wip Dark, dirty glass and canopy reflection

[Michal]

I can't see a thing from A8 after last updates. I certain lights condition is imposible to see out. I had to jettison canopy on PO server last evening just to not crash  I compared it with D9, 51, 47 and Spit and they seem fine. 

[Michal]

Still present in DCS 2.9.7.58923

[LeCuvier]

I changed the option "Canopy Reflections" on the "System" to 0 (zero). This reduces the reflections significantly.
With that setting I would expect no reflections at all, but it seems to make a significant difference anyway.

[Doughguy]

imho, the dirt is over done. Canopies were cleaned before any misson.

The flickerin is cause by the two canopy glass shells that conflict rendering, hence they flicker. Alpha layer sorting iirc.

You can see two geometries if you partially stick your head through the glass.

[Michal]

All screenshots above are with Canopy reflection slider on "0". Slider works for example in F16, but I can not see difference in Anton.

Edited August 10 by Michal

[Ghost79]

Agree with the OP, very glary cockpit and yes, on one mission i jettisoned it completely.

Edited August 13 by Ghost79

[Michal]

Problem remains after last update. Reflections are visible in hangar even in clouds  I lost Spitfire in my gunsight yesterday on PO because front glass is so dirty. That really suck...

[Nealius]

Reflections zero, visibility from 4 o'clock to 8 o'clock is trashed by these reflections

 

 

Edited September 29 by Nealius

[PawlaczGMD]

Yeah, reflections here are overcooked, kill visibility, and just don't look good. 

[Nealius]

They're not even in the right place. Those reflections should be showing the aft of the seat and whatever is in that compartment, not the front of the seat. The reflection as pictured would be physically impossible.

Edited September 30 by Nealius

[NineLine]

We are working on some more tuning of reflections for options to allow people to tune on their own. 

Positioning is what it is, we cannot do full-on live reflections and expect the game to run at a decent FPS. 

[--CHILLI--]

It has now been 5 moths since the introduction of this bug. What does the community have to do to get this resolved? If this were the f-16 canopy it would have been patched instantly.

[LeCuvier]

On 10/9/2024 at 6:27 PM, NineLine said:

We are working on some more tuning of reflections for options to allow people to tune on their own. 

Positioning is what it is, we cannot do full-on live reflections and expect the game to run at a decent FPS. 

I'll be happy to tune the reflections all the way off. I certainly don't want to buy a new computer just to get reflections that make it more difficult to spot my targets.

[Scoll]

On 11/25/2024 at 12:30 AM, --CHILLI-- said:

It has now been 5 moths since the introduction of this bug. What does the community have to do to get this resolved? If this were the f-16 canopy it would have been patched instantly.

Sorry to say that but you are wrong  : this bug was intrduced in 2.7.1.7139 version in June 2021, 3 1/2 years now ! Almost same wrong reflections on D9 and A8

New dcs bug fix rule ; reflections bug ? remove reflections ! Simple !

I had, in June 2021, received a completely diifferent reply from Nineline : "They will all eventually be updated to the new dynamic reflections like the Hind." and "Consider cockpit reflections a WIP as we move towards dynamic reflections, so for any inconvenience as we do so."

Given today Nineline response, this bug will never be fixed.

Edited November 26 by Scoll
precision

[--CHILLI--]

To whom it may concern. After todays patch this bug is still present, severely degrading the usability of this module.

[Lixma 06]

Look at the real thing. Reflections & distortion everywhere.

I'll never understand why people want to fly around as if they're in an open-cockpit.

[peachmonkey]

17 minutes ago, Lixma 06 said:

Look at the real thing. Reflections & distortion everywhere.

I'll never understand why people want to fly around as if they're in an open-cockpit.

MP snap-to-6 backwards flying point chasers.

[LeCuvier]

20 hours ago, Lixma 06 said:

I'll never understand why people want to fly around as if they're in an open-cockpit.

You don't need to understand. But with a computer screen trying to show "the world" in a 2-dimensional display it's hard enough for most of us without these eyesores. .

[Nirvi]

On 12/4/2024 at 8:28 PM, Lixma 06 said:

Look at the real thing. Reflections & distortion everywhere.

I'll never understand why people want to fly around as if they're in an open-cockpit.

So you say reflections like this are normal and realistic?

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxSAQ6F-oC5O3ParlFq_KNqKvwjCyr2YxW?si=ji24bqK5pkbfMjaO

[Lixma 06]

1 hour ago, Nirvi said:

So you say reflections like this are normal and realistic?

No.

Dynamic reflections are still in their infancy and so the big red ACHTUNG sticker will probably look weird for a while (unless it's removed from the seat, or a virtual pilot is modelled to cover it)

But they are on the right track; and they are more realistic than having none at all.

[Scoll]

3 1/2 years... "infancy" ? no, mom and dad haven't met yet ! We don't see any track anywhere.

[Monkey21]

On 12/5/2024 at 10:22 PM, Lixma 06 said:

No.

Dynamic reflections are still in their infancy and so the big red ACHTUNG sticker will probably look weird for a while (unless it's removed from the seat, or a virtual pilot is modelled to cover it)

But they are on the right track; and they are more realistic than having none at all.

Depends on what your interpretation of "realistic" is;

If you think it's what a camera sees when it focuses on a pane of perspex then sure, the reflections are realistic.

If you think it's what a human eye sees when it focuses on the world beyond the canopy, then they're not.

The point is that yes, everyone is aware that smooth surfaces (like the canopy of the FW190 A8) reflect light, but pilots focus their eyes on what they're actually looking at, and that means the canopy is not in focus, blurring and diminishing the reflections to the point of insignificance. Anyone who's ever taken a photograph through a window and been disappointed with the result knows what I'm talking about.

[Lixma 06]

4 hours ago, Monkey21 said:

If you think it's what a human eye sees when it focuses on the world beyond the canopy, then they're not.

That doesn't mean the reflections aren't really there; or shouldn't be there.

Quote

...pilots focus their eyes on what they're actually looking at, and that means the canopy is not in focus, blurring and diminishing the reflections to the point of insignificance. 

And when you're in a dogfight the same thing happens.

When driving/racing in the rain your focus is absolutely not on the rain, spray, wipers etc; you ignore all that. In a sense you don't see it. But just because we're hardwired to ignore all that chaos obstructing our view and focus on our target doesn't mean we should therefore remove those obstructive elements.

Look at the distortion at the edges of the canopy here...

I think if ED or other devs start incorporating this kind of effect into their modules it'll be a great boost to overall realism (and look good too).

But I guarantee within one day there will be mods available to 'fix' it. 

I want ED to resist the voices who would happily see the removal of every ounce of Perspex from aircraft canopies, and lean on the side of realism, which means of course we might find ourselves occasionally inconvenienced by glare/distortion/reflections.

 

[LeCuvier]

6 hours ago, Lixma 06 said:

...I want ED to resist the voices who would happily see the removal of every ounce of Perspex from aircraft canopies, and lean on the side of realism, which means of course we might find ourselves occasionally inconvenienced by glare/distortion/reflections.

 

I belong to the people who want to get rid of all reflections for myself . That's because...

1. I'm almost 80 and my eyes are not what they used to be. So everything that reduces visibility puts extra strain on my eyes and brain, and reduces the fun.
2. These effects require processing power, and I'm not willing to pay for ever more hardware performance and the questionable benefit of seeing less clearly.

I'm happy if I can eliminate these disturbances for myself via some setting, and let other people enjoy the realism of reflections.

[Slippa]

Would be good to have the option to sort it out. Put it on a slider or something.

I fly with the lid open when it bothers me.