, you can be sure a part of the customers aren't gonna settle for pinky promises and sorry's anymore either

Oh but they do, and constantly bang on about "promises" made by ED and from 3rd part devs..

Not once have I ever read that ED will promise anything, whether it be a weapons platform, or a radar update..

I constantly read on YouTube video comments that "ED promised X,Y and Z" but when challenged to post a link to those promises they can't....because there's never been such promises.

Take a look at ED's first newsletter of 2024, it does use the word promise, but it's the context of how it was written...

"This year promises to be an exciting one", or words to those effects..and then goes on to discuss all the up and coming modules, and work, in other words the 2024 roadmap, and if you look at it, they've pretty much delivered everything they were aiming for, from a business perspective, they've achieved what they've set out to do.

However, the rabid ED haters out there, and there's plenty, keep saying ED promised this, ED promised that, they're no good, they can't deliver blah blah blah.

Then there is this nonesense

"No question ED took a big hit from this, but all 3rd parties are also burnt with the ensuing distrust "

And you know this because you've presonally spoken to all of their CEO's and Business managers to come to this conclusion?