waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Hammer1-1]

52 minutes ago, PaulToo said:

What exactly did Razbam do?

Peed on ED's carpet, apparently...

[Ignition]

7 hours ago, WipeUout said:

What is the contract saying if one party is breaching?  What are the remedies and consequences in the contract if there is a breach?  How can you suggest such a thing?  do you have access to that contract?  Let's be a little more patient, all those RB modules are working fine and we can enjoy them no problem. 

 

They work but without updates since 5 months. And the F-15E is not working as it should since it needs a lot of of development, I don't fly just to drop a bomb or shoot a missile.

4 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

It wouldnt set a good precedent for future problems with other developers should they do the exact same thing Razbam did. Why would you give your dog a treat if it urinates on your carpet?

Other 3rd parties will never know what exactly did Razbam.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Notso said:

That's ONE side of the story.

 ED is the only party pointing fingers in their official statements.  That sounds like damage control more than anything, imho.

I don’t read anything like that into the statements, but to each his own.  I could just as easily claim that bc Razbam hasn’t officially refuted the claim that they have somehow agreed that they breached.  Which would just as equally be nonsense.
 

Just bear in mind that it would be VERY risky for anyone to make a claim of breach if they did not have a good faith basis for doing so.  Which means to me that both sides have reasonable arguments in support of their claims and we are all just wasting our time guessing about it.  

Edited July 14, 2024 by wombat778

[primus_TR]

18 hours ago, Notso said:

Here's a crazy stupid idea - tell Nick to pay RB while this whol

There.  Fixed it for ya

[rob10]

22 hours ago, Notso said:

Here's a crazy idea - tell Nick to pay RB while this whole thing is being worked out like adults.  I'm betting RB getting paid and going back to work would go a LONG way to allowing all parties to reach a mutually beneficial solution.

I doubt there is enough trust/goodwill on either side for that to happen (no matter who is in the right).  Would Razbam agree to provide an update if ED promised to pay them once they did?  I really doubt it.  And by the same token I doubt ED is going to pay Razbam on a promise that they will deliver a new update.  No way this moves at this point without some serious legal actions/guarantees in the background.

[Ignition]

The main problem here for us, the people who want to just buy and play a video game about combat aircraft simulation, is that ED mixes a game with military grade contract stuff. We don't have anything to do with that stuff. Why we, the consumers of a game, also have to pay for a presumed IP infringement made by a 3rd party developer. If the contract said ED could held the money and not pay it was also saying I will hurt the community and I don't care. It should've been resolved in other way because this is not only between ED and Razbam, its also involving thousands of other people.

The business model of ED is not fine.

[RaisedByWolves]

21 hours ago, Notso said:

You’re missing the point. Put your lawyer hat down and look at like a human being. 

Sigh……

Lawyers aren't human beings.

[NineLine]

24 minutes ago, Ignition said:

The main problem here for us, the people who want to just buy and play a video game about combat aircraft simulation, is that ED mixes a game with military grade contract stuff. We don't have anything to do with that stuff. Why we, the consumers of a game, also have to pay for a presumed IP infringement made by a 3rd party developer. If the contract said ED could held the money and not pay it was also saying I will hurt the community and I don't care. It should've been resolved in other way because this is not only between ED and Razbam, its also involving thousands of other people.

The business model of ED is not fine.

It's not as simple as this, nor do you have all the information. This very much impacts the health of DCS and we would not be taking any action if it didn't. So I understand the confusion and anger about all this, and I understand the frustration and the impact it is having on all our customers but our goal is to resolve this for the health of all involved. 

[NineLine]

Thread cleaned again, once again some of you cannot help yourselves when it comes to wild speculation and conspiracy. Comment on official announcements and leave the other stuff out of this thread.

[JuiceIsLoose]

21 hours ago, NineLine said:

It's not as simple as this, nor do you have all the information. This very much impacts the health of DCS and we would not be taking any action if it didn't. So I understand the confusion and anger about all this, and I understand the frustration and the impact it is having on all our customers but our goal is to resolve this for the health of all involved. 

So then you are saying that this alleged IP infringement from RB is rooted only in DCS, and has nothing to do with that of MCS, or ED's other ventures?

[NineLine]

19 minutes ago, JuiceIsLoose said:

So then you are saying that this alleged IP infringement from RB is rooted only in DCS, and has nothing to do with that of MCS, or ED's other ventures?

I am saying all we know is in the official announcements, anything else is noise. I know everyone wants to figure this out more than what they have been told, but rooting around in all the sludge on the internet and certain reddit pages will not lead to anything but more frustration. 

[Horns]

23 hours ago, Ignition said:

The main problem here for us, the people who want to just buy and play a video game about combat aircraft simulation, is that ED mixes a game with military grade contract stuff. We don't have anything to do with that stuff. Why we, the consumers of a game, also have to pay for a presumed IP infringement made by a 3rd party developer. If the contract said ED could held the money and not pay it was also saying I will hurt the community and I don't care. It should've been resolved in other way because this is not only between ED and Razbam, its also involving thousands of other people.

The business model of ED is not fine.

We as consumers have been made to 'pay' because Razbam chose to cease support - if not for that, this wouldn't affect us regardless of the existence of other ED platforms. I agree this  dispute shouldn't affect consumers, but IMO this question should be directed to Razbam.

[NineLine]

1 hour ago, Horns said:

We as consumers have been made to 'pay' because Razbam chose to cease support - if not for that, this wouldn't affect us regardless of the existence of other ED platforms. I agree this  dispute shouldn't affect consumers, but IMO this question should be directed to Razbam.

I want to be careful here, it is the responsibility of both RAZBAM and ED to solve this now, a lot of people are getting off on playing the blame game but we, both ED and RAZBAM owe it to the customers to get it solved. So it's ok to ask both of us. 

[Horns]

1 minute ago, NineLine said:

I want to be careful here, it is the responsibility of both RAZBAM and ED to solve this now, a lot of people are getting off on playing the blame game but we, both ED and RAZBAM owe it to the customers to get it solved. So it's ok to ask both of us. 

Ok, point taken. Perhaps I should have said "this question should be directed to Razbam as well".

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, NineLine said:

I want to be careful here, it is the responsibility of both RAZBAM and ED to solve this now, a lot of people are getting off on playing the blame game but we, both ED and RAZBAM owe it to the customers to get it solved. So it's ok to ask both of us. 

Thank you, that is exactly the sentiment I want to hear.  I don’t know or really care what caused y’all to have a dispute or who is right or wrong. But us consumers definitely didn’t do anything wrong and we deserve better than the current situation.  I really hope both sides will put us first and suck up whatever issues you have in order to move forward 

[Pipe]

7 hours ago, NineLine said:

Thread cleaned again, once again some of you cannot help yourselves when it comes to wild speculation and conspiracy. Comment on official announcements and leave the other stuff out of this thread.

Well NineLine you should just close this thread. Since we are not going to get any official announcements, thus nothing really to comment on, is there?

I would say this dead horse has been flogged enough…

Edited July 15, 2024 by Pipe

[NineLine]

1 hour ago, Pipe said:

Well NineLine you should just close this thread. Since we are not going to get any official announcements, thus nothing really to comment on, is there?

I would say this dead horse has been flogged enough…

 

There is still room for discussion, and I hope very much we will get some more official announcements. 

[Paganus]

Something I hope all of us can agree on...

A clarification from ED management, sooner rather than later, about;

Future support for each 3rd party product sold, in case the 3rd party can not, or will not continue support themselves. 

Can it be done? Will it be done?

All 3rd party products should be clearly marked as to future support on their store page.

If ED can't support other teams software, so be it.

Let's just be honest about it up front. 

Why? Because things were said after the Hawk died. 

Vague reassurances will no longer suffice, at least not for me.

 

[nessuno0505]

Il 14/7/2024 at 19:24, NineLine ha scritto:

This very much impacts the health of DCS. 

I had asked for clarification on this statement. I don't think it's "speculation and conspiracy", it's a statement by ED's own people. However, my message was deleted with the last cleanup. Is it possible to have a comment on this? A simple "no" is acceptable as an answer, as long as it is shared and not covered up. Thank you.

[Dallenbach]

vor 24 Minuten schrieb nessuno0505:

I had asked for clarification on this statement. I don't think it's "speculation and conspiracy", it's a statement by ED's own people. However, my message was deleted with the last cleanup. Is it possible to have a comment on this? A simple "no" is acceptable as an answer, as long as it is shared and not covered up. Thank you.

Are you capable of learning? You will never get an unofficial verification here on the forum. This has been written so many times in this thread. So just write it off as stupid. By the way, I think the author wrote on the specific page to keep it there.

[westr]

11 hours ago, Paganus said:

Something I hope all of us can agree on...

A clarification from ED management, sooner rather than later, about;

Future support for each 3rd party product sold, in case the 3rd party can not, or will not continue support themselves. 

Can it be done? Will it be done?

All 3rd party products should be clearly marked as to future support on their store page.

If ED can't support other teams software, so be it.

Let's just be honest about it up front. 

Why? Because things were said after the Hawk died. 

Vague reassurances will no longer suffice, at least not for me.

 

Yes kind of agree with what you’re saying I’m not buying another 3rd party module until there is some clarity on future upgrade obligations. Ive held off despite the urge to buy the Kiowa but I’ve decided I’ve spent enough over the years and I’ll concentrate on my existing modules. 

[Guest]

14 hours ago, NineLine said:

There is still room for discussion, and I hope very much we will get some more official announcements. 

Recognizing that you can’t tell us much, imma push my luck and ask — how are you feeling about the progress of negotiations?  Are things moving forward (albeit slowly) in a generally positive direction? No worries if you can’t comment. 

[NineLine]

1 hour ago, wombat778 said:

Recognizing that you can’t tell us much, imma push my luck and ask — how are you feeling about the progress of negotiations?  Are things moving forward (albeit slowly) in a generally positive direction? No worries if you can’t comment. 

IMHO, the noise I am hearing recently, I am more hopeful today than maybe I was last week. I know that's a cheap and slim answer, and I wish I could tell more. 

8 hours ago, nessuno0505 said:

I had asked for clarification on this statement. I don't think it's "speculation and conspiracy", it's a statement by ED's own people. However, my message was deleted with the last cleanup. Is it possible to have a comment on this? A simple "no" is acceptable as an answer, as long as it is shared and not covered up. Thank you.

I really can't go into details sadly, I really wish I could because you guys are hearing a lot of stuff that is leading you on wild goose chases. A lot of what I am seeing out there in the wild is just a hint of what is going on without the real deep details. Sorry.

[afnav130]

I haven't been paying too much attention but just yesterday saw the "conversation". Makes things a whole lot clearer. A whole lot.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, NineLine said:

IMHO, the noise I am hearing recently, I am more hopeful today than maybe I was last week. I know that's a cheap and slim answer, and I wish I could tell more. 

That’s great actually. Tells me things are moving and not just in a stalemate.  Thank you.