Using Mk-82/84 based bombs in airburst mode and their effectiveness against infantry

[Waxi]

Is it possible in DCS to release Mk-82/84 based bombs like the GBU-12, GBU-38, etc. in airburst mode, i.e., so that these bombs explode above the ground which is often done in the real world to maximize their effect against infantry. If it possible to release these munitions in airburst mode in DCS, how is this done in the A-10 and what is the effectiveness of this release mode against infantry in DCS?

 

I could find an answer myself:

It seems that, according to the following thread, airburst fuses are currently not modeled in DCS, but they will be in the future (see below). 

In this YouTube video, Eagle Dynamics just announced that various fusing options, including airburst fuses like the DSU-33, are coming to DCS "soon":

 

Update

The new fusing options introduced in the video have been added with the latest patch (DCS World 2.9.5.55300 released on 2024-05-22). As I understand, warhead fragmentation is not modeled yet and is work in progress. Thus, I am not sure if delivering a bomb in airburst mode makes a difference compared to a standard fused delivery.

Edited May 24, 2024 by Waxi

[JAH09]

Hey I've been trying to use the Mk84 Air and cannot find any options for changing the fuse on it in the mission editor. You would think that they would get the fuse figured out before they released the air burst bombs. Do we have any idea to when this will be fixed?

[Yurgon]

2 hours ago, JAH09 said:

Hey I've been trying to use the Mk84 Air and cannot find any options for changing the fuse on it in the mission editor.

I'm not seeing an option to put the Mk-84 Air on the A-10C or A-10C II modules. Are you referring to said bomb on another aircraft?

Also, fuzing options have only been implemented for the WW II era bombs as far as I'm aware.

2 hours ago, JAH09 said:

You would think that they would get the fuse figured out before they released the air burst bombs.

They certainly would.

Is there any chance you're looking at the fall retarded Mk-84 Air, which for instance for the F-16C module is labeled "Mk-84 AIR (BSU-50) - 2000 lb GP Chute Retarded Bomb HD", and you're confusing the fall retarded bomb with an as of yet unreleased airburst fuze?

Speaking a which, a patch is planned for tomorrow that may or may not include the new fuzing options. It might be a good idea to check again after the patch drops.

Edited May 20, 2024 by Yurgon

[ASAP]

5 hours ago, JAH09 said:

Hey I've been trying to use the Mk84 Air and cannot find any options for changing the fuse on it in the mission editor. You would think that they would get the fuse figured out before they released the air burst bombs. Do we have any idea to when this will be fixed?

MK82/84 AIR is referring to Air Inflatable Retarder tail kits on the bomb, not the proximity sensing FMU-113. it is not short for airburst.

the pilot can select Nose, Tail, or Nose/Tail in the DSMS for fusing, If tail is selected the AIR will deploy, if only nose is selected it will be a free-fall bomb.

Edited May 21, 2024 by ASAP

[GrafRotz]

To my knowledge, high drags like snakeye and Air ballutes do not have a tail fuze. Thats what contains the retarding device.
Beside that, there might be tons of nose fuzing, but arent delays not usually within the tail if available to prevent damage to it while impacting?

[ASAP]

19 hours ago, GrafRotz said:

To my knowledge, high drags like snakeye and Air ballutes do not have a tail fuze. Thats what contains the retarding device.
Beside that, there might be tons of nose fuzing, but arent delays not usually within the tail if available to prevent damage to it while impacting?

There are many different combinations of fuses and bomb builds that are tailored to specific situations and aircraft so I cannot speak smartly to all of them, but for A-10 dumb bomb stuff... well there are still a lot of options, but a commonly used version is what I talked about in my last post. 

When talking about nose/tail fusing in DSMS specifically for older dumb bombs, the DSMS is really referring to how the pylon will function at weapon release not necessarily the fuze mechanism of the weapon itself, although the two are related. The only way the jet has to communicate with any bomb other than a GBU-38/54 is by pulling the lanyard rigged to the nose or the tail. The pylong has a forward and aft clamp that holds a retaining rings. The bomb has lanyards that connect to the nose fuse or tail fuse/kit. Those lanyards are routed through the retaining rings and typically mounted to the bomb lug. That way when the bomb falls from the jet, if the retaining ring is held by the pylon, the lanyard will be pulled from the fuse. If the pylong doesn't hold onto the retaining ring, the wire will not be pulled and just falls as is with the bomb.  When talking about the nose and tail fuzing in DSMS all you are telling the jet is if the clamp holding the retaining ring should stay clamped down, or release the ring. That will in turn either pull, or not pull the arming wires on the nose and tail fuse in the bomb. Those options apply even if you don't have an actual fuse in the nose or tail because you'd still need to pull the lanyward to deploy the tailkit.... hopefully that made sense, its easier to understand if you see a picture of it. With the GBU-38/54 on a 1760 bus the jet's computers are actually communicating directly with the bomb while its on the wing so that's different.

Buuut, there is still an aft explosive fuse in the back of AIR kit. If you drop the bomb with the AIR deployed or not would dictate different arm and fuse times than the m904 nose fuse in the nose so you can get safe seperation and still have it arm before impact. The tail kit would need a much shorter arming time because it will get safe separation faster, and it is going to impact the ground faster than a free fall dumb bomb.

generally you'd have a nose and tail fuse for redundancy in case the nose fuse is destroyed on impact. Typically, if you are going to delay a bomb, it's going to be a GBU-38 or a 54 with an FMU-152 fuse which is in the rear.

But the OP was talking about airbursting, which requires something like an FMU-113 or DSU-33 which are essentially radar altimeters in the nose of the bomb. Alternatively the really old school method is to have the nose fuse on a long tube that extends a few feet out in front of the bomb which causes it to burst a few feet above the ground. But those are not used anymore. 

Edited May 22, 2024 by ASAP

[Ready]

3 hours ago, ASAP said:

There are many different combinations of fuses and bomb builds that are tailored to specific situations and aircraft so I cannot speak smartly to all of them, but for A-10 dumb bomb stuff... well there are still a lot of options, but a commonly used version is what I talked about in my last post. 

When talking about nose/tail fusing in DSMS specifically for older dumb bombs, the DSMS is really referring to how the pylon will function at weapon release not necessarily the fuze mechanism of the weapon itself, although the two are related. The only way the jet has to communicate with any bomb other than a GBU-38/54 is by pulling the lanyard rigged to the nose or the tail. The pylong has a forward and aft clamp that holds a retaining rings. The bomb has lanyards that connect to the nose fuse or tail fuse/kit. Those lanyards are routed through the retaining rings and typically mounted to the bomb lug. That way when the bomb falls from the jet, if the retaining ring is held by the pylon, the lanyard will be pulled from the fuse. If the pylong doesn't hold onto the retaining ring, the wire will not be pulled and just falls as is with the bomb.  When talking about the nose and tail fuzing in DSMS all you are telling the jet is if the clamp holding the retaining ring should stay clamped down, or release the ring. That will in turn either pull, or not pull the arming wires on the nose and tail fuse in the bomb. Those options apply even if you don't have an actual fuse in the nose or tail because you'd still need to pull the lanyward to deploy the tailkit.... hopefully that made sense, its easier to understand if you see a picture of it. With the GBU-38/54 on a 1760 bus the jet's computers are actually communicating directly with the bomb while its on the wing so that's different.

Buuut, there is still an aft explosive fuse in the back of AIR kit. If you drop the bomb with the AIR deployed or not would dictate different arm and fuse times than the m904 nose fuse in the nose so you can get safe seperation and still have it arm before impact. The tail kit would need a much shorter arming time because it will get safe separation faster, and it is going to impact the ground faster than a free fall dumb bomb.

generally you'd have a nose and tail fuse for redundancy in case the nose fuse is destroyed on impact. Typically, if you are going to delay a bomb, it's going to be a GBU-38 or a 54 with an FMU-152 fuse which is in the rear.

But the OP was talking about airbursting, which requires something like an FMU-113 or DSU-33 which are essentially radar altimeters in the nose of the jet. Alternatively the really old school method is to have the nose fuse on a long tube that extends a few feet out in front of the bomb which causes it to burst a few feet above the ground. But those are not used anymore. 

Thanks for the explanation

[jaylw314]

21 hours ago, Yurgon said:

I'm not seeing an option to put the Mk-84 Air on the A-10C or A-10C II modules. Are you referring to said bomb on another aircraft?

IIRC, the fuze options for those are on some other modules, maybe the Hornet or Viper, I can't for the life of me remember which

Edited May 21, 2024 by jaylw314

[Silver_Dragon]

Has some points, Infantry has new animations on progress, but actualy ED dont talk about a "infantry" Damage Model. Other point has about the missing of fragmentation on weapons (on progress by ED). We dont know yet the features of capabilities of airbrust. Actualy the Mk-80 series has none implemented a fuze extensions to simulate airbrust, and the DSU-33 has none compatible with that bombs.

Has many points about the use yet of that bombs vs troops.

[Hobel]

Am 19.5.2024 um 15:58 schrieb Waxi:

Is it possible in DCS to release Mk-82/84 based bombs like the GBU-12, GBU-38, etc. in airburst mode, i.e., so that these bombs explode above the ground which is often done in the real world to maximize their effect against infantry. If it possible to release these munitions in airburst mode in DCS, how is this done in the A-10 and what is the effectiveness of this release mode against infantry in DCS?

 

I could find an answer myself:

It seems that, according to the following thread, airburst fuses are currently not modeled in DCS, but they will be in the future (see below). 

In this YouTube video, Eagle Dynamics just announced that various fusing options, including airburst fuses like the DSU-33, are coming to DCS "soon":

 

Update

The new fusing options introduced in the video have been added with the latest patch (DCS World 2.9.5.55300 released on 2024-05-22). As I understand, warhead fragmentation is not modeled yet and is work in progress. Thus, I am not sure if delivering a bomb in airburst mode makes a difference compared to a standard fused delivery.

 

I will test it again but in the last test the airburst against infantry has 20m more aoe with mk82