What did I think of Kiowa? It needs to improve in some areas!

[Vakarian]

Oh, I understood it and didn't comment on the optimization side of it (ask 10 people in the industry how to optimize stuff, you'll get at least 10 different answers). I was mainly talking about the "looks" as that's what most people care about and I'd say it's far from unusable as some people would like to portray it.

Can it be better, sure it can. Everything can be made better with some time put into it, question is is it worth it at that particular point in time.

[Mainstay]

If it’s good enough for you then congrats. For a lot of customers a sub par job of a so called “completed” module is just a big no no. 
 

Didn’t even know they reacted “we fly from inside the cockpit”…. Even more reason not to spend my money on them. 
 

A well.. their loss. 

[Kinkkujuustovoileipä]

This is getting a bit silly now, so I'm asking you to all stop being Cassandraic and take a step back.

Early Access does not refer to quality or bugs or even performance. It simply refers to the amount of completed features at release vs. the planned amount for the product. In that sense, the Kiowa is not considered Early Access since all the features we planned for the module are implemented with one or two exceptions that have already been discussed. Compare this to other modules where you're still waiting for various weapons or whatever feature five or six years later.

I want to be super clear here - I am not saying the module doesn't need improvement, or that there aren't issues to be looked at and addressed. I'm simply saying that arguing it is an Early Access release because of these issues is factually incorrect. Your definition of what Early Access means is not what is used by Polychop or Eagle Dynamics, or any software developer or game studio I've been a part of in my career. It is about delivery of planned features, that is all. Quality is not a *feature* (although I would absolutely agree the world would be better if it was, and I personally try to push that where I can - hence WHY the fixes are taking longer than you want).

As for "Didn’t even know they reacted “we fly from inside the cockpit”…. Even more reason not to spend my money on them." - I don't know where this came from, nor do I care. It's not my opinion, therefore as long as I am part of Polychop it's not fair to say it is the opinion OF Polychop. No matter what someone else may have said.

I've said this earlier, I will repeat it again:

We have listened to what you've said, we're aware of the issues and we are currently working out how to address them. I can't give you better answers than that because I am not the artist, I'm sorry.

All I can ask for now is patience. I know you don't have it. I certainly don't either 

[Rogue Trooper]

It is certainly good enough for me, again a VR user so I am sure It is the reason that I do not notice the graphics.

But flight wise... superb module! I would say a must for any one that wants to learn DCS choppers for the first time.

Edited August 27, 2024 by Rogue Trooper

[MAXsenna]

So the bottom line is, if the module was 10-20$ cheaper, most of people wouldn't complain about the bugs? Yeah right, I don't believe that for a second. Call me however you want, but it just looks to me most of the people are rear-end hurt because they had to pay full price outright.

I believe the MB-339 was also released out of EA. And users still complain about its price.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[MAXsenna]

As far as i remember, that claim about "it will be not in EA when released" was made before you joined the company and basically saved most of it's reputation.

So why don't you read kinkku's answers and give him the benefit of doubt at least for a few patch cycles, which he mentions. You were in awe and made a video about it when he released the new Gaz FM.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[RealDCSpilot]

Oh, be sure that i'm extremely happy that at least one guy at PC does care!
The thing is that in 15 years in DCS i've never seen any other 3rd party dev or ED themselves pulling that kind of stunts. (except the Hawk incident)
What makes DCS special for me is how developers spent ridiculous amounts of time in re-creating an aircraft as a digital twin of the real one. Never seen these "Making of" videos? All the effort alone with 3D scanning every detail and trying to put it into the virtual aircraft model. DCS is also about preserving and re-living military aviation history, at least for me. It makes every module a collectable, that's what i like spending money on, rewarding all the time, professionalism and effort that has been put into it. You don't get something like this anywhere else.
If some of you just like sitting in a cockpit and make boom boom, okay. Maybe a mod is also sufficient for that.
I know BN will delete this again but here you go:


There is no other DCS developer where an opinion like this is even possible or thinkable. If no one would make a fuzz about something like this we would see going DCS's quality standards going downhill pretty quickly. And DCS's foundations are already crumbling these days. As a long-term customer i'm really concerned.

Edited August 28, 2024 by RealDCSpilot

[ThorBrasil]

1 hour ago, RealDCSpilot said:

Oh, be sure that i'm extremely happy that at least one guy at PC does care!
The thing is that in 15 years in DCS i've never seen any other 3rd party dev or ED themselves pulling that kind of stunts. (except the Hawk incident)
What makes DCS special for me is how developers spent ridiculous amounts of time in re-creating an aircraft as a digital twin of the real one. Never seen these "Making of" videos? All the effort alone with 3D scanning every detail and trying to put it into the virtual aircraft model. DCS is also about preserving and re-living military aviation history, at least for me. It makes every module a collectable, that's what i like spending money on, rewarding all the time, professionalism and effort that has been put into it. You don't get something like this anywhere else.
If some of you just like sitting in a cockpit and make boom boom, okay. Maybe a mod is also sufficient for that.
I know BN will delete this again but here you go:


There is no other DCS developer where an opinion like this is even possible or thinkable. If no one would make a fuzz about something like this we would see going DCS's quality standards going downhill pretty quickly. And DCS's foundations are already crumbling these days. As a long-term customer i'm really concerned.

 

If Kiowa doesn't improve, Polychop's future will be compromised by the release of new modules because many people will stop buying their modules. I really hope Kiowa improves because the 3D model and textures are horrible. I keep seeing new modules being developed that I don't even need, but I'll end up buying them because the 3D model and textures are professional. The beauty and presentation of a product are the most important things when you want to sell a product. The MiG17 is a product that I don't need, but the beauty, care and details of the 3D model and its textures make me want to buy it because it makes me want to fly it just to admire its beauty. No one wants to date an ugly woman and the Kiowa is very ugly today.

https://stormbirds.blog/2024/08/20/red-star-provides-brief-mig-17-update/

https://stormbirds.blog/2024/01/01/red-star-simulations-mig-17-update/

 

 

 

[Hiob]

2 hours ago, ThorBrasil said:

because the 3D model and textures are horrible.

that's a little bit exaggerated, don't you think?

Plenty of things that could be improved in the Kiowa (mainly sounds for me), but the visuals are the least of my concerns.

[freehand]

7 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

Oh, be sure that i'm extremely happy that at least one guy at PC does care!
The thing is that in 15 years in DCS i've never seen any other 3rd party dev or ED themselves pulling that kind of stunts. (except the Hawk incident)
What makes DCS special for me is how developers spent ridiculous amounts of time in re-creating an aircraft as a digital twin of the real one. Never seen these "Making of" videos? All the effort alone with 3D scanning every detail and trying to put it into the virtual aircraft model. DCS is also about preserving and re-living military aviation history, at least for me. It makes every module a collectable, that's what i like spending money on, rewarding all the time, professionalism and effort that has been put into it. You don't get something like this anywhere else.
If some of you just like sitting in a cockpit and make boom boom, okay. Maybe a mod is also sufficient for that.
I know BN will delete this again but here you go:


There is no other DCS developer where an opinion like this is even possible or thinkable. If no one would make a fuzz about something like this we would see going DCS's quality standards going downhill pretty quickly. And DCS's foundations are already crumbling these days. As a long-term customer I'm really concerned.

 

I know nothing of the personal side of PC & what happened I am sure it was just stress release after working on the module for so many years hoping for release.

Edit: I miss read the above from DC so corrected.

Edited August 28, 2024 by freehand

[MAXsenna]

No one wants to date an ugly woman and the Kiowa is very ugly today.

A pig with makeup is still a pig. A woman without makeup can still be beautiful.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

Oh, be sure that i'm extremely happy that at least one guy at PC does care!

I do understand your other points, and I had forgotten about that comment.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[MAXsenna]

but must say a little surprised seeing a finger from a developer lol

Not how Discord works. It's not even the correct emoji. It's actually 8 others users pointing their index "this" in support.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[freehand]

21 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

 

 

Not how Discord works. It's not even the correct emoji. It's actually 8 others users pointing their index "this" in support.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

 

ah I see don't use discord.

[Mainstay]

9 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

 

 

O wow...... the arrogance

Whatever happened to customer is king? I am sorry but if this is a structural part of entitlement within their business model i think polychop is done in the near future.

I didnt buy their product by choice (I learned my lesson with the Gazelle) before getting a good picture, and voila!

Says a lot that people that did buy your product are already shifting to "not gonna spend my money on the next one", why this way of reacting?

@Kinkkujuustovoileipä Looks like you guys have some stuff to talk about internally....

 

Come on guys get back on track and make this work.

Edited August 28, 2024 by Mainstay

[Retnek]

7 hours ago, ThorBrasil said:

If Kiowa doesn't improve, Polychop's future will be compromised by the release of new modules because many people will stop buying their modules. I really hope Kiowa improves because the 3D model and textures are horrible. ...

 

Nothing new since 5th of June and still on his crusade for the cosmetics, really? At least he made some friends on that journey, too. If the notorious moaners here spent the same time flying the Kiowa than whining in the forums they'll be well below 50 Cent per hour of flight-time. Extremely low operational costs for such an incredibly complex module, right? Polychop, even the most pig-headed critics from time to time point on errors worth your time. Try to see it that way, please.

"Son, what's wrong with your present? You got the model-railway you asked for - a platinum-beginners set! Big locomotive, 20 waggons, 30 m of tracks, 10 switches and a dozen buildings - so what?" - "The locomotive is blue, NOT RED!"

[Mainstay]

9 minutes ago, Retnek said:

Nothing new since 5th of June and still on his crusade for the cosmetics, really? At least he made some friends on that journey, too. If the notorious moaners here spent the same time flying the Kiowa than whining in the forums they'll be well below 50 Cent per hour of flight-time. Extremely low operational costs for such an incredibly complex module, right? Polychop, even the most pig-headed critics from time to time point on errors worth your time. Try to see it that way, please.

"Son, what's wrong with your present? You got the model-railway you asked for - a platinum-beginners set! Big locomotive, 20 waggons, 30 m of tracks, 10 switches and a dozen buildings - so what?" - "The locomotive is blue, NOT RED!"

Call us moaners or other things that make us look bad. I truly dont care because your not my friend nor will you ever be and the one im focused one is a comnpany because if they improve i will spend money on the product. English is not my first language so im not gonna start a discussion if its wrong or right to vent you frustration which basically comes from caring to see product improvement. Crusaders, moaners, whiners give it a name... i call it feedback.     

[ThorBrasil]

1 hour ago, Retnek said:

Nothing new since 5th of June and still on his crusade for the cosmetics, really? At least he made some friends on that journey, too. If the notorious moaners here spent the same time flying the Kiowa than whining in the forums they'll be well below 50 Cent per hour of flight-time. Extremely low operational costs for such an incredibly complex module, right? Polychop, even the most pig-headed critics from time to time point on errors worth your time. Try to see it that way, please.

"Son, what's wrong with your present? You got the model-railway you asked for - a platinum-beginners set! Big locomotive, 20 waggons, 30 m of tracks, 10 switches and a dozen buildings - so what?" - "The locomotive is blue, NOT RED!"

Man, I bought the module and no one gave it to me for free. The module is indeed below DCS standards and I don't know how ED allowed it to come out in this state at full price. It doesn't even look like a module released in 2024, but it looks like something released 15 years ago. It doesn't meet ED and other third-party standards. Now, if you think it's bad that I say this, just ignore it. I don't recommend this module to anyone in its current state. It's better for the person to buy the Mi-24, Apache or even the Chinook and they'll be happier. Anyway! If you think it's bad, ignore me.

[Gunnar81]

4 hours ago, ThorBrasil said:

Man, I bought the module and no one gave it to me for free. The module is indeed below DCS standards and I don't know how ED allowed it to come out in this state at full price. It doesn't even look like a module released in 2024, but it looks like something released 15 years ago. It doesn't meet ED and other third-party standards. Now, if you think it's bad that I say this, just ignore it. I don't recommend this module to anyone in its current state. It's better for the person to buy the Mi-24, Apache or even the Chinook and they'll be happier. Anyway! If you think it's bad, ignore me.

Now you are just being silly and you know it! ... Looks like a 15 year old module, come on dude. I think its time to go get your glasses checked, skip buying the next couple modules and complaining about them and save the money for some new lenses!

[ThorBrasil]

41 minutes ago, Gunnar81 said:

Now you are just being silly and you know it! ... Looks like a 15 year old module, come on dude. I think its time to go get your glasses checked, skip buying the next couple modules and complaining about them and save the money for some new lenses!

[Hotdognz]

Ha ha so many moaners in here about the 3D model, its actually quite funny now.

Everyday I fly the Kiowa and everyday I enjoy it, it was way more feature complete than other DCS helicopter release in the last 3 years and I got from it what Polychop promised me, as for the 3 model yeh ok, its not up to par with the latest and greatest like the Apache or Chinook, but do I care, not at all, its great fun to fly and use in missions and I'm having a blast with it, well worth my $70 worth so far with the fun I have had with it SP and MP.

Why dont you guys who continue to moan about its 3D model start flying it from inside (like real pilots would) and use it in missions its suited for, I believe you might actually enjoy it for the purpose you purchased it for, unless of course you only buy these modules so you can swing around the outside with a camera all the time, each to his own I guess.

Looking forward to the update for it when it drops ate some point in the future, untill then on with the fun.

[ThorBrasil]

7 hours ago, Hotdognz said:

Ha ha so many moaners in here about the 3D model, its actually quite funny now.

Everyday I fly the Kiowa and everyday I enjoy it, it was way more feature complete than other DCS helicopter release in the last 3 years and I got from it what Polychop promised me, as for the 3 model yeh ok, its not up to par with the latest and greatest like the Apache or Chinook, but do I care, not at all, its great fun to fly and use in missions and I'm having a blast with it, well worth my $70 worth so far with the fun I have had with it SP and MP.

Why dont you guys who continue to moan about its 3D model start flying it from inside (like real pilots would) and use it in missions its suited for, I believe you might actually enjoy it for the purpose you purchased it for, unless of course you only buy these modules so you can swing around the outside with a camera all the time, each to his own I guess.

Looking forward to the update for it when it drops ate some point in the future, untill then on with the fun.

How did you come to this conclusion that the people who come here to give their feedback don't fly Kiowa? Did you do a survey? Did you go to where everyone lives to see if they are flying?

[Hotdognz]

26 minutes ago, ThorBrasil said:

How did you come to this conclusion that the people who come here to give their feedback don't fly Kiowa? Did you do a survey? Did you go to where everyone lives to see if they are flying?

There comes a point in the thread that its not feedback any more, it just seems to be moaning the same point over and over again, we get it you dont like the 3D model and textures.

I have no evidence if you do or don't, and I don't really care TBH.

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

I hope the next patch is a sizable list of fixes. They owe us that after the last two patches were small and nil.

I am also wondering what the point is of reporting bugs in the bugs section here. I don't think PC visits this forum often enough. Their discord actually has a section for bugs and it's a long list. 

Edited August 29, 2024 by GrEaSeLiTeNiN

[freehand]

This thread has become a comedy sketch.

[dresoccer4]

+1 to all the above from all sides

Edited August 29, 2024 by dresoccer4