Is the Phantom fun to fly?

[DimSim]

Not a troll question. I've never had any personal interest in the F-4 Phantom, unlike the Harrier, Mirage, Warthog and Tomcat, which I've bought and enjoyed a lot.

The question is, does the plane have fun flight dynamics and something special about it that just makes it fun to fly, even outside of combat?

I ask because the aircraft looks amazingly detailed and a labor of love. Yet I'm afraid that if I did purchase it, it would sit idle in my hangar. I'll certainly give it a try if it participates in the trial program.

[Hiob]

It is even less modern (meaning, less ergonomic in cockpit design - borderline awkward at times) than the Tomcat. It flies like a brick (meaning, without sufficiant thrust it drops like stone on approach), and  so on. It's pure steam punk! 

So, yes - it is glorious!* A lot of work but rewarding.

(*If you like working hard for your results)

From the aircraft you mentioned - forget everything but the Tomcat (unless you meant the mirage F1**). They're not comparable. And from the Tomcat, you can substract 50% of comfort functions.

You don't have a HUD e.g. - only a pipper. You have to move your head and body if you want to have chance at seeing your flaps and gear indicators......

You have no flight path marker whatsoever. Took me ages to learn to land the darn thing. Even though I have no problems landing Warbirds.  But once I learned it (keep the speed on the highish side), boy was I happy! 

(**which would come closest to the F-4 in regards to overall vibe)

Edited July 31, 2024 by Hiob

[Hikaruncat]

It's so, so much fun.

I've been waiting for this plane for so many years.

I'm Japanese, and there's a manga in Japan called "Phantom Burai."

I fell in love with the Phantom through this manga.

It's difficult to fly, but it's also a lot of fun to learn.

*If the DCS replay was more reliable, I'd be able to enjoy watching the replay, but that's the only thing that's disappointing.

 

I loved it so much that I immediately made a skin. XD

[Tom Kazansky]

another YES here.

[TOViper]

1 hour ago, DimSim said:

The question is, does the plane have fun flight dynamics and something special about it that just makes it fun to fly, even outside of combat?

100% YES, it has.

[Mr_sukebe]

Oh yes.  It's awesome.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not very good in it, and it takes some effort.  I'm MUCH less effective than say in an F18.  

For all that, it's brill.

[G.J.S]

Echoing those before me, yes it is great fun!
The combat aspect has its own rewards, but I’m more than happy just doing some cross country via nav aids, pattern work at an airfield somewhere, before a return and more pattern work at my initial lift off point. It’s quite pleasing.

The biggest draw - and this is my own view - is that it’s an honest aircraft. Fly smoothly and it will complement you immensely.
Stray too far and it will bite.

Everything you need to know is there, no need to push through several MFD pages. You only need the pipper up when you intend to use a weapon, otherwise just turn it to standby and just fly!

[RevampedGrunt]

The Phantom easily became my favorite aircraft. Prior, my most used module was the AH-64 at 51 hours, which technically it still is (for now). The Phantom is at 50 hours now for me since the release. 

[Castor Troy]

My favorite thing to do in DCS right now, is jump in the Phantom and go SAM hunting with shrikes. You have to get right up under a SAMS nose to engage, and it can get pretty dicey.

[ValhallaAB]

I bought it because I had spare money and lots of free time, after work and other things keeping me busy I got the time to properly fly it for some nights and it's a blast. I didn't think I would be able to use the Mk-82's to plink tanks like I am used to in the F-14 because of my love for CCIP. But the phantom surprised me by showing me that getting accurate with the DT delivery is not impossible. Also love the modeling work and detail. I can fly this thing for a while to come.

[Arecibo]

It's the first plane I bought for DCS and I absolutely love it. Although I still have to learn combat, just starting her up and cruising around these incredible maps is a fantastic experience in itself. The attention to detail is incredible, and although the ergonomics are for crap, most of what you need is within reach in-flight. It has a feel you just don't get with the F-16 or F-14, which I bought in the recent sale (Although these are great too!).

Edited August 1, 2024 by Arecibo

[carbolicus]

It’s a truly great module and easily my favourite to fly.  It certainly feels authentic to me, and I’m hoping an old mate who used to fly Phantoms will be able to come round and confirm this.

No glass cockpit means it’s relatively simple to set up nav aids etc, and you don’t have complex software menus to work through - the A10C does my head in from that aspect!

I’m not a typical DCS user as I’m not that interested in combat, but it’s incredibly satisfying to set up cross-country navexes using TACANs and ILS and fly them in bad weather.  No moving maps etc means you have to do a lot more mental arithmetic than in modern aircraft. It’s a genuine flying experience.

[Oesau]

2 hours ago, carbolicus said:

typical DCS user as I’m not that interested in combat, but it’s incredibly satisfying to set up cross-country navexes using TACANs and ILS and fly them in bad weather.  No moving maps etc means you have to do a lot more mental arithmetic than in modern aircraft. It’s a genuine flying experience.

Think you find that there are many of us that like to do just that - sure I've got combat missions in the folder but I actually spend more time just flying it around, learning to fly it trimmed out, straight and level at set speeds etc etc. 

[Iron Sights]

She is fun to fly, but can also bring a lot of ordnance to target. It’s all old school, but it does work and it is a challenge. I would recommend it to anyone who enjoys a challenge, but just enough tech to make it a tad easier. So you are not bombing by hand or just using guns in a dogfight, but it also doesn’t have the latest toys to make it too easy. Fun to fly and to fight. I spend time just flying it around sometimes as well. Finally, I would say is it’s a brute of a plane, which adds to the reward of sticking that landing or hitting that target. Get it, you won’t be disappointed.

Edited August 2, 2024 by Iron Sights

[DimSim]

Thank you all responders. I'm hearing a lot of love for this aircraft and its flight characteristics.

[Hiob]

10 hours ago, DimSim said:

Thank you all responders. I'm hearing a lot of love for this aircraft and its flight characteristics.

It‘s a wonderful aircraft and module!

However - know youself! If you are more into electric jets like Viper or Hornet, reconsider. It IS heavy metal and steam gauges.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

On 7/31/2024 at 5:11 AM, DimSim said:

does the plane have fun flight dynamics and something special about it that just makes it fun to fly, even outside of combat?

 

So, the flight begins after a taxi to the threshold of the runway. The ground handling feels quite responsive for an aircraft of this age and size.

You hold in brakes, throttle up to 85%, and let go of the brakes. You start rolling, move the throttle into afterburner, and gently pulling the stick full back. When the nose starts to rise, gently bring the stick back to center, and the aircraft will rotate on its own. Pitch for 10 degrees of nose up attitude and build up airspeed. The moment you establish a positive climb, gear comes up. At 200 knots, you're bringing up the flaps.

At about 300 knots, come out of burner and at 350 use pitch to maintain that airspeed on climb out.

The Phantom, despite its immensity, feels quite light in controls. You're looking at a maneuvering speed of about 450 knots. It rates pretty well for 3rd gen, but the climb performance can only be described as obscene. Pitch for 45 degrees, go full burner, and you'll be getting noise complaints from the ISS. Those J79s, when combined together, produce a disgusting amount of power and it shows. You can yank hard, wind down your airspeed indicator, but then you can wind it right back up by just letting the nose down a little, if at all. The performance sounds down right 4th gen, but the controls still feel subject to inertia and still hold a weight to them.

It absolutely loves the vertical, pure and simple.

Landing is also fairly straight forward. Below 250 knots, drop gear. 220, flaps. Maintain level flight and keep looking over your shoulder. The moment your wingtip is pointing at the end of the runway, start your base turn. Maintain on speed AoA and it feels like you'll be more dependent on rudder here than roll. Trim the jet for on speed for final so you just need to mess with throttles. You're looking at about 140 knots to 160 knots for approach speed, dependent on weight. And she even sets herself down without much effort.

In short, the Phantom is a joy to fly. It'll behave well at low speeds if you're treat it with care and then become an absolute monster once you open the throttle.

Edited August 3, 2024 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[MichaelJWP15]

I have to agree with the postiive comments, I find it one of the most fun aircraft to actually just fly in DCS (and I have most modules). The visual and audio feedback when pushing the envelope is extremely well done, and when both engines go into burner you really feel the push.

In VR, with good sound, the cockpit is *so* immersive. I really want to try it with force feedback but don't have one yet, apparently its remarkable.

[Spurts]

On 8/1/2024 at 4:23 AM, Castor Troy said:

My favorite thing to do in DCS right now, is jump in the Phantom and go SAM hunting with shrikes. You have to get right up under a SAMS nose to engage, and it can get pretty dicey.

funny, my favorite thing to do is SAM hunting with bombs.  Okay okay, that only works against the SA-10 and a few other older systems. SA-11s eat my lunch when I try.

 

Also, why is everyone misspelling "Phun to Phly"?  I jest.

 

Show me another module where you can carry 22 bombs and 8 AAMs. This module is extremely "Phun" 

[aaronwhite]

I'll throw in my 2 cents. For me, the F-14 announced and I was like Eh, it's the F-14. Don't get me wrong. The F-14 is an impressive plane and it's an incredible feat of engineering. But it was primarily an interceptor and as someone that's never been good at A2A, the announcement didn't really do anything for me. But I followed the development, and as someone who always enjoyed the ground attack side of things, the Viggen was a blast to fly and was an incredibly fun aircraft that I wouldn't have expected to enjoy an early cold war strike aircraft as much as I did. But the Viggen was fun, and the work Heatblur did to make the thing feel alive, and to bring a really unique aircraft to life was too much to ignore. Following the F-14 development, I couldn't help but be impressed. The 3D model was incredible and the more I learned about Jester, the more impressed I was with the work that went into it. I figured I wasn't going to fly it a ton, but it could still be fun, and I wanted to support a solid developer in DCS, so I picked up the F-14 on pre-order. As expected, I liked the F-14, but I never did really fly it enough to learn the thing. Admittedly, the helicopter side of things started pulling me in around this time, so it was just tough to make time to fly the F-14 as I was awful at A2A, and the F-14 was primarily an A2A plane.

Fast forward to the F-4 announcement, and I had a bit of a similar feeling. I never really loved the F-4 as a kid, didn't really read cool stories of the F-4 and just always associated it with Vietnam. But, as before, the more I followed Heatblur's updates on Jester, the insane modeling detail of the radar in game, the systems, hydraulics, all sorts of things, the more I was getting that same impressed feeling as before. I still wasn't sure if I would have fun with it, but I pre-ordered it again, because at worst I support a really good developer who constantly finds new ways to push the envelope in what's possible within DCS, and I'm sure DCS gets a portion as well, so three birds with one AIM-7 or something.

When the F-4 did finally release, and I fixed my computer issues, I started having a blast with it. I'm still terrible at A2A, and the F-4 feels like even more of a dog than the F-14 where I can at least sometimes get behind a bad guy and lob a missile their way, but the ground attack possibilities had me intrigued, and the feel of flying the thing was such a fun challenge. I learned the startup right away, learned how to take off, and instantly fell in love with the way it feels to fly the thing. You really feel like you're stuck in an old airframe that rattles and has a cockpit setup for a world before what I'm used to. I don't have all of the supports I'm used to, like an easy to use radar that's super powerful and can pick multiple targets out and easily display them for me. I don't have the MFD's and the HUD to give me information...but I was still loving it. It was a lot like the Mi-24. What at times feels like an ancient relic, but also fun and dangerous enough that you can understand why they are still operational around the world. 

I've been working on getting good at landing for weeks now, taking off on my little self-created mission on Cyprus to bomb targets, or rifle off some Mavericks, then coming back to try my hand at landing, and as terrible as I am, I'm still having a blast. 

TL;DR: Even if you don't love Cold War jets, you might still love the Phantom. It really replicates feeling like you're actually operating an old plane, you feel like you have to work for everything, and nothing's really easily done, but at the same time, nothing's super complex. You have to do a lot of things to execute one simple thing, but it feels fun and rewarding. The flight model feels great. You understand why the F-4 was unlovingly referred to as a "Brick with wings" but you also appreciate the raw power of those engines when you dump your throttle all the way forward and rapidly climb until you're leaving a contrail behind you and leveling out. 

[Kalasnkova74]

Perhaps this is a personal perspective shared by no one else. But HBs brought the F-4E to life in a way that makes so many war stories about the Cold War so much more understandable.

Example: it’s one thing to read about the Israeli Air Force’s exploits in books like Ghosts of Atonement , documenting Phantom II/ Kurnass sorties the October 1973 war. It’s another matter to set up an airfield mission at the Sinai map using realistic SAM and Egyptian combat air patrols, fly it, and truly gain a personal scope of just how mother*****ing difficult their jobs were. Which they did, day in and day out, day and night. Short of a time machine , HBs Phantom II will give you the closest feeling of what those crews (and their contemporaries in the USAF and elsewhere) experienced. 

I don’t care about some dood shooting 3 MiGs in a Tomcat. Big whup. 

Let’s see a movie about the Phantom II crews who loft bombed SA-6s at night using a low level ingress on instruments and sheer guts. It’s a different dimension of air combat IMO vs slinging AIM-120s at a HUD cursor or plopping GPS bombs on a tank from the bozosphere

Edited August 9, 2024 by Kalasnkova74

[badger7966]

Its a mofo...but a real nice bird to fly...Im biased cuz it was always my favorite fighter....Its fun yes...its hard ....qiute a bit for me....but its fantastic.,

[freehand]

op Depends what floats your boat but when a new module comes out it goes along the lines of "This is my all time favourite plane bla bla bla" because some users are like lemming.

Watch some videos & make your own mind up for me yes is fun but the honeymoon period always ends the same way for me as I am a hornet man but then I like mod cons.

 

 

Edited August 17, 2024 by freehand